Sugarbush to Focus on Moguls at Mount Ellen

[Tin Woodsman]

I'd think Northstar and/or Lower Northstar would be a candidate too. The latter could be done without eliminating a green route down to the NRE and GMX.

How so? Unless you're talking about the short little piece below the cut-off to Mainstream, which would sort of defeat the purpose anyway b/c it's tiny, I don't get it. Also, I would think that SB would want to keep as many avenues as possible into Times Sq there, b/c forcing those who don't want bumps from Lwr Northstar back onto Mainstream or the bottom of Cruiser isn't ideal.

[madhavok]

Sounds like anyone who already purchased a ME only season pass just had the rug pulled out from under them. Say goodbye to the classic cruisers & say hello to novice and intermediate moguls. Although on the plus side maybe ME tickets will be cheaper since that Cats will be running less.

[ski_resort_observer]

Sounds like anyone who already purchased a ME only season pass just had the rug pulled out from under them. Say goodbye to the classic cruisers & say hello to novice and intermediate moguls. Although on the plus side maybe ME tickets will be cheaper since that Cats will be running less.

total horsesh*t

[HowieT2]

I'd think Northstar and/or Lower Northstar would be a candidate too. The latter could be done without eliminating a green route down to the NRE and GMX.

How so? Unless you're talking about the short little piece below the cut-off to Mainstream, which would sort of defeat the purpose anyway b/c it's tiny, I don't get it. Also, I would think that SB would want to keep as many avenues as possible into Times Sq there, b/c forcing those who don't want bumps from Lwr Northstar back onto Mainstream or the bottom of Cruiser isn't ideal.

That's what I'm talking about and it's not that small. It's usually pretty clear since most people take Mainstream and it's one of the only areas that allows for a viable alternate route.

[Tin Woodsman]

Sounds like anyone who already purchased a ME only season pass just had the rug pulled out from under them. Say goodbye to the classic cruisers & say hello to novice and intermediate moguls. Although on the plus side maybe ME tickets will be cheaper since that Cats will be running less.

total horsesh*t

+1

[Tin Woodsman]

I'd think Northstar and/or Lower Northstar would be a candidate too. The latter could be done without eliminating a green route down to the NRE and GMX.

How so? Unless you're talking about the short little piece below the cut-off to Mainstream, which would sort of defeat the purpose anyway b/c it's tiny, I don't get it. Also, I would think that SB would want to keep as many avenues as possible into Times Sq there, b/c forcing those who don't want bumps from Lwr Northstar back onto Mainstream or the bottom of Cruiser isn't ideal.

That's what I'm talking about and it's not that small. It's usually pretty clear since most people take Mainstream and it's one of the only areas that allows for a viable alternate route.

Maybe it's just me being selfish, b/c that stretch is always uncrowded and usually has good snow late into a weekend day.

[jwt]

North bumps? Some of the best in the resort - because the're skied more than CR and have S/M for earlier base.

Bravo/Encore - only groomed to save base. Exterm/Upper FIS/left side Cliffs, then you have au natural Tumbler.Hammerhead - what more does one need for bumps? I'll take 'em all but not everyone wants to pound all the way down, all day long. Do we really need more? I'm just hoping none of these are those man-made bumps like in feeder-land ski hills.

Cruisers even have the sides for those of us who want a tight, straight line, trees on one side and soft snow that everyone pushes from the middle of trail.

Then, if we want even more bumps there are all those tree runs, which always turn into bump runs within days of opening. Sometimes hours.

I'm not a cruiser and don't have those type of skis to reduce chatter at 40 MPH, but they too need terrain.

And, to top it off, onlyevery third chair is full, most times the place is empty, so we got the capacity to tell them we have a bump mountain with out changing anything.
Tha's gotta be the reason - pull and spread - perception is reality - if that works - great - it's a big enough mountain to tale 30% more traffic- as long as it is spread over the two hills - without causing any pain in line.

[HowieT2]

I'd think Northstar and/or Lower Northstar would be a candidate too. The latter could be done without eliminating a green route down to the NRE and GMX.

