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  1. #1

    EB5 Immigrant Investor Visa Program @ Sugarbush

    Saw Win on the news tonight, and my feelings are mixed on this program.
    So I am interested in others views on this topic.

    Several things bother me about this program... From EB5Sugarbush.com..

    Obtaining legal permanent resident status (“Green Card”) in the United States for you and your family can be as simple as making a one time investment of $500,000. And, these immigrant visas are issued as quickly as nine to twelve months.
    Seems to me you can buy a green card if you have the money. I work with several H1B people who have no such advantage. They work hard and contribute to the local economy and wait years for a green card sponsor.

    If I was in Private Equity firm or VC or Hedge fund, I would ask for some equity stake, reasonable return or influence on management operations to get my ROI. No such benefits are listed here.

    Our approved structure provides the greatest flexibility to our participating investors, including:

    •No English language requirement.
    •No minimum education requirement.
    •No management experience.
    •Investment based in real estate ownership and commercial property development.
    •Residency requirement of only five or six months per year in the United States.
    •Live, work or retire anywhere in the United States.
    •Residence visas for investor and immediate family.
    •Investment capital can come from gift, loan, inheritance, business ownership or any other lawful activities.
    •Investment funds held in protected escrow account until USCIS approval.
    •Eligible for US citizenship in only five years



    The other thing that bothers me is the "buy local" movement here in Vermont and the US lately. Why can't the capital be raised from the Vermonters? I suspect the cost of funds from Freshtracks capital, US investors is higher than the EB5, because the green card is worth a LOT of money.


    Lastly, is this what we really want in our local economy? We all know foreign investors own the Chrysler building in New York and other key assets of the country. But Jay and Sugarbush? really?


    Looking forward to opposite opinions, I like to hear the other side of this issue.

  2. #2
    Are you kidding me??? Someone wants to invest money in our country and this is a problem??? You have people buuying imports all the time and sending money out of the country,... in this case money is coming back into our country supporting the local economy of Warren VT. I only wish more of this were going on.

  3. #3

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    Tim,

    I appreciate your question, but I do not think that you understand this program. Senator Leahy said it best today. "For years we have been sending dollars and jobs overseas. Now we are attracting foreign capital to either save of create jobs in The United States. This is a win-win." (no pun intended). All of us came from parents or grandparents who migrated to the USA to become citizens. The EB-5 program was established to help people who want to become full citizens of the USA obtain a green card faster than they might otherwise do. Once one has a green card, that person pays US income tax on their global income like all other US citizens. Later that green card can lead to full citizenship.

    Investors in the EB-5 program are just that - investors. They put their money at risk investing in companies like Jay or Sugarbush who are either distressed businesses with jobs at risk or growing businesses which are creating full time jobs. In Vermont, every $500,000 invested has to be shown to either saving 10 direct or indirect full time jobs or creating 10 new direct or indirect jobs. Investors expect to get a return on their investment, but because they are primarily interested in citizenship, they are willing to accept a lower return that others. That benefits business by giving them a lower cost of capital and the investors get priority in receiving a conditional green card. That is what Senator Leahy meant by a win-win. The get a conditional green card Immigration (CIS) needs to validate after 2 years that the jobs have actually been saved or created. If they are not, the conditional green card is taken away.

    This summer 220 people have worked on our two new lodges. 25% of them came from the Valley and almost all were from Vermont.

    Sugarbush is not being sold to "foreigners". I still own the controlling interest, but I have some investors that I am happy to have for a period of a few years.
    As far as finding other Vermonters to invest, I doubt that anyone would accept the terms of the financing because they don't need a green card.

    This really is a good program that is helping Sugarubsh get better, creating jobs in Vermont and bringing in people who want to be citizens of our great country and who will contribute to our future. All investors are thoroughly screened by immigation and no short cuts are taken with regard to making sure they have legitimate funds and are the type of citizen we want in this country. Were it not for EB-5 we would not have been able to make the $10 milllion of improvements that we made this summer.

    Finally I would add that this in no way takes away from H-2B visas or J-1 visas. It is a different program targeting different people.

  4. #4
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    Well said, Win.

    If Vermonters or other domestic investors were willing to supply the capital for these projects at the forecasted ROI, then perhaps you wouldn't need the EB-5 program. But it's clear that in areas like VT that have less economic vitality than others in the US, that simply isn't possible. Bringing foreign investment into the US is always a good thing. That signals optimism with respect to the US economy on the part of foreign citizens. Criticism of this program really smacks if off-base jingoism to me, and simply isn't grounded in economic fact.

  5. #5
    I don't see how there is anything wrong with getting foreign investment money working to create jobs in this country.
    If your issue is that we r "selling" green cards, well, of course we r selling green cards. It may be unfair to those of lessor means, but that is a complaint about our immigration policies in general and not with eb5. that's probably a debate we want to avoid, but what's interesting is your observation about the difficulty in getting green cards. There seems to be a widespread notion in this country that "illegal" immigrants are somehow gaming the system by furtively coming here to work. My experience with undocumented immigrants is quite the opposite. They would do anything to get their hands on a green card but simply cant. I was just working in manhattan near the federal building and the lines of people applying for visas were snaked around the block where they stood for hours upon hours.

