LP Village Phase II: Almost Shovel Ready?

[chuck]

Win - Thanks for elaborating on the details of the decision. Based on those circumstances, I can work with it.

[win]

We have rendering in both the GH Lodge and Timbers, and I would be pleased to go over them with anyone interested.

We are still in the permitting process with both the town and the State, but our plan is to begin the deconstrcution of the interim village in the first week of April and to have the buildings completed by December 15th. This is like the GH Lodge schedule. A lot of work but doable.

In April we will still be able to offer rental equipment and ski and ride lessons as the old village is taken apart, and we hope to be skiing and riding through April again. There will not be any impact on the slopes until after we close.

[thinksnow]

Yes, thanks for the details again, Win.

This string was getting quite tired with all the complaining. Hey, if you want to be a ski bum, why have kids in the first place? Guess you should have weighed that decision fully, rather than complain about how ski area development doesn't fit your particular needs.

[Yard Sale]

Win or anyone who may know:

I thought I read that there would be changes to begginner terrain. What are they going to be?

Thanks,

YS

[chuck]

Thinksnow - My wife and i are breeding the next generation of ski bums, to keep the industry populated....

[HowieT2]

It was a very thoughtful decision. Microbears are being located here, so all the on-snow activities will be in one building. The cost of also including a regulated day-care facility also in this building is what drove the decision. We have a certain level of funding and that is going to dicatate what we can build. The existing building in the Village is where our year around day care will continue to be located. We can provide shuttle service as well.

In my humble opinion, this is going to be a great gateway into Sugarbush and families and others will find it convenient and very attractive.

You might all also know that very few resorts are going to be building anything in this climate!

Thanks for your response. I for one, am pleasantly surprised, even shocked, that this project is proceeding in the current economic climate. It's welcome news.
However, as you yourself have previously stated, it is most important that this project be done right, and I think not including a day care center, is a mistake. Correct me if I'm wrong (I've never been inside the current facility), but how much space can a day care center require? 1000 SF? Is it really going to cost that much incrementally more to include it? My kids are 8 and 12 (and the factory is closed) so this has absolutely no impact on me personally, but I think it's important to the experience of new families who are the future purchasers of the condos.

Am I correct to understand that the project will include some sort of regrading that will eliminate the "stairs of death"? How will this work?

Tin- I thought the plan included a new cafeteria and retail space? wouldn't this provide a place to sit and hang out? or has that been eliminated in the redesign?

There are always compromises which must be made in the face of fiscal reality. You can't always get what you want. But there is no doubt that this project will be a vast improvement over the current facilities. Exciting. and think about all chatter we'll have on this topic once the season is over.

[Last Tracks]

Even though some of us might disagree about the details, you only have to go to Bolton to see what happens to a ski area that doesn't make the neccessary capital investments and is now caught in a downward spiral.

Win - i hope that we have another cinco de mayo party this year!

[Tin Woodsman]

It was a very thoughtful decision. Microbears are being located here, so all the on-snow activities will be in one building. The cost of also including a regulated day-care facility also in this building is what drove the decision. We have a certain level of funding and that is going to dictate what we can build. The existing building in the Village is where our year around day care will continue to be located. We can provide shuttle service as well.

In my humble opinion, this is going to be a great gateway into Sugarbush and families and others will find it convenient and very attractive.

You might all also know that very few resorts are going to be building anything in this climate!

Win -

As always, thanks for chiming in. With all due respect, I continue to be disappointed in this decision. It's great that the Microbears will be integrated into the base area, but dropping the tots over in the SB Village is a PITA, and I'm not sure how that can be disputed. Shuttle service does nothing to eliminate the underlying issue of multiple stops to begin the day. Sure it's not my money, and you are right that it's tough to get anything built in this climate (thank the lord for the EB-5 program), but this seems like a glaring omission to me. You are choosing to build a real estate discovery center that could easily be housed in a temporary facility. You are choosing to add 3 and 4 bedroom palaces above the kids ski school when you are having trouble selling the existing inventory in CB. This deficiency will now be locked in for a generation or three, as I would imagine that State regs would have required some sort of re-design, which is unfortunate.

Make no mistake, it will be great to have first class facilities that are thoughtfully designed and the beginnings of a village core. Yet, it seems like a lot of pieces will have to go missing - the village will be half-pregnant.

