Gate House Lodge

[Tin Woodsman]

I suspect that regardless of all the talk about wanting to get it right, the prime directive was $$,

Regardless of whether that's true or not, isn't that part of wanting to "get it right?" If you don't have the finances to do it right, why do a half-assed job? Be patient and wait until you've got the right plan, and the right budget.

Fair enough. I suspect it's the money that's driving the need to re-assess the design, so it's a good thing that they are taking the time to design a space that fits this new budget. But let's be clear that if the money was there as originally planned, getting it right would have been a lot easier. Always is, I suppose.

BTW, what does this say about business conditions at the mountain when they are apparently 80% sold out on Clay Brook and having what appears to be (if liftlines are any indication) a strong year at the ticket windows, but they still can't come up with the originally budgeted amount for this structure? I know the credit markