Ski school ?

[gone.skiing]

Maybe the program has changed, but I think it's great. If you're of the opposite opinion, ski with your kids. They'll love you more, there's nothing better.

There is always this option to tell mountain what you are looking for and see if changes can be made to make the program better.

[muddy_hollow]

Muddy hollow,
nice generalization. At least man up and address "those parents" by their screen names. There were a few of us in this thread, are you talking about anyone in particular? You think that programs work great as is, good for you. If you think you can coach better than adventure blazers coaches, even better. I agree there is not enough stoke on this board, so post some every once in a while to make up for our inadequacy.

Hawk,
nobody can control barkbiter and nobody wins fights against him. A lot of people have been scarred for life trying.

On a serous note your assessment is spot on. It holds true for both adults and kids programs. Different people want different things from the programs and there should be a group for them in ALC. After all some people are afraid to take their skis to Castlerock and some will skis it until the day it closes. I am sure there are a few things that can be done in upcoming season to address some of the issues brought up in this thread.

Didn't say I could coach better than adventure blazers. Those guys rock, IMHO. What I was trying to convey was if you don't like blazers put the money down and move the kid to adventure blazers. It's expensive and if you cannot afford it, take the kids out yourself. I was generalizing and not calling you out, but let's face it we've all run into that "parent" or worse yet momentarily became that "parent". We're all dropping substantial cash for the program but blazers is not the be all end all of courses for kids.

Again, it's all a yawn. Can't wait to see some powder pics and video from this season on the forums.

[notorious]

Now that all segments of the Sugarbush community have expressed themselves, from the lunatic fringe to the house cheerleaders, from the parents of "affected" programs through members of Bush Pilots (always capitalized out of respect, just kidding), from instructors, myriad non ski-school employees, former parents, Valley residents, white platers, interested observers, from opinion-makers through opinionated, from Red Neck Mutha through Skilady to Jacques le guide (n.b. spelling of Jacques, my man, who by the way is most definitely not the (thank you, Creator) childless Barkbiter by another name, and most of all from ownership, there is one abiding unifying theme that makes clarion music out of cacaphony,...that is the clear love for the special place in our hearts and minds that we all call "the Bush". If the interested reader were to re-read this thread from the beginning shout-out to the most current attempt at reasonable discourse, which re-read it I did, the one impressive consistency is the universal commitment to the "Sugarbush vision" --- "Sugarbush-The Adventure Skiing Capital of the East".

Some in our community noticed that changes are afoot which raised questions in the observer's minds, and which made them uneasy about the devotion of the Ski and Ride School administrator to the shared vision. Among the changes these observers noticed is the unknown change in duties of one of this community's most valued participants, John Atkinson, a man whose devotion to Sugarbush, and whose willingness to do any task for the benefit of the MT, is unparalled. Does anyone dispute that if John remained in his position of supervisor of seasonal programs that this thread would not have lasted beyond page one? Now we are on page seven and counting, yet the ski school administrator and the new head of Blazers,of whom I have heard nothing but good things, have done nothing to address these paying customer concerns.

Why are we talking to ourselves, when all that the loyal paying customers are asking is that managment talk to us?

Win has spoken. His committment to the vision has been clear, whether expressed on this board, in person to me, to Brewski as reported above, or to those who took him up on his offer to communicate directly with him. If ownership has spoken, then why the lingering questions?

One has to wonder why the line managers do not speak in support of the owner and customer's shared vision. Is it indicative of internal divisions in management regarding the Ski and Ride School role? My personal conversations with the administator left me with no doubt--- the man does not like Eastern tree skiing, nor fat skis, nor internet blogs. He feels 99% of Sugarbush parents do not care about ski school woods policy. Other people I know have reported identical conversations. These comments were not taken out of context. They have been repeated enough times to enough people to be accepted as his true feelings. If anyone has had conversations in which he supports the shared vision please so state. Fine by me. To each of us our own opinion. The man is fully entitled to his own opinions.

