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  1. #1
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    The Future of SB's Classic Gladed Trails

    This topic has been touched on in bits and pieces within other threads, but I think it's worth full exploring. If anyone has taken a moment to read Jay Appleton's excellent treatise on Eastern glade skiing (www.treeskier.com), one has to be concerned about the current and long-term health of the various gladed trails at SB. Classics like (Murphy's) Glade, Lower Moonshine, Sleeper, Lower Domino, Paradise, and Sunrise use to have far more trees on them. I'd include Brambles, but that's already destroyed in favor of GMVS - so be it. Others like Ripcord are growing wider by the year, especially on skiers' left. Due in part to snowmaking, overzealous mowing in the off-season, and lack of planning, those trees are slowly but surely dying off. To my eyes, I see absolutely zero effort to promote any semblance of protection or regeneration so as to ensure that the next generation of skiers can come to enjoy the same beautiful phenomenon as their predecessors. While I understand there are limits at LP given its presence on USFS land, I view this as a tremendous shame, and something that is very much out of character for a resort and an ownership group that tends to pay attention to these sorts of details. While SB isn't MRG and shouldn't try to be, this is one innovation that must be imported if the fundamental character of SB's terrain is to remain intact.


  2. #2
    This has come up from time to time. I never get the feeling that anything has changed. We get snowmaking damage each year and blow-downs and people hacking their own runs but I have yet to see a marked regeneration zone. Well at least not since the late 90's when they allowed the top of Sunrise to grow to be narrower and allowed part of the old gondola line to regrow on lower grinder.
    Maybe Sugarbush is doing a lot and we never notice but I think publicity should be part of the overall environmental plan. The plan should include telling people what you are doing and maybe indicating as much on the mountain. I think sugarbush should set up some bold orange police tape or something to let everyone know that we have a regen zone. Most of the woods skiers that I know would stay away from those areas. Hell, most of the woods skiers I know would be more than happy to hike up the mountain and put the tape up themselves (if it didn't block some great stash.)

    Hmmm. I guess it would be bad if they just put the police tape all around all of slide brook except the designated trails. Ok, scratch that. I vote for small regen zones. like, 40-100 feet down the side of a trail or something.

  3. #3
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    It's been extremely successful and very much respected at MRG, so I have reason to believe that wouldn't be the same hear. Heck, it could be used as a stop on some sort of eco-tour of the mountain, including trips into Slide Brook.

    Anything they do will have to involve regen zones, skier education, and a substantial modification of snowmaking practices on the impacted trails.

  4. #4
    I am no expert on this topic, but when I was riding Heaven Gates either on Turkey day or Friday, I noticed the snow really piling up on the trees along Ripcord. I then heard a large crack sound and saw the tree collapse that cracked under the weight of the man made snow. I think that there would need to be some additional efforts by the snow makers to monitor the snow guns to prevent this from happening. I was actually surprised to see the lack of attention to the guns after they are put in place. There were several that were just making a good base in the woods not on the trail.

  5. #5
    I can also say that I skied some woods on the other side of LP and the damage was really surprising....but I think it is a combination of factors including acid rain. There were lots of softwoods down...and far from the trails. But snowmaking damage off of Ripcord, for some reason, looks like hell. The cutoff from Paradise over to Ripcord also looks like hell. The rest of the mountain looks good IMHO.

    At Ellen, that line on FIS is extending further and further to skier's left. It really is growing a lot...just in my 10 years or so of skiing there....and I am really not thrilled to see people hacking in those woods. Those woods are so high that it takes them a lot of time to recover.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by summitchallenger
    I can also say that I skied some woods on the other side of LP and the damage was really surprising....but I think it is a combination of factors including acid rain.
    I think that's well down on the list of factors, not least b/c of the limitations put into place on SO2 emmissions over the last 20 years or so.

    There were lots of softwoods down...and far from the trails.
    Could be remants of the numerous ice/wind events in the last twelve months.

    But snowmaking damage off of Ripcord, for some reason, looks like hell. The cutoff from Paradise over to Ripcord also looks like hell. The rest of the mountain looks good IMHO.
    That whole triangle where the cut off is and over towards Ripcord is an absolute mess that should be cordoned off for a few years. Won't make a difference unless the snowmaking practices change though. Are you not concerned about the state of Murphy's Tree, oops Glade?

    At Ellen, that line on FIS is extending further and further to skier's left. It really is growing a lot...just in my 10 years or so of skiing there....and I am really not thrilled to see people hacking in those woods. Those woods are so high that it takes them a lot of time to recover.
    Left that off the list, but definitely a good catch.

  7. #7
    Murphy's has trees on it??????? I thought those were fake because the real ones were cut down by Les Otten.

  8. #8

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    the left off FIS is one of the best shots at ME.

    MRG has damage too, they aren't 100% innocent..

