Are the snow guns going?

**Hawk** · 12-04-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by gone.skiing

Originally Posted by win

ME is now better right now.

?

I think he meant no better right now.......

**snowsnakesam** · 12-04-2009, 05:40 PM

This is snow snake’s wife. The blog would not let me log in on my own…

Any way. I AM STARTING TO GET THE SHAKES. I need to feed my addiction of skiing and I am starting to go through withdrawal. The snow guns have been going all day but the river has as well. It is time for this warm weather to just stop. I have had enough.

Lets all do a snow dance together and get the ski season started.

Sorry I am an addict and sometimes I get a little out of control… BRING ON THE SNOW

**Lostone** · 12-04-2009, 05:59 PM

Welcome to the board. Congratulations on making the first post with that handle, that has been in for almost two years!

PM me your screen name, and I'll look into it.

As for getting the season going, I'd much rather chat on the computer with all my good friends, here.

**HowieT2** · 12-04-2009, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by snowsnakesam

This is snow snake’s wife. The blog would not let me log in on my own…

Any way. I AM STARTING TO GET THE SHAKES. I need to feed my addiction of skiing and I am starting to go through withdrawal. The snow guns have been going all day but the river has as well. It is time for this warm weather to just stop. I have had enough.

Lets all do a snow dance together and get the ski season started.

Sorry I am an addict and sometimes I get a little out of control… BRING ON THE SNOW

welcome to skiers anonymous. The first step is admitting your addiction.

**G-man** · 12-04-2009, 06:58 PM

This has been a tough week to weather watch in Boston. I'm not proud to say that I haven't yet turned on my heat this fall. Being a multi-unit building, between the passive solar and warm units around me, I'm saving on heating in this unseasonably warm weather.
I'm headed up soon tonite to the Valley to at least get settled in my place, p/u the pass, see who's around and maybe get in a hike or two.
Doing the snow dance too!!!

**Tin Woodsman** · 12-04-2009, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by ski_resort_observer

I was just referring to this weekend. Too my point, Mt Snow has a ton of firepower, installed 100+ fan guns a couple of years ago when they got new owners. They just announced that they are delaying their opening to Sun. Attitash and Okemo also known for alot of snowmaking firepower, Attitash got bought by the same company that bought Mt Snow and installed 100+ fan guns, as well. Both are also opening on Sat. For this weekend, doesn't matter whether you have 2 trails or 20 trails your blowing snow on this past month. With little base, a big rain event will diseffect the product to the negetive.

If firepower is so important in getting open how come Mt Snow, Attitash, Okemo, Hunter, all known for their snowmaking firepower won't be open until this weekend? Weather trumps firepower just about everytime.

I believe I heard that this past November was one of the warmest on record. I assume that is Vermont or maybe the region. The PNW is getting pounded with snow so far this season, that's a good thing regarding the upcoming Olympics but it was only about 5 years ago(?) that the PNW was almost snowless the whole winter.

To further discredit the company line being spouted above (as if it needs any help in that department), here's an interesting answer on Alpine Zone from Tim Boyd of Peak Resorts regarding the state of snowmaking at Mt. Snow:

Originally Posted by Tim Boyd - President of Peak Resorts

The permiting process for Westlake is finally starting to see some daylight. Truthfully, this has been much more difficult that it should have been. The approval process in Vermont is staggering. Common sense and logic are not given much consideration in Vermont’s approval process for these types of projects. Quite frankly it is one of the major contributing factors to the high cost of skiing in the state. As far as water goes, we continue to manage our resources in such a manner that it has not been a problem. Once we finally gain our approvals, we anticipate improving our water situation even more. On a side note, I would like to comment on some of the interesting information about snowmaking I have read on this forum. I have been personally making snow for over 27 years. Peak Resorts uses both fan and air/water technology. I have personally used, and still do, both technologies. The capital investment for fan snowmaking is significantly higher than air/water. So it would make no sense to spend additional money on this technology if there wasn’t a significant advantage to the fans. In marginal temperatures (above 25 degrees) our research and experience shows that fans perform better than air/water both in efficiency and production. You can add extreme amounts of air (very costly) to an air/water gun to get it to make some snow in marginal temperatures. However, there are several advantages the fan technology provides in marginal temperatures. One of these would be the “hang time” advantage of the fans. Longer “hang time” means higher conversion rate thus more snow. Another advantage to the fans is the on-board air compressor. With “on-hill” air comes lots of moisture content in the line (even if you are using air-dryers). More moisture in the air only makes conversion more difficult especially in marginal temperatures. The air from the “on-board” air travels much less distance and has very little moisture build-up. Some air/water guns now also come with “on-board” air too. However, they cannot deliver enough CFM in marginal temperatures to be effective. These advantages really manifest themselves in the conversion rate difference between the fans and air/water. Until you get down to really cold temperatures (under 10 degrees) the conversion rate from water to snow is significantly higher with fan guns. This conversion rate advantage leads to a better quality of snow in the fans. For example, that is why on many occasions when you ski by an air/water gun you are turned into an icicle, but it brushes off of you if ski under a fan. All of this doesn’t mean air/water doesn’t have its applications in certain situations, such as small and narrow areas, or areas where you might desire a wetter product. Since we have installed the fans at Mount Snow we no longer use over $700,000 in diesel fuel and rental. Our electrical consumption for snowmaking has decreased about 11%. Last year we had a 300 hour decrease in our total snowmaking hours. And on top of all of this, we pumped over 30 million gallons more water than we did the year before (example of the conversion rate advantage). Among the truly knowledgeable people in the industry who have put in the time and effort to really research the science of snowmaking, the debate over which technology is superior has been over for some time. With the rising cost of energy the debate becomes only more one-sided. Snowmaking has always been one of my greatest passions in the ski business. I still do it every chance I get. These are just some thoughts from an old snowmaker in trying to separate fact from fiction.