How so? Unless you're talking about the short little piece below the cut-off to Mainstream, which would sort of defeat the purpose anyway b/c it's tiny, I don't get it. Also, I would think that SB would want to keep as many avenues as possible into Times Sq there, b/c forcing those who don't want bumps from Lwr Northstar back onto Mainstream or the bottom of Cruiser isn't ideal.

That's what I'm talking about and it's not that small. It's usually pretty clear since most people take Mainstream and it's one of the only areas that allows for a viable alternate route.

Maybe it's just me being selfish, b/c that stretch is always uncrowded and usually has good snow late into a weekend day.

Agreed. I like doing exterminator and then cruising down Northstar making a sharp left where Lower Northstar and Mainstream split.

[Bubba]

Lostone, you missed the point again. I'm never said that there aren't enough areas with mogul trails. The point is, there's nowhere to learn. That's the big difference.

It's not a banishing of groomers, or a desire to push out folks who want to ski groomers. It's a desire to help bring back a sport that once had a huge following, and for which a demand still exists. You know why you don't see people in the bumps? Because they're intimidated by the terrain. That's why there needs to be a serious offering of moguls on intermediate terrain. Does that mean Rim, Elbow, Cruiser, Which Way (not going to be terrain park, AFAIK), Northstar, Etc. will all be allowed to bump up? No. You may find portions of intermediate runs with moguls.

I assure you you aren't looking at a case where every run on the mountain is wall to wall bumps. But there will be more, and some will be on lower pitch trails.

Come up to Ellen this season, Shadyjay. I'd love to ski with you for the day, and get your opinion after you get to ride the mountain. I think you're putting words in my mouth here. It was never said here or in the article that the whole mountain was going to be moguls. It said the focus is going to be realigned toward moguls and all of the natural aspects of skiing.

And lostone, while I think you've brought up some valid points, I don't see things quite the same way. If you think for a minute that anyone in the operation places a lesser value on folks who just want to ski the cruisers, you're wrong. I think all of us on this forum know that they are a substantial portion of the paying public. No doubt.

But this is a segment of the market that has been ignored for too long. Sure, say what you will... there's plenty of bump runs. But that's not enough. Attention must be paid, proper instruction must be made available (and I don't mean PSIA's bump method). Bump skiers are people too

Why don't many recreational skiers ski bumps? Because they "can't" or because they're afraid. Can that be changed? Yup.

I'm stoked for this season. There will be terrain for everyone. You want cruisers? You'll have them. You want trees? You'll have them. You want bumps? You'll have them. You'll even be able to learn!

It's going to be good, and I don't think anyone will be disappointed.

So...
If you're not going to teach flexion and extension, absorption, pole swing, relaxation, focusing down the hill, skiing the sides of the bump, skiing the back of the bump, skiing the top of the bump, etc, etc, what are you going to be teaching?

[BushMogulMaster]

Lostone, you missed the point again. I'm never said that there aren't enough areas with mogul trails. The point is, there's nowhere to learn. That's the big difference.

It's not a banishing of groomers, or a desire to push out folks who want to ski groomers. It's a desire to help bring back a sport that once had a huge following, and for which a demand still exists. You know why you don't see people in the bumps? Because they're intimidated by the terrain. That's why there needs to be a serious offering of moguls on intermediate terrain. Does that mean Rim, Elbow, Cruiser, Which Way (not going to be terrain park, AFAIK), Northstar, Etc. will all be allowed to bump up? No. You may find portions of intermediate runs with moguls.

I assure you you aren't looking at a case where every run on the mountain is wall to wall bumps. But there will be more, and some will be on lower pitch trails.

Come up to Ellen this season, Shadyjay. I'd love to ski with you for the day, and get your opinion after you get to ride the mountain. I think you're putting words in my mouth here. It was never said here or in the article that the whole mountain was going to be moguls. It said the focus is going to be realigned toward moguls and all of the natural aspects of skiing.

And lostone, while I think you've brought up some valid points, I don't see things quite the same way. If you think for a minute that anyone in the operation places a lesser value on folks who just want to ski the cruisers, you're wrong. I think all of us on this forum know that they are a substantial portion of the paying public. No doubt.

