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  1. #16
    For me... Just doing laps and getting conditioned, so I'll be ready.


    Just think of it as this is the time that I tell you that I was skiing,and you can't say I wasn't, because you weren't there.

    .
    Two roads diverged in a wood,

    and I- I took the one less traveled by,


    And that has made all the difference.

  2. #17
    speaking of snow guns, what happened with the fan gun demo last season?
    will there be new fan guns this season?

  3. #18
    Looks like Ole' Man Winter is stopping by briefly to help out the Snowmaking Engineers on Thursday:

    http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick...x=43&map.y=159

    Just another couple of degrees lower in temperature......

  4. #19
    Just a light covering of snow at the top. Seems to be a little heavier at the very top of Organgrinder.

    And... Oh yes... steam coming from the compressor building.


    (Before anyone gets the wrong idea, the snow at the top of OG is just the very top. Almost definitely, only blowover from Jester.


    Still...
    .
    Two roads diverged in a wood,

    and I- I took the one less traveled by,


    And that has made all the difference.

  5. #20

    Guns galore

    The guns are going. Checkout the "Sights and Sounds" vid: http://www.sugarbush.com/snow-trails...ountain-update

  6. #21

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    We've had a couple of good days of snowmaking and and are staying on Upper Jester tonight. tomorrow and as long as possbile tomorrow night. Then the temperatures are supposed to rise, and it looks like we will not have snowmaking temperatures for most of next week (but you never know!). We need about 5-7 days of good temperatures to get the upper mountain ready to ski, so hopefully late next week we will get those temperatures so we can spin the Bravo and Heaven's Gate lifts as planned on Saturday, November 21st.

  7. #22
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    Win - care to comment on the results of last season's testing program with the fan gun?

  8. #23
    The fan gun was sitting at the start of the zip line, Wednesday.
    .
    Two roads diverged in a wood,

    and I- I took the one less traveled by,


    And that has made all the difference.

  9. #24

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    Generally speaking the fan gun was a plus. It is a nusiance moving it and a a sudden change in the wind can cause some problems. The guns likely works best mounted on a pole is a fixed location. We are keeping it this year and may look at some additionas purchases next spring. We have also purchased some additional nozzles for our towers this year.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by win
    Generally speaking the fan gun was a plus. It is a nusiance moving it and a a sudden change in the wind can cause some problems. The guns likely works best mounted on a pole is a fixed location. We are keeping it this year and may look at some additionas purchases next spring. We have also purchased some additional nozzles for our towers this year.
    Great to hear.

    I'd have to think that if placed correctly on wide, high traffic runs/areas like Spring Fling, Snowball, Birch, Inverness, Cruiser, Times Sq and the OG/Steins/Lower Downspout intersection at LP, they would be a wise investment indeed, allowing you to utilize your more scarce (and expensive) compressed air resources for other runs. Would a larger roll-out of this technology be predicated on full implementation of your approved plans for snowmaking water?

  11. #26
    Don't forget you need POWER!

    When I made snow in CT, we primarily used fan guns, but also used traditional air/waters. Thing about fans is that they require power, which from investigating around the mountain, pretty sure isn't always available at every set of hydrants. Not that the power that I had to deal with in CT was any better... switching on a breaker box at each station required standing on one foot, and always carrying old school long fuses in your bibs next to a pair of fuse pullers. It was fun, I survived, but that mtn was sketchy!

    Fans at high traffic areas previously mentioned would work good. Some fans also have their own compressors, so you could free up air for other trails/areas.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadyjay
    Don't forget you need POWER!

    When I made snow in CT, we primarily used fan guns, but also used traditional air/waters. Thing about fans is that they require power, which from investigating around the mountain, pretty sure isn't always available at every set of hydrants. Not that the power that I had to deal with in CT was any better... switching on a breaker box at each station required standing on one foot, and always carrying old school long fuses in your bibs next to a pair of fuse pullers. It was fun, I survived, but that mtn was sketchy!

    Fans at high traffic areas previously mentioned would work good. Some fans also have their own compressors, so you could free up air for other trails/areas.
    That's exactly my point. Not sure if power is or is not an issue in those areas, but it sure as heck would consume a LOT less energy (and money) than compressing all that air, cooling it down and shoving it up hill.

  13. #28
    This gets rehashed every year.
    http://forums.skimrv.com/viewtopic.p...ght=snowmaking
    http://forums.skimrv.com/viewtopic.p...ght=snowmaking

    The Bush got the e-guns a couple of years because they use less energy. The Bush is restricted by the grid as to availible power, especially on cold nights. A couple of smaller wind turbines on Mt Ellen below the ridgeline would help a great deal IMHO. Taking out the tower guns and building small towers for fan guns would cost millions.

    I was up at Attitash a couple of years ago checking out some of the newly installed fans. Talking to a couple of the mountain opps guys I'm not so sure these guns are better than the tower guns we use. They use alot of energy compared to an e-gun. Both Mt Snow and Attitash installed over 100 fan guns each. Can't help but notice they are not open either. Who hasn't seen the billboards? The guns are pretty, haveta admit.