  6. #6

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    Wow

    Well now, this post made for interesting reading over my yogurt and coffee. I'm shocked to see something as derogatory as this on a board for recreational sports. I think the author of the original post might be having a 'holy crap I can't believe I posted that' moment today.

    Have fun riding the lift by yourself......


  7. #7
    Hawk's Avatar
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    You know there is a good amount of miss information out there. I think that Tim had some good questions and they got a solid answer from the guy that is doing the deal. That is all. I found this topic to be very informative and it answered a few questions that I had. There is really no need to stomp Tim for asking. We all know everybody is a financial guru around here but lets try to at least be nice about out superior intelegence.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  8. #8

    Re: EB5 Immigrant Investor Visa Program @ Sugarbush

    Quote Originally Posted by TimKeogh
    Saw Win on the news tonight, and my feelings are mixed on this program.
    So I am interested in others views on this topic.
    What news program was he on?

    The other thing that bothers me is the "buy local" movement here in Vermont and the US lately. Why can't the capital be raised from the Vermonters?
    There aren't too many Vermonters who have enough money to invest in such capital offerings anymore. Those that do are not interested in investing in the risky ski business. And to answer your question, most people's IRAs and 401ks are invested in foreign projects.

    Also, it seems that we are at a time of "peak money" where there just is not anymore capital to be tapped and folks in need of capital are left with either enticing foreign investment or not getting their projects completed.

  9. #9
    And FWIW I was amazed that the guy on True North Radio on WDEV on Friday actually went on a rant about the EB-5 program and claiming that the projects were "pork" projects using taxpayer funding. This is incorrect. The EB-5 program is a way of enticing foreign investors and private money is used.

    Without the EB-5 program, we would not be able to benefit from the improved facilities at Jay Peak and Sugarbush. Our neighbors would also be unemployed. Instead, we would all be complaining while these areas operate with what we perceive to be "sub-par" facilities while watching our own investment portfolios, invested in foreign projects, grow!

  10. #10

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    Tim asked some good questions. This is a program that is not understood by most, so a thoughtful question allows me to respond with the facts and hopefully bring everyone up to speed.

    I did not hear the rant on TrueNorth, but that person obviously doesn't understand the facts.

    Think snow. We have a place that is getting better each year.

  11. #11

    I find this to be...

    ...an interesting thread. I've learned about 10 things I didn't previously know...and I think the thread initiator prefaced his remarks with both "mixed feelings" and "interested in other views". IMHO not an offense punishable by lonely chairlift rides.

    As old for sale signs continue to linger, and new ones are sprouting up throughout the valley, it is interesting to learn how some "outside the box" thinking can spur improvements that benefit the owner of the mountain, jobs in the valley, and the end product that users such as myself and my family enjoy. I had no idea.

    With this extended negative economic environment creating a prolonged extra ouchie "pinch" for businesses, individuals, and new business development (and with no apparent light at the end of the tunnel in sight) it is amazing that SB is growing, improving, offering better product and services, and seems to be doing so in a fiscally responsible way that ensures long term viability. "Easier said than done" comes to mind.



    Anyone in the valley this summer, with the new 7 days of operation, would have to say "Wow...this place is alive". Five years ago that would have almost seemed, to many, myself included, to be a pipe dream.

    Anyways, my coffee and cinnamon sugar Pop Tarts (breakfast of champions) were more interesting this morning because of this thread. Way better than seeing those "usual suspects" grabbing freshies at MRG in that video on another thread. I hope the bottoms of their skis are all covered in moss and twigs and yucky sticky stuff !

  12. #12
    Hawk's Avatar
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    Wow is my spelling bad! I just read my post and I need to spell check a little more.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  13. #13
    a rant about the EB-5 program and claiming that the projects were "pork" projects using taxpayer funding
    Fact's are the first casualties during election season. The good news is that by the time we're on the chair lift and the snow is falling, the elections will be over and no one will give a **** about how the capital improvements were funded except a few visa holding investors, some construction workers who had a job all summer and a few people at sugarbush who need to wrap up the paperwork.

    I plan to drive my volvo to the new cafe and have a latte. Wait, I mean, drive my pickup to the woods behind lincoln gap and shoot myself a deer... then bring it to the cafe.

  14. #14
    As a coincidence, Yahoo Finance has the following article on this program in today's headline editorials.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work...&asset=&ccode=

  15. #15

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    A very thoughtful and accurate overview. The only item that is not quite correct is that most areas of the country require a minimum invest of $1,000,000. Vermont was able to establish a Regional Center that includes areas outside of Chittenden County that requires a minimum investment of $500,000. The burden of proof depends on the economy and employments needs of the area. The State of Vermont has taken a much more proactive role with EB-5 than other States and credit goes to a Republican Governor, Jim Douglas, and a Democratic Senator, Patrick Leahy. Nice to see that bi-partisanship can actually exist for the benefit of their constituents.

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