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  1. #16
    I was surprised this summer not to have seen any areas closed off especially around Paradise.
    During the summer Paradise is closed off to mountain biking. Anything above Super Bravo is closed to mountain biking. Stop in the the shop and we can give you our mountain biking trail map.



    Just about all of the mountain bikers that come to the Bush are downhillers meaning they have bikes built for going downhill with very little capability, gearwise, to bike uphill.
    www.firstlightphotographics.com
    Sugarbusher since 1970
    Skiing is a dance, and the mountain always leads.

  2. #17
    IMO this should not even be an issue. Trees die off for a variety of reasons, most of which are environmental & weather related (canít blame Sugarbush for that!) Yes human interaction also plays a role but realistically once the gladed trails were cut a path of forest deterioration was started. This wonít be reversed unless you want to permanently close the trails and invest in plantings (which is neither fun for guests nor cheap!).

    Lastly what is there to worry about? Sugarbush has already invested in a new gladed trail system, (Eden, deeper sleeper, egans, & lews line) which will ensure the availabity of Sugarbush glade skiing through its next fifty years.

    The one point I will give you is that itís sad the GMVS has taken over Brambles, but its obvious they have more than their foot in the door, and Iím sure it wonít take them long to expand their trail ownership.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ski_resort_observer
    I was surprised this summer not to have seen any areas closed off especially around Paradise.
    During the summer Paradise is closed off to mountain biking. Anything above Super Bravo is closed to mountain biking. Stop in the the shop and we can give you our mountain biking trail map.

    Just about all of the mountain bikers that come to the Bush are downhillers meaning they have bikes built for going downhill with very little capability, gearwise, to bike uphill.
    I was aware of that but hiking up there I expected to see areas roped off.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by madhavok
    The one point I will give you is that itís sad the GMVS has taken over Brambles, but its obvious they have more than their foot in the door, and Iím sure it wonít take them long to expand their trail ownership.
    I just hate it when they decide they want to train on both Inverness and Elbow, so you can't use either one...and get even more steamed when I ride up GMX to see Elbow roped off and nobody using it for said training. They do that at Burke as well every once in a while.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by madhavok
    IMO this should not even be an issue. Trees die off for a variety of reasons, most of which are environmental & weather related (canít blame Sugarbush for that!) Yes human interaction also plays a role but realistically once the gladed trails were cut a path of forest deterioration was started. This wonít be reversed unless you want to permanently close the trails and invest in plantings (which is neither fun for guests nor cheap!).

    Lastly what is there to worry about? Sugarbush has already invested in a new gladed trail system, (Eden, deeper sleeper, egans, & lews line) which will ensure the availabity of Sugarbush glade skiing through its next fifty years.

    The one point I will give you is that itís sad the GMVS has taken over Brambles, but its obvious they have more than their foot in the door, and Iím sure it wonít take them long to expand their trail ownership.
    So the long-term solution is to continually move to new gladed areas after the older ones are destroyed?
    -Kenny

  6. #21
    As most of you know I think, the Bush has done this sort of thing before, though I'm not exactly sure for what reasons... the original Birdland was a trail cut through what is now Egan's Woods, which was closed in the early 70's and allowed to regrow... check out SugarbushHistory.com for more...
    Ithaca is (not) Vermont (but it is gorges)

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2
    Quote Originally Posted by ski_resort_observer
    I was surprised this summer not to have seen any areas closed off especially around Paradise.
    During the summer Paradise is closed off to mountain biking. Anything above Super Bravo is closed to mountain biking. Stop in the the shop and we can give you our mountain biking trail map.

    Just about all of the mountain bikers that come to the Bush are downhillers meaning they have bikes built for going downhill with very little capability, gearwise, to bike uphill.
    I was aware of that but hiking up there I expected to see areas roped off.
    Despite the summits of the Bush being part of the Long Trail who usually don't hike much off the trail there are not enough hikers where that is a problem. Hiking is actually encouraged by the Bush and the GMNF. I better say I'm talking about the summer, not the winter. Mt Mansfield or Mt Manadnock(sic)(the most hiked mountain in the northeast) is a totally diferent story.
    www.firstlightphotographics.com
    Sugarbusher since 1970
    Skiing is a dance, and the mountain always leads.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Strat
    As most of you know I think, the Bush has done this sort of thing before, though I'm not exactly sure for what reasons... the original Birdland was a trail cut through what is now Egan's Woods, which was closed in the early 70's and allowed to regrow... check out SugarbushHistory.com for more...
    Well, if I am looking at these maps correctly, then it would appear that Birdland is now Stein's. Maybe I'm not looking at the right thing....