    When Peaks Resorts bought Attash and Mt Snow they spent millions buying and installing hundreds of fan guns on mini-towers. The Bush chose a diferent path. The Rock will probably never have snowmaking except for the troubled runouts near the base of the lift, a fan gun up there might be good there, so the Bush will never have 100% snowmaking. I can live with that just fine.

    With the economy still hurting and the Bush in the middle of the Lincoln Peak expansion developement, the plate is pretty full financially.
    www.firstlightphotographics.com
    Sugarbusher since 1970
    Skiing is a dance, and the mountain always leads.

  14. #29
    Orion says hello. mmmmmmmmmm, stop . . . listen . . . . smell that. Winter is near.

  15. #30
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    [quote="ski_resort_observer"]This gets rehashed every year.
    Indeed. And every year, the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil brigade rides again.

    The Bush got the e-guns a couple of years because they use less energy.
    Less energy than what? Less energy than the older technology air/water guns - sure. If you are stating that they use less power than a fan gun, then I'd need to see some proof of that. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to first compress and then cool air before it is sent a few thousand feet up hill. With the fan guns having a compressor on board, the air is already there. You need only plug them into a grid.

    The Bush is restricted by the grid as to availible power, especially on cold nights. A couple of smaller wind turbines on Mt Ellen below the ridgeline would help a great deal IMHO.
    It is my understanding that replacing air/water guns with fan guns would actually help in this regard by reducing the net power needed to make a given amount of snow.

    Taking out the tower guns and building small towers for fan guns would cost millions.
    Who is suggesting that they all get taken out? Only you are. Fan guns are ideal for wider runs at mid to lower elevations because of their superior throw, output and debottlenecking of your air compression plant at marginal temps (as you know, you need a lot more air for making snow at lower elevations with their often marginal wet bulb temps). They cost $30K each to purchase and install. Because of their superior throw and coverage when mounted on a pole, you would need fewer guns than the air/water types currently installed on those runs. For $1MM, you could surely cover all of Snowball and Spring Fling as well as the high traffic zones at North and South (Times Sq and the OG/Steins/Downspout mixing bowl). For another $1MM, you'd cover Cruiser and Inverness, and possibly some of Birch. That may even be conservative in terms of coverage. Moreover, you still own those low-e guns - you're not going to throw them out. So they could get redeployed on runs like Northstar, Which Way, Deathspout, Elbow and Rim Run. For X amount of investment, you're upgrading your snowmaking capabilities on twice the acreage.

    I was up at Attitash a couple of years ago checking out some of the newly installed fans. Talking to a couple of the mountain opps guys I'm not so sure these guns are better than the tower guns we use. They use alot of energy compared to an e-gun. Both Mt Snow and Attitash installed over 100 fan guns each. Can't help but notice they are not open either. Who hasn't seen the billboards? The guns are pretty, haveta admit.
    Attitash? You mean the resort in NH that gets about half the snowfall of Sugarbush where the base elevation is 700' and the summit is 500' LOWER than the top of the Valley House chair? That Attitash? One wonders how they could possibly be closed at this date with such natural advantages as that. As for what you heard from their mtn ops guys, can you share any details? What is the basis of comparison?

    When Peaks Resorts bought Attash and Mt Snow they spent millions buying and installing hundreds of fan guns on mini-towers.
    Correct - and Mt. Snow, the furthest south ski area in VT, immediately became a contender for having the longest season in the East, something they had never even thought about doing under previous ownership regimes.

    [quote]The Bush chose a diferent path. The Rock will probably never have snowmaking except for the troubled runouts near the base of the lift, a fan gun up there might be good there, so the Bush will never have 100% snowmaking. I can live with that just fine. [quote]
    I don't understand why you need to keep introducing strawmen. Who suggested that the Bush should expand coverage to Castlerock, let alone the rest of the mountain? With the exception of that bottom area of CR you mentioned and perhaps the Heavens Gate Traverse, I think they have a perfect level of coverage. It's their production on those covered trails (their intensity per acre) that is clearly lacking. That's the basis of the fan gun debate.

    With the economy still hurting and the Bush in the middle of the Lincoln Peak expansion developement, the plate is pretty full financially.
    The Bush appears to be primarily using other people's money to fund the next stage of their LP Village via the EB-5 visa program. They found the budget to invest in the less than critical asset that is the lightly-used Lincoln Limo. I would submit that having reliable conditions early season and after a thaw/freeze is about as critical to the SB skiing experience as you can get. Their big competitor to the South has finally woken up with respect to investment in their snowmaking infrastructure. Their big competitor to the North gets materially more natural snow and has a much stronger brand. If you want to entice people to drive that extra hour, it sure as hell isn't going to be a big red faux barn that does it.

    If these guns didn't provide a benefit, why would Win be discussing the possible investment in more of them?

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