Claybrook/Ski School/Patrol Only

[Dawn Patrol]

Since Dawn Patrol once wrote about hit his head on the urinal shelf I'm gonna assume Dawn is a he.

I think that lift line priority should be extended to those who purchase one day lift tickets; after all, they are paying the most for that particular days skiing. Everyone else with a season pass is skiing on a substantial discount.

As a CB owner, I was surprised at this additional benefit; I personally would prefer that all of us be treated equally once we leave our lodging. It does have the potential to create bad feelings but the real world impact is minimal. I also see this as one additional perk that will hopefully result in a 100% sales at CB.

Dawn Patrol, first track privileges are available to you; from the SB website:

"Powder-Day First Tracks: “When it’s snowing, we’re going,” is the motto here. The decision will be made the afternoon before and will be posted on the snow report.

Any-Day First Tracks: Just because it isn’t scheduled, doesn’t mean we won’t go. Put together a group of two or more, let us know you want to go by noon the day before, and we’ll take you up the hill for some early morning skiing and riding."

You could also join the ski patrol; they get to ski both before and after the lifts are closed.

See you all on the slopes; it's all good here!

Any word on how much they are charging for first tracks?

And I never said I hit my head on the glove rack... Not sure where you got that from...

[bill-now]

"I would think however there is potential for a greater impact, if the policy permits Clay Brook owners to bring friends/guests and if so does the Liftie have to police that line as well?"

The line cutting passes are only valid for owners and immediate family (the card has a picture ID) and they only apply to the SB and GH chairs. In my case we have four cards for a three bedroom unit.

Why aren't you guys out skiing?

[bill-now]

Dawn patrol, my bad, it was some one else who banged their melon on the shelf.

I think cost of the first tracks is $75. A LOT cheaper than a CB unit, if that's all you want. More info at:

http://www.sugarbush.com/vermont-ski.../groomer-rides

[ScoobySnack]

You and others have referenced that this is not really expected to cause any real inconvenience if lift lines to non-CB skiers, but on busy weekend/holidays when CB is full, it could add an additional 500 or more people or so with line-cut privileges at the two most popular lifts (depending on how many cut passes per share/rental). Would that really be negligible? (I'm genuinely asking, not being sarcastic).

Is it too much to ask to read back through the thread and get the numbers? Having read what I've already posted here, I don't see hwo anyone could come up with the notion that there could be even close to 500 people on the mountain with the line cutting passes.

61 units
144 total bedrooms

Your 500 estimate would imply that:

1) All 61 units are sold
2) All 61 units are occupied on that weekend
3) There are 3.5 people in each and every bedroom (not unit - bedroom) who are in the owner's nuclear family.

None of those assumptions are true, and some of them are grossly inaccurate, even if this were Utah.

You're looking at about 100-150 people max at any given time. A few will be at North. A few will be in the lodge. Many will be elsewhere on the mountain. Very few will actually be noticeable cutting the lift line at SB and GH.

Tin, I'm estimating that # based on the fact that kids count. Studios and 1 BRs = 4-5 people (2 adults and 2-3 kids), 2BRs=6 people, #brs = 8, etc. And during holiday weekends, yes I am assuming that these are all occupied/rented. This alone makes over 400 people. Furthermore, this is a perk to owners who are not currently staying at Claybrook at the time. As it has been noted that many CB owners are also Vermonters, this adds to the list. So I did not pull 500 people out of the air, I did the math, and think it is sound with the assumption that the units would be filled to reasonable capacity.

[rfm]

"I would think however there is potential for a greater impact, if the policy permits Clay Brook owners to bring friends/guests and if so does the Liftie have to police that line as well?"

The line cutting passes are only valid for owners and immediate family (the card has a picture ID) and they only apply to the SB and GH chairs. In my case we have four cards for a three bedroom unit.

Why aren't you guys out skiing?

Thanks

Fair enough and at least for me time to move on....

[madhavok]

Why do people keep GUESSING there are only a small number of cutter passes? There is no way to possibly know because there are too many variables!

How many passes are allowed per unit or per bed? Do sofa bed sleepers count? Or do any family members with the same last name qualify? How many units are only quarter share ownership? If they all were, and they gave out only 2 passes per bedroom you’re looking at 144 bedrooms x 2 people per bed x 4 (quarter share ownership) = 1152 total passes!

And since many Claybrook owners already own a home in Vermont do you really think their only skiing one out of every 4 weeks?

Now the real impact is going to be when this privilege is extended to the other residences they plan of building.

[ScoobySnack]

Ok, I retract my previous post. It was based on the fact that I was under the impression that this applied to renters as well as owners. That is where my #s came from. If this perk is for owners only, then my apologies for adding any more fuel. I still disagree philosophically, but agree that it really probably will not make a significant impact as the program appears to be somewhat limited. It's not worth the aggravation, though at least drawing attention to the slippery slope (no pun intended - really) potential of this is still pertinent.

[gone.skiing]

And I never said I hit my head on the glove rack... Not sure where you got that from...

Your posts in this thread give that impression.

[Dawn Patrol]

Let's look at what we've changed. We have the new base lodge and CRP, the condo units and Timbers, early and late skiing moved to South and Cat skiing. Who do these mostly cater to? Sure they're available to everyone, but who was in mind when they were built? Let's continue looking. Northridge has been down more times it's been up. I haven't even been on it all season and without it North is useless. North Lynx chair hasn't spun all season. (Maybe one or two days). Snowmaking....I won't even start. From all these sales what's improved the ski-ability of the mountain? So now sure. Let's cater once again to CB. Anything for a buck.

I agree with this 100%

Everyone here bills CB owners as saviors meanwhile near all of the costly upgrades have been catered directly at them, not the skier.... And now they get to cut the skiers in line too...