**Lostone** · 12-04-2009, 08:17 PM

Accepting that I live in a very small place, and get a lot of heat out of baking a potato, and that I tend to wear a lot of stuff, inside, I've used very little heat, this season, too.

That has been one of the good sides. Another is that, all the extra time to wear my new ski boots around the condo has moved them from little torture chambers to, "I can ski in these. I just need these two places..."

On the other side... I WANT TO GET GOING!!

Other than that, welcome to the board.

Oh yeah... The snowguns have been going most of the day.

**win** · 12-04-2009, 08:32 PM

Better temps tonight! Low E guns that we have installed have had similar results. We got rid of diesel generators a few years ago! Fans Guns work in certain areas and are not as good in others.

**shadyjay** · 12-04-2009, 10:29 PM

It is 10:26pm and I just took my dog outside before bed, while listening to the guns crankin' up on Downspout. Weird looking glow over the top of Gadd Peak... can't see LP summit from my vantage point. Adjacent creeks/streams alongside "Village Run" trail are haulin' right now and it appears the crews (Kingsbury and Bush) have finished the road repairs caused by the r@!n - clogged culverts, drains and such.

See y'all real soon!

**win** · 12-05-2009, 07:51 AM

WE had a good night of snowmaking and the temperatures were a bit colder than forecast, so we were able to put all the firepower on Downspout down to Heaven's Gate lift at LP and Elbow and Rim Run D down to the Summit Lift. Opening tomorrow is looking much better and we will let everyone know soon. I may have to go up and personal inspect everything this morning.

**vonski** · 12-05-2009, 08:01 AM

We want to ski tomorrow. under guns if needed and with rock skis if needed and at Ellen if needed. . definitely a lot colder out this morning!

**Hawk** · 12-05-2009, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by snowsnakesam

This is snow snake’s wife. The blog would not let me log in on my own…

Any way. I AM STARTING TO GET THE SHAKES. I need to feed my addiction of skiing and I am starting to go through withdrawal. The snow guns have been going all day but the river has as well. It is time for this warm weather to just stop. I have had enough.

Lets all do a snow dance together and get the ski season started.

Sorry I am an addict and sometimes I get a little out of control… BRING ON THE SNOW

I know you! Maybe us two addicts should get together tonight and drown our sorrows.

**beelze** · 12-05-2009, 12:05 PM

I think we can all understand the difficulties this weather has presented throughout the north east. However, I think the relevant point on the capacity debate now needs to turn to how much quicker can some of these other mountains get full coverage (and sufficient depth) for what the average joe would consider an acceptable (not great) experience? That means not having to rely on the rock skis for fear of damaging your regular gear. Mid-season it would be more a question of how much quicker/better their touch ups would be in comparison.

On a related snowmaking topic, I understand why Sugarbush makes the large piles with the guns and I think in general the snowmaking has been better the past two years. However, I do wish they would rope the larger piles off until they are relocated. I'd also suggest that there should be no snowmaking in the areas near lift exits during daytime and that piles made the night before in those areas be distributed by the time customers are hitting the mountain. Its one thing to have to dodge a few guns going down a run and one certainly has a choice not to do those runs, quite another to have to deal with the negatives every time off the lift.