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by summitchallenger
    Quote Originally Posted by Strat
    As most of you know I think, the Bush has done this sort of thing before, though I'm not exactly sure for what reasons... the original Birdland was a trail cut through what is now Egan's Woods, which was closed in the early 70's and allowed to regrow... check out SugarbushHistory.com for more...
    Well, if I am looking at these maps correctly, then it would appear that Birdland is now Stein's. Maybe I'm not looking at the right thing....
    That's what I see.
    Glade is now Egan's.
    Birdland is now Stein's.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by summitchallenger
    Quote Originally Posted by Strat
    As most of you know I think, the Bush has done this sort of thing before, though I'm not exactly sure for what reasons... the original Birdland was a trail cut through what is now Egan's Woods, which was closed in the early 70's and allowed to regrow... check out SugarbushHistory.com for more...
    Well, if I am looking at these maps correctly, then it would appear that Birdland is now Stein's. Maybe I'm not looking at the right thing....
    You're not looking at them correctly.

    The old Birdland ran from the top of Stein's over to where Egan's Woods, Glade and Lower Birdland meet. Must have had one heck of a double fall line.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcyanks1
    Quote Originally Posted by madhavok
    IMO this should not even be an issue. Trees die off for a variety of reasons, most of which are environmental & weather related (canít blame Sugarbush for that!) Yes human interaction also plays a role but realistically once the gladed trails were cut a path of forest deterioration was started. This wonít be reversed unless you want to permanently close the trails and invest in plantings (which is neither fun for guests nor cheap!).

    Lastly what is there to worry about? Sugarbush has already invested in a new gladed trail system, (Eden, deeper sleeper, egans, & lews line) which will ensure the availabity of Sugarbush glade skiing through its next fifty years.

    The one point I will give you is that itís sad the GMVS has taken over Brambles, but its obvious they have more than their foot in the door, and Iím sure it wonít take them long to expand their trail ownership.
    So the long-term solution is to continually move to new gladed areas after the older ones are destroyed?
    Exactly. That's just an awful solution - ignoring the problem. Ues, trees die off for a variety of reasons, but the forest on mountains with ski areas is in a lot worse shape than the forest on mountains w/o them. I can't believe I didn't mention this in the first post, but look at the less that is Paradise Woods. It is a victim of over-cutting pure and simple and is in desperate need of proper forestry mgmt.

    What is to worry about? If you're content to see the classic gladed trails become just open boulevards like most trails in the East, be my guest. I'm certainly not, and I think those trails go a long way towards what makes SB's terrain special and different. Are you content to see snowmaking runs get wider and wider?

    As MRG has shown, you don't need to permanently close off entire trails, you need only work to create regen zones where tree islands can flourish. You will notice on Lower Moonshine, Lower Domino, Glade, Paradise and Sleeper that the mature trees are surrounded by grass and not saplings. Those trees will die off in the next 10-20 years and will have nothing to replace them. If action is taken now, there will be replacements already at a reasonable stage of maturity to backfill when they die.

    There's a reason why the Castlerock terrain is considered sacred. It's not just b/c of their steepness, it's their width and character. Narrow trails also hold snow much better b/c the wind can't get in them and the sunlight is blocked by the trees. This is one of the reason swhy CR often has the best snow on the mountain. All things being equal, Spillsville will have better snow surfaces than Ripcord due to this phenomenon. Your being content to simply allow things to continue on as they are betrays an alarming level of ignorance as to how mountain forests work, and the role they play in impacting the skiing experience in the East.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
    Quote Originally Posted by summitchallenger
    Quote Originally Posted by Strat
    As most of you know I think, the Bush has done this sort of thing before, though I'm not exactly sure for what reasons... the original Birdland was a trail cut through what is now Egan's Woods, which was closed in the early 70's and allowed to regrow... check out SugarbushHistory.com for more...
    Well, if I am looking at these maps correctly, then it would appear that Birdland is now Stein's. Maybe I'm not looking at the right thing....
    You're not looking at them correctly.

    The old Birdland ran from the top of Stein's over to where Egan's Woods, Glade and Lower Birdland meet. Must have had one heck of a double fall line.
    Correct... for whatever reason the links to the pertinent maps are screwed up... I have big copies on my old site...

    http://geocities.com/sugarbushhistor...es/oldmap5.jpg

    http://geocities.com/sugarbushhistor...es/oldmap6.jpg
    Ithaca is (not) Vermont (but it is gorges)

  13. #28

    From the other, locked post

    Treeskier, I'll help you with the Paradise regen zone tree transplantation project next summer if you can figure out how to get permission.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by summitchallenger
    I just hate it when they decide they want to train on both Inverness and Elbow, so you can't use either one...and get even more steamed when I ride up GMX to see Elbow roped off and nobody using it for said training. They do that at Burke as well every once in a while.

    I hear you on the elbow issue
    "Quietly Heartbroken Tennis Player."

  15. #30
    I think I saw something about them wanting to get the snow made on Inverness earlier this year. If I am not mistaken I think that they did not have Inverness open right away last year causing GMVS to train on Elbow. So, lets hope that they move the guns to Inverness before the 19th and maybe there won't be the training issues on Elbow. I certainly think that would be prudent.

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