It is not opinions that matter, it is actions. The actions to date have not satisfied observant customers that he shares the vision. Many customers are willing to pay Sugarbush for cutting edge programs. We pay great people to take us and our kids to places we don't belong on our own. They teach us the skills necessary to to take it to the next level. We pay them to teach us about the great Sugarbush terrain, on and off-map, in all conditions. The resort is in the business of selling fun. The customers are trying to tell management what kinds of fun they are willing to pay for---for themselves and their kids. Do they want this money, or not? I know ownership is listening to the customers. Is management?

Gentlemen, do the right thing.

We await confirmation that program content will match customer expectations.

[Lostone]

All should note that this board is not a part of Sugarbush Resort.

There are many who work there, who participate, but not all who work there are registered, or care to be.


If you are involved with the ALC you either have the email addresses of anyone in charge of any and all programs, or one from which you can get your email forwarded to them. They have no responsibility to address anyone here.

What is more, were it to be me being attacked here, I'd be sure not to answer.

[TreeBandit]

My question to the group is, when the coaches and program leadership was around at the end of the season and even during the season, did you bring up these concerns that were highlighted here?

I have found that you have to question things that you do not like real time. I fully understand that decisions are made real time and unless you know what they are it is always easy to make judgement calls. When I and Muddy had concerns with our kids group we talked directly with the coach at the following week about out concerns and even after the day based on feedback we recieved from our kids. I would even talk to the coach at the start and lunch time to see how things were going and what the plans were from the day. This time allowed me to voice my opions which resulted in a good conversation and some changes.

I have also found that open direct discussions work best and then if something does not change or you are not provided a reason why they can not change then it should be escalated to the management team.

If I was a coach I know I would not try to address the items identified in this post and it would be a no win situation (it is like asking someone to bring their own rope to thier hanging). I think what would help is that the parents with concerns list what their goals are for their kids, and get thier kids to agree with these and then present them directly to the coaching team. During the season follow up with them each week to provide feedback.

[barkbiter]

All should note that this board is not a part of Sugarbush Resort.

There are many who work there, who participate, but not all who work there are registered, or care to be.


If you are involved with the ALC you either have the email addresses of anyone in charge of any and all programs, or one from which you can get your email forwarded to them. They have no responsibility to address anyone here.

What is more, were it to be me being attacked here, I'd be sure not to answer.

Thanks again Lostone for having nothing to add.
Nothing. Ever. Funkiller.

[Go Figure]

All should note that this board is not a part of Sugarbush Resort.

There are many who work there, who participate, but not all who work there are registered, or care to be.


If you are involved with the ALC you either have the email addresses of anyone in charge of any and all programs, or one from which you can get your email forwarded to them. They have no responsibility to address anyone here.

What is more, were it to be me being attacked here, I'd be sure not to answer.

Thanks again Lostone for having nothing to add.
Nothing. Ever. Funkiller.

Like a wet blanket, watch out or threadlock will appear.

[gone.skiing]

TreeBandit,
tactical issues are easy to address and they do get addressed. We are not discussing basic "is my kid in the right group" type of scenario here. Some of the things we are talking about in this thread are above and beyond a casual conversation with a coach or even seasonal program supervisor.

Lostone,
would you not say that communicating with customers is an important part of job description in those positions? If the owner of the place can find time in his schedule to address our posts here why can't other folks? Believe it or not these message boards are an important communication channel and news spread on the internet faster than anywhere. Just check out places like epicski, TGR, facebook with 1000s of posters and even more readers. Why do moderators keep recommending that conversation be taken to PMs/email? What is left for the board than? Exit 5 vs 4, closed restaurants and map size discussions?

[Lostone]

would you not say that communicating with customers is an important part of job description in those positions?