  9. #9
    I agree with Hardbooter that if areas are cordoned off like at MRG, skiers will respect that and stay away. The problem is getting the right areas cordoned off. How did they do it at MRG? Who decided what areas to protect and who put up the barriers?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by villager
    I agree with Hardbooter that if areas are cordoned off like at MRG, skiers will respect that and stay away. The problem is getting the right areas cordoned off. How did they do it at MRG? Who decided what areas to protect and who put up the barriers?
    MRG has a forester on staff I think...or a consultant who advised them as to what to do and where.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Tracks
    the left off FIS is one of the best shots at ME.

    MRG has damage too, they aren't 100% innocent..
    That's looking in the rear view mirror. What's happening now? They spend money to have a forester come in every year and evaluate the health of the mountain forest and make recommendations. Jay Appleton, head of the Co-op Board, has (I believe) a Masters in Forestry himself. They know there's been damage, especially in places like Paradise, Glade, Quacky woods and various upper mountain woods shots. That's why they are doing something about it in an organized, broad-based fashion. While in certain respects they've got even larger problems than SB, I guarantee you they'll be in a FAR better situation than SB 30 years from now on present trends.

  12. #12
    I think sugarbush could get the same forestry guy and probably Jay Appleton and a bunch of the on-staff sugarbush folks (some woods skiers and maybe someone from snowmaking who's seen the damage) and maybe Craig Spear who is in charge of the slidebrook guides. A group like that could do a great job of finding stuff to close off. With a few exceptions, I think most of the damage is near the ski trails. I'd like it if they ran it past a bunch of the locals and some of us weekend warriors too just to make sure that we're not messing with somebody's secret stash.
    I suspect that parts of paradise glades would be be better off without skiers or and summertime hand-tool intervention for a few years. I'm sure we could find the lines that are good skiing and leave them alone and rope off a lot of the more marginal lines that have been opened over the years.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by summitchallenger
    Quote Originally Posted by villager
    I agree with Hardbooter that if areas are cordoned off like at MRG, skiers will respect that and stay away. The problem is getting the right areas cordoned off. How did they do it at MRG? Who decided what areas to protect and who put up the barriers?
    MRG has a forester on staff I think...or a consultant who advised them as to what to do and where.
    Sugarbush has the GMFS as overseeers of our land use at LP. Lots of communication and consultation goes on between the two on a constant yearround basis.

    At Mellon there are some trails where the trees have retaken terrain....lower FIS is the best example that comes to mind..protected from acid rain from the 60/70's and less exposure to the weather. A healthy trees will support alot of snow, dead trees/branches by way of wind, disease, acid rain, lightning, exposure on any upper mountain can crack whether it's laden with man-made or natural snow. That's how "above the treeline" becomes above the treeline. Mt. Washington and Mt Lafeyette over in the Whites have alot of "above the treeline" by eastern standards with no snowmaking. It's very hard for mother nature to grow new trees in the alpinezones. It's just the natural evolution of things with some assistance from us humans. I am confident that if there are some areas that need to be rested due to overuse I would hope that they are closed off.

    FWIW during the summer there are several areas of LP where mountain bikers are prohibited from going.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ski_resort_observer
    Quote Originally Posted by summitchallenger
    Quote Originally Posted by villager
    I agree with Hardbooter that if areas are cordoned off like at MRG, skiers will respect that and stay away. The problem is getting the right areas cordoned off. How did they do it at MRG? Who decided what areas to protect and who put up the barriers?
    MRG has a forester on staff I think...or a consultant who advised them as to what to do and where.
    Sugarbush has the GMFS as overseeers of our land use at LP. Lots of communication and consultation goes on between the two on a constant yearround basis.

    At Mellon there are some trails where the trees have retaken terrain....lower FIS is the best example that comes to mind..protected from acid rain from the 60/70's and less exposure to the weather. A healthy trees will support alot of snow, dead trees/branches by way of wind, disease, acid rain, lightning, exposure on any upper mountain can crack whether it's laden with man-made or natural snow. That's how "above the treeline" becomes above the treeline. Mt. Washington and Mt Lafeyette over in the Whites have alot of "above the treeline" by eastern standards with no snowmaking. It's very hard for mother nature to grow new trees in the alpinezones. It's just the natural evolution of things with some assistance from us humans. I am confident that if there are some areas that need to be rested due to overuse I would hope that they are closed off.




    I was surprised this summer not to have seen any areas closed off especially around Paradise. Given the length of the ski season I would think it's more important to close areas during the 7-8 months when there's no skiing. That being said, given the explosion in off piste skiing, this is going to be an increasingly important issue in the coming years. The other thing is that this not something that one can simply throw money at to remediate. Addressing the issue is a long term challenge which neither SB nor other areas can tackle by continuing past practices. There simply is a lot more traffic there then there ever was before.

    BTW- nice to chat about forest management, web cams, frozen pizza, yada yada yada but can we get some freaking weather to talk about. I know it's only 12/5, but there is 'nothing on the horizon. We need a communal web enabled snow dance.

    FWIW during the summer there are several areas of LP where mountain bikers are prohibited from going.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardbooter
    I'd like it if they ran it past a bunch of the locals and some of us weekend warriors too just to make sure that we're not messing with somebody's secret stash.
    But then it wouldn't be a secret anymore!
    "Quietly Heartbroken Tennis Player."

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