[Tin Woodsman]

Thanks for your response. I for one, am pleasantly surprised, even shocked, that this project is proceeding in the current economic climate. It's welcome news.

+1

However, as you yourself have previously stated, it is most important that this project be done right, and I think not including a day care center, is a mistake. Correct me if I'm wrong (I've never been inside the current facility), but how much space can a day care center require? 1000 SF? Is it really going to cost that much incrementally more to include it? My kids are 8 and 12 (and the factory is closed) so this has absolutely no impact on me personally, but I think it's important to the experience of new families who are the future purchasers of the condos.

I think the 1000-2000 SF is probably right for the current facility, at least the inside portion. I know state regs include some sort of mandate for outside play space. Apparently, the bureaucrats in Montpelier are unfamiliar with winters at 1500'. My guess is that is what my have done them in.

Am I correct to understand that the project will include some sort of regrading that will eliminate the "stairs of death"? How will this work?

I'm not Win, nor do I play him on TV, but going by the renderings, it looks like you're going to have sloped walkways on the lower half of the Village and in the plaza between the kids and adult ski school. Then two flights of 6-10 steps each (like those leading to Bravo) for the final push up to the GH lift loading area.

Tin- I thought the plan included a new cafeteria and retail space? wouldn't this provide a place to sit and hang out? or has that been eliminated in the redesign?

That was the plan for the original Family Center with 45,000 SF. Now you've got three separate structures comprising 36,000 SF, and they are jamming useless stuff in there (OK, not quite useless, but not an optimal use of space) like the real estate sales pitch booth. You also have the redundancy (3x the stairwells and HVAC etc..) that comes with three separate bldgs, so you'll have even less usable space than you would have though. Anyway, I haven't seen any mention of a new cafeteria for the kids ski school in the new plan, so I'm assuming that's out. I very much hope to be wrong - it would be good to have a place for non-skiing parents to just hang out instead of setting up camp in the GH lodge. The bar that had been discussed has almost certainly been eliminated. In tandem with the cessation of all talk about demolishing VH, the elimination of the renderings showing the VH lift loading at the base, and the new paint job, it looks like the plan is to simply keep VH open for the near to medium term. They really have no choice but to continue using it for the bar, racing, and weekend cafeteria overflow.

There are always compromises which must be made in the face of fiscal reality. You can't always get what you want. But there is no doubt that this project will be a vast improvement over the current facilities. Exciting. and think about all chatter we'll have on this topic once the season is over.[/quote]

[Yard Sale]

Tin-

I hope you know I appreciate that you voice your opinions of SB doings. I sense that in general your advocacy for your opinions isn't typically derived solely from self interest but for the greater good of Sugarbushers everywhere as you see it, but. . .

Your concern with the location of the day care makes me think that maybe. . .

Are we going to be hearing the pitter patter or rather the clunkety clunk of the little ski boots of powder hungry little Woodsmen in the near future?

Please forgive me for prying.

Respectfully,

YS

[win]

It is hard to address everything in enough detail to satisfy all, but I will try to answer the questions raised. As I said, I am happy to show people in person the renderings and walk through our thought process of many months.

First of all, the plan is the result of a lot of input from many on our team, from people who know the industry and from personal site visits to other areas. Yes, it would be ideal to include day care in one buidling. But the code really adds a significant amount of space and adds greatly to the cost. Given that day care is utilized by relatively few people, we decided that the existing facility while not perfect is more than adequate. Sugarbush actually had one of the first day care facilities in the ski business, and I beleive it has been in this location for many years. In speaking to quite a few mothers with young children, they would all agree that it would be ideal to have everything in one spot, but they were most concerned with having all the on snow kids programs in one building and felt that toddler care could remain where it is.

As far a grading goes, we will be doing it in two phases. There will be improvements with this phase and further ones in the next phase as we put in a new Village lift. This new lift will likely occur with the additional residences. Our goal is to create much better beginner terrain for both adults and children so their will be regrading near the children's ski school.

The entrance will do away with the temporary wooden steps and there will be a more graduated entrance into the Resort. Think of it as going up a seet of steps on a grade onto a plaza and then another set of stairs onto the mountain. We will also have quite a bit of snow melt. The Children's ski school entrance will be at the parking lot level and the rental building which will house tickets and a small coffee shop will be at the plaza level. There will also be public bathroom in this building. The second floor of this second building will be at snow level so once one rents skis or a board you exit onto snow near the GH lift. In the Children's building, micros are on the ground floor along with general check-in and Sugar and Minis are on the second floor. Both exit onto snow level. This building is designed to take advantage of the grade change so that kids ski on and off into the building.