I would, but I would not say this is the best place to discuss everything. This is especially true when there are a number of hostile people attacking some of the people in those positions. Thus I reminded y'all that there are official channels for such communication.

I'm sot saying people can't discuss this or other topics here; only that people should not engage in personal attacks. I am saying that if you really want a response, you might want to speak where you know they will listen.

I think most reasonable people, reading the above posts would concur that it would be disadvantageous to respond to that hostility in such an open forum. Not everyone is reasonable.

[HowieT2]

would you not say that communicating with customers is an important part of job description in those positions?

I would, but I would not say this is the best place to discuss everything. This is especially true when there are a number of hostile people attacking some of the people in those positions. Thus I reminded y'all that there are official channels for such communication.

I'm sot saying people can't discuss this or other topics here; only that people should not engage in personal attacks. I am saying that if you really want a response, you might want to speak where you know they will listen.

I think most reasonable people, reading the above posts would concur that it would be disadvantageous to respond to that hostility in such an open forum. Not everyone is reasonable.

What hostility? Other than the usual provocations from our favorite tree eater, there has been a frank discussion. There are divergent view points and it would be helpful for the new sheriff (or someone on his behalf) to tell us what the status is.

[Lostone]

What hostility?

I believe a reasonable person would find a lot of it, above. I have heard that from a number of others, both on and off the board.

I do agree about the frank discussion. And I do believe that is a good aspect of the board, as is the exit 4 V 5, by the way.

[HowieT2]

What hostility?

I believe a reasonable person would find a lot of it, above. I have heard that from a number of others, both on and off the board.

I do agree about the frank discussion. And I do believe that is a good aspect of the board, as is the exit 4 V 5, by the way.

I think your mistaking severe preseason snow/ski frustration for hostility.

[TreeBandit]

[quote="gone.skiing"]TreeBandit,
tactical issues are easy to address and they do get addressed. We are not discussing basic "is my kid in the right group" type of scenario here. Some of the things we are talking about in this thread are above and beyond a casual conversation with a coach or even seasonal program supervisor.
quote]

I am old enough to know what the group is talking about, and I was not talking about tactical issues. But everyone seems to want a good hanging. I would have to disagree because I believe the issues could have been resolved during the ski year and not have 7 pages if complaints 12 months later were everyone only get half the story.

I had conversations each week with the coach on were they were planning on skiing and what was the goals or lessons for the day. I also asked my kid what did they do, were did they ski and did they have fun. If I received any negitive feedback from my child I talked to the coach to find out his side. Most of the time restaints on were they skied was based on how well to group listened and followed instructions.

I am not the parent that screams from the sideline or complain to others. If I do not like what a coach is doing, I make time to meet with them face to face and yes the coach and program supervisor are the place to start. Complaining to the owner of the mountain is like going to your bosses boss to claim about your peer. Again in doing so you may find out that their are reasons to why things are done or not done and if then you do not see changes you should move up the chain.

Here is a question for the group...how many of you "Tipped" the coach at the end of the year? was it a good tip? if it was then arent you sending different messages? based on some of the comments if see here if the coaches were waiters, I do not beleive you would have given them more than 5%.

Bottom line to me is that if I have issues with a program and was not getting what I expected from the program then I would drop it and pull my kid. I have also stated here that I love to ski with my kid and this is why I only have her in a 1 day program. The second day is for family time and where I get to see the positive changes in her skiing due to the coaching that she receives.

[barkbiter]

Reasonable and frank discussions only until Mr. Conservative tosses his wet blanket.
Please, stop calling this an open forum. It is not. It's a tightly moderated, restricted access forum. Not even close to "open"
Check just about any other board, freedom is out there, but it's not here.
Even the mother site, alpinezone is open and free !
Sign up and post immediately there, not even afraid of dreaded curse words !
Here, well no. Wait a week or more to be approved, if at all, then beware the Wet Blanket !

[Yard Sale]

I think LostOne does an admirable job. Your pillow case is made of bark.