Any word from an MRG CoOp member on whether or not they cut the day pass holders there? After all, the coop owners at MRG surely float a higher percentage of MRG than Claybrook owners do Sugarbush....

[Tin Woodsman]

Not to mention a full price pass here is $1400....

Everyone I spoke to thinks this is bs. If Sugarbush gets a 170 day season (long) with 300,000 skier days, thats roughly 1750 skiers per day at sugarbush. Claybrook Cutters could make up 10% of all skiers on a given day.

No worries Win, you dont' need to apologize, and I won't apologize for telling everyone I know about your policy..

Your math continues to astound and disappoint. You've taken the highest possible estimate of Claybrook users and then compared that with a figure that has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. While the average may be 1750, as I'm sure you well know, the majority of those skier visits occur on weekends and holidays. The numbers are more likely to be 500 or so on a typical weekday and 3000-4000 or more on a typical weekend/holiday. As discussed previously, it is unlikely that you would ever see more than 100-150 Clay Brook owners on the hill on any given weekend, and the more I think about it, the more I think that even that number is high. So in reality, you're looking at a 3-5% increase, at most, and of course a 0% impact on all lifts besides GH and SB, which any jamoke knows to avoid at rush hour.

[Tin Woodsman]

Well looks like the hand writing is on the wall... For those who don't think it will have an impact, win is already elluding the new residences will have the same cutter pass... It's a shame we'll have to persue this from a monetary, legal and publicity stance...

Good luck with that law suit.

[Dawn Patrol]

http://www.sugarbush.com/about-vermo...t/future-plans

Most importantly, we are committed to placing our [Claybrook owning] guest’s interest first and making sure that we are a place where all of our [Claybrook owning] guests feel appreciated at all times.

Fixed it for you Win!

[Tin Woodsman]

Why do people keep GUESSING there are only a small number of cutter passes? There is no way to possibly know because there are too many variables!

How many passes are allowed per unit or per bed? Do sofa bed sleepers count? Or do any family members with the same last name qualify? How many units are only quarter share ownership? If they all were, and they gave out only 2 passes per bedroom you’re looking at 144 bedrooms x 2 people per bed x 4 (quarter share ownership) = 1152 total passes!

And since many Claybrook owners already own a home in Vermont do you really think their only skiing one out of every 4 weeks?

Now the real impact is going to be when this privilege is extended to the other residences they plan of building.

Even if you assume that there are two people for each bed, which is nonsense (there are singles, couples with no kids, couples with one kid, and empty nesters who own units), you then have to factor in that each unit can only be occupied by one owner at a time. Moreover, not all 144 bedrooms have owners in the first place, as 9 of the 61 units have no owners at all. The only factor countering all of that is that 25% of owners have a home somewhere else in VT. Are we to assume that all of those are at SB every weekend and are using their passes? You guys are so busy getting worked up into hysteria over this that you've lost the ability to think straight.

[madhavok]

Not to mention a full price pass here is $1400....

Everyone I spoke to thinks this is bs. If Sugarbush gets a 170 day season (long) with 300,000 skier days, thats roughly 1750 skiers per day at sugarbush. Claybrook Cutters could make up 10% of all skiers on a given day.

No worries Win, you dont' need to apologize, and I won't apologize for telling everyone I know about your policy..

Your math continues to astound and disappoint. You've taken the highest possible estimate of Claybrook users and then compared that with a figure that has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. While the average may be 1750, as I'm sure you well know, the majority of those skier visits occur on weekends and holidays. The numbers are more likely to be 500 or so on a typical weekday and 3000-4000 or more on a typical weekend/holiday. As discussed previously, it is unlikely that you would ever see more than 100-150 Clay Brook owners on the hill on any given weekend, and the more I think about it, the more I think that even that number is high. So in reality, you're looking at a 3-5% increase, at most, and of course a 0% impact on all lifts besides GH and SB, which any jamoke knows to avoid at rush hour.

I'm sure Sugarbush can figure the exact number of clay cutters from the scanning info they collect. Oh wait, the cutter line doesn't get scanned, not like the scanners work anyway.

Tin you claim there will be 0% impact from Claybrook on all lifts besides GH and SB? Now what is going to stop these privileged people from using the ski patrol / school line on the other lifts or at North? Especially since we only have lift line attendants at the base.

[WWF-VT]

Not to mention a full price pass here is $1400....

Everyone I spoke to thinks this is bs. If Sugarbush gets a 170 day season (long) with 300,000 skier days, thats roughly 1750 skiers per day at sugarbush. Claybrook Cutters could make up 10% of all skiers on a given day.

No worries Win, you dont' need to apologize, and I won't apologize for telling everyone I know about your policy..

Your math continues to astound and disappoint. You've taken the highest possible estimate of Claybrook users and then compared that with a figure that has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. While the average may be 1750, as I'm sure you well know, the majority of those skier visits occur on weekends and holidays. The numbers are more likely to be 500 or so on a typical weekday and 3000-4000 or more on a typical weekend/holiday. As discussed previously, it is unlikely that you would ever see more than 100-150 Clay Brook owners on the hill on any given weekend, and the more I think about it, the more I think that even that number is high. So in reality, you're looking at a 3-5% increase, at most, and of course a 0% impact on all lifts besides GH and SB, which any jamoke knows to avoid at rush hour.

I agree with Tin Woodsman on a low estimate of numbers using these passes. I have witnessed first hand on the recent holiday weekends the very small number of CB passholders in the ski school line. Lines are generally not a problem at Sugarbush. On the busiest day of the Xmas break I think the longest line I was in at Super Bravo chair was less than 15 minutes and that was because HG and Castlerock were not running.