But this is a segment of the market that has been ignored for too long. Sure, say what you will... there's plenty of bump runs. But that's not enough. Attention must be paid, proper instruction must be made available (and I don't mean PSIA's bump method). Bump skiers are people too

Why don't many recreational skiers ski bumps? Because they "can't" or because they're afraid. Can that be changed? Yup.

I'm stoked for this season. There will be terrain for everyone. You want cruisers? You'll have them. You want trees? You'll have them. You want bumps? You'll have them. You'll even be able to learn!

It's going to be good, and I don't think anyone will be disappointed.

So...
If you're not going to teach flexion and extension, absorption, pole swing, relaxation, focusing down the hill, skiing the sides of the bump, skiing the back of the bump, skiing the top of the bump, etc, etc, what are you going to be teaching?

I'm not running the program, and I'm not the spokesman. I can only speak to what I learned writing the article.

You'll have to wait for official feedback from the mountain on what the plan for instruction will be.

I can't get into the PSIA argument here. Read all of the threads about it on mogulskiing.net, and you can choose to agree to disagree, but that argument has no place here.

[BushMogulMaster]

For all of you really worried about a lack of cruisers, let me give you my personal opinion (remember... I'm just mogulskiing.net, I don't speak for Sugarbush!). I sure as heck hope we don't let bumps grow Elbow, Rim Rum, Cruiser, and Upper Northstar, for example. I'm a groomer at Mt. Ellen this winter! I need job security!

Of course, I'm also a fantatic bump skier, so I want bumps. But we'll definitely have cruisers. We better, or I won't have a job!

[Tin Woodsman]

Maybe it's just me being selfish, b/c that stretch is always uncrowded and usually has good snow late into a weekend day.

Agreed. I like doing exterminator and then cruising down Northstar making a sharp left where Lower Northstar and Mainstream split.[/quote]
Exactly. Sharp left turn over the edge, maybe catch a little air in the process, cruise down at Mach 2 and make a hard right into the flats. Good times.

Is it winter yet?

[Windshield Ski Bum]

I applaud SBs attempt to bring back bum skiing, but you only have to go to MRG to find fabulous moguls.

We have a family theory (credit to my daughter Abby) that people "don't ski moguls" because they can't. It has little to do with their physical strength or experience, but more to do with their ability to see, and think in three dimensions. (spacial relations)

You simply can't ski a three dimensional line if you only see two dimensions.

It is known that more than half of the population only sees in two dimensions. Also, there is a higher percentage of these two dimensional people in the female side of the equation.

People who only see in two dimensions have trouble assembling toys, tying knots, reading blueprints, etc.

3D people have no trouble with these tasks, and usually are the "go to guy" to fix or build things.

We are all different, and all have different talents. It is also interesting that us 3D people don't even know that the rest of the world doesn't see what we do, but if you can't see a line in all those bumps, how can you be expected to ski them well.

We all know some great skiers, maybe even accomplished racers, who "don't ski bumps" My guess is none of these folks are carpenter's, draftsman , plumbers, mechanics, etc. Our theory is that when they look at the mogul field they don't see a line, just a bunch of obstacles. It would be like me trying to read music. (Just not happening).

It's not that 2D people can't learn to ski bumps, It is just going to be a lot harder, and not a lot of fun.

I am interested in what other mogul hounds (and non mogul skiers) think about Abby's theory.

[Michael Matola]

What about guys like me? I'm a snowboarder who *wants* to learn to ride the bumps, but I can't seem to get it worked out on my own and I haven't had much luck getting instruction.

Like I mentioned in the similar thread on Epicski, I would be interested to know if Sugarbush now plans to offer (better) mogul instruction for snowboarders. I've taken lessons in mogul riding at several resorts, Sugarbush included, and I've generally been underwhelmed.

Also -- they're not planning on moving the park from Sunny D are they?

[HowieT2]

Maybe it's just me being selfish, b/c that stretch is always uncrowded and usually has good snow late into a weekend day.

Agreed. I like doing exterminator and then cruising down Northstar making a sharp left where Lower Northstar and Mainstream split.

Exactly. Sharp left turn over the edge, maybe catch a little air in the process, cruise down at Mach 2 and make a hard right into the flats. Good times.

Is it winter yet?[/quote]

October is the tough month to make it through. Once I make it to november with my birthday and election day, I'm in the home stretch.