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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by madhavok
    Lastly what is there to worry about? Sugarbush has already invested in a new gladed trail system, (Eden, deeper sleeper, egans, & lews line) which will ensure the availabity of Sugarbush glade skiing through its next fifty years.
    Also want to chime in that this is exactly the wrong idea. Frankly, skiers seem to be much better now. Many more people are hitting the woods and those metal edges are destroying trees young and old. I'm all for exploring, but I want people in 50 years to have the same thrill. Sure, sometimes you can get in a place that can be too tight, but over the last five years i would say the unofficial trail map has grown considerably due to use and edges.

    I also get jealous when i think about people who had the chance to ski trails as they were originally cut 40 years ago. Glades looked freakin awesome. I would love to see planting and orange bands there...even if we couldn't ski it the whole thing would hold snow better. Paradise used to ski far more like MRG version, what we have now is a bit more weak. And as far as trails skiing the way they originally intended, i'm sure downspout was a blast in the gondola days due to far less skier traffic.



    That's off topic, but let's get planting and then maybe we can open up some more legit areas as well....and maybe a few runs off the backside to lincoln while we're at it.

  2. #32
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    Re: From the other, locked post

    Quote Originally Posted by villager
    Treeskier, I'll help you with the Paradise regen zone tree transplantation project next summer if you can figure out how to get permission.
    Tree, as always I am in. I am sure you know the right people to talk to to get it done.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  3. #33
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    [quote="mattlucas"]
    Quote Originally Posted by madhavok
    Lastly what is there to worry about? Sugarbush has already invested in a new gladed trail system, (Eden, deeper sleeper, egans, & lews line) which will ensure the availabity of Sugarbush glade skiing through its next fifty years.
    Also want to chime in that this is exactly the wrong idea. Frankly, skiers seem to be much better now. Many more people are hitting the woods and those metal edges are destroying trees young and old. I'm all for exploring, but I want people in 50 years to have the same thrill. Sure, sometimes you can get in a place that can be too tight, but over the last five years i would say the unofficial trail map has grown considerably due to use and edges.
    quote]

    I have to dissagree with this statement. If anything there has been considerable growth in large areas in the side country and blowdowns and remnants from prior ice storms have come down. Last winter we were having that conversation waiting for the bus at slide brook. I will say that some of the main traveled routes have seen maintenence but there are vast areas that are now much more "swacky" to coin a phrase. I do not think the unofficial trail map has grown, just your understanding of the unoficial trail map has grown.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  4. #34
    I remember skiing with my two kids on Glades when there were trees. My youngest is now 22 years old. Valley House Traverse was 6 feet wide. What an adventure back 25 years ago when we would travel to the top in the old gondolas. No Ripcord, no Heaven's Gate. Boy, I must be getting old to remember these things.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk
    I have to dissagree with this statement. If anything there has been considerable growth in large areas in the side country and blowdowns and remnants from prior ice storms have come down. Last winter we were having that conversation waiting for the bus at slide brook. I will say that some of the main traveled routes have seen maintenence but there are vast areas that are now much more "swacky" to coin a phrase. I do not think the unofficial trail map has grown, just your understanding of the unoficial trail map has grown.
    Again, my personal experience FWIW. I run into many more people in the woods than i used to and you can see edge marks on the bark of trees. I believe those trees, if young, get knocked over and die over a winter or two. That isn't malicious on anyone's part, but people should be told to avoid some areas for awhile.

    I'm really not talking about hiking the ridge to ellen for an hour and bombing at will, but rather anything that gets skied consistently (read=accessed by heavens gate). I'm adventurous, but approximately as talented as I was 15 years ago...and those lines are wide(r) and easy(r) now.

    Also, I was living in the valley for storm of the century, and have a lot of photos of the damage but my motivation in pointing this out really "stems" from seeing old pictures of how awesome the glades were pre-tree disease and bravo/hg lifts with the lack of maintenance that has occurred to keep the forests healthier over the past 40 years. No blame either, i just think people were far less aware of the trees disappearing even five years ago.

  6. #36
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    Looks like you are talking about different areas - upper mountain softwoods vs. lower mtn hardwoods. You may both be right.

  7. #37
    Here's what skiing at Sugarbush/Glen Ellen used to look like back in the 1960's, compliments of VT Life (my scans from a few years back):

    Lincoln Peak--likely Jester:



    Devil's Elbow at Glen Ellen:



    Rim Run (on the bottom):



    Things have really changed.

  8. #38
    Those are some nice old photos... what's the date on the Vermont Life?
    Ithaca is (not) Vermont (but it is gorges)

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Strat
    Those are some nice old photos... what's the date on the Vermont Life?
    The mag is dated Winter 1965. So those pics are likely from the 1964-1965 ski season.

  10. #40
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    I don't think that 2nd picture is Elbow. Looks more like the top of Rim Run.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
    I don't think that 2nd picture is Elbow. Looks more like the top of Rim Run.
    That's what Vermont Life says it is. The big picture with the woman is the former Elbow...years before it was widened and straightened.

  12. #42
    Sweet vintage pics! I would have loved to ski those trails back then.....and who needs gortex, soft shells and primaloft anyway? Wool is back in baby
    "Quietly Heartbroken Tennis Player."

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
    I don't think that 2nd picture is Elbow. Looks more like the top of Rim Run.
    Ohhh, I see what you are saying. That looks like she is standing right at the very top...with FIS starting just on the other side of that little knoll of trees. The ridgeline is extending to MRG in the background. That is interesting. Certainly could be a mistake on their part...I will have to look at the mag picture again when I get home.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by summitchallenger
    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
    I don't think that 2nd picture is Elbow. Looks more like the top of Rim Run.
    That's what Vermont Life says it is. The big picture with the woman is the former Elbow...years before it was widened and straightened.
    Then Vermont Life is wrong. Look at the background - that's the ridgeline stretching towards MRG. Also, look at her shadow. If she was skiing Elbow near the top, her shadow would be much more to the left side of her. The fact that it's straight in front of her implies thaty she's skiing directly north, like on the top of Rim Run.

  15. #45
    Hmm....

    I taught at Glen Ellen for a few winters in the 70's. What SB did to the SB and GE in the 80's remains a huge crime in my opinion. Anyone else remember the three huge rolls that used to be on Downspout?

    Devil's Elbow was nothing like the Elbow of today. It was narrow and gnarly. I think this photo is from lower down on the trail. It really could be Elbow.

    Mike

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