As far as Tin's comment about the first guest service building, I did not like the aesthetic look of one large buidling in the main gateway in. There may be some efficiencies in one large building, but there are many other trade-offs in my opinion. As far as "useless stuff" that is not my opinion. Spending $10-$12 million on new facilities only makes sense if real estate sales can fund it, and if you are going to sell real estate you have to have appropriate facilities. Our current offices in CB will be utilized for other retail opportunities.

As far as the VH goes, it is staying at least for a while, and now that we have painted it, I am getting more of the opinion that we might must keep it and renovate it. That is not a firm decision yet, but that it where I am leaning today. A lot will depend on some engineering information.

One thing we also want all to know it that the access from Sugarbush Village will not be impaired with any grading change. People will ski be able to ski and and off and when the new lift is in, it will actually be more convenient for those that use is from the Village.

[Tin Woodsman]

Tin-

I hope you know I appreciate that you voice your opinions of SB doings. I sense that in general your advocacy for your opinions isn't typically derived solely from self interest but for the greater good of Sugarbushers everywhere as you see it, but. . .

Your concern with the location of the day care makes me think that maybe. . .

Are we going to be hearing the pitter patter or rather the clunkety clunk of the little ski boots of powder hungry little Woodsmen in the near future?

Please forgive me for prying.

Respectfully,

YS

YS -

No problem at all. In fact, you're too late. My little rockstar arrived 15 months ago...


and my opinions on the drawbacks of the current (and future) set-up are based on personal experience. In fact, I don't think I've spoken with a single parent who doesn't view this set-up as a liability.

EDIT: I am an internet idiot and don't know how to resize this. Anyone? Bueller?

Edit 2: guess I'm only half as stupid as I thought I was.

[Tin Woodsman]

It is hard to address everything in enough detail to satisfy all, but I will try to answer the questions raised, and as I said I am happy to show people in person the renderings and walk through our thought process of many months.

First of all, the plan is the result of a lot of input from many on our team, from people know know the industry and from person site visits to other areas. Yes, it would be ideal to include day care in one buidling. But the code really adds a significant amount of space and adds greatly to the cost. Given that day care is utilized by relatively few people, we decided that the existing facility while not perfect is more than adequate. Sugarbush actually had one of the first day care facilities in the ski business, and I beleive it has been in this location for many years. In speaking to quite a few mothers will young children, they would all agree that it would be ideal to have everything in one spot, but they were most concerned with having all the on snow kids programs in one building and that toddler care could remain where it is.

As far a grading goes, we will be doing it in two phases. There will be improvement with this phase and further ones in the next phase as we put in a new Village lift. This new lift will likely occur with the additional residences. Our goal is to create much better beginner terrain for both adults and children so their will be regrading near the children's ski school.

One thing we also want all to know it that the access from Sugarbush Village will not be impaired with any grading change. People will ski be able to ski and and off and when the new lift is in, it will actually be more convenient for those that use is from the Village.

Win -

Again, thanks for your input here. Your presence here to set things straight on occasion is truly unique in the business. Can you elaborate on what kind of cost/space requirements the regulations would have foisted upon you had you chosen to integrate day care into the new bldg? Also, will there be a cafeteria in the kids ski school bldg for non-skiing parents and kids to simply hang out in, away from the hustle and bustle of the GH lodge?

[win]

I have got to run to prepare for tonight's DRB meeting. I don't have the exact day care requirement in my memory but I can get them. I think you responded before I fully edited by answers. Coffee shop in the Adult School/Rental building.

Now that I have seen "Little Tin" how could anyone get mad at a father of a kid who is "cuter than a bugs ear." Only Smootharc will undertand that phrase.

[Yard Sale]

Tin-

Congrats. Nice work. That's a cute looking future powder ripper you've got there.

I don't disagree with you regarding the PITA set up of having the day school over the bridge. Of my 4 kids, 3 have spent weekends over there. I'm on my last one (18 months old). I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. With the prospect of all 4 being on mountain looming in the not too distant future, I guess it's easier for me to be ok with the "necessary consession" SV has opted to make in this case because my day care callous is well developed and I'm almost done with that phase. Part of me is going to miss it. Clearly, I have too many children and my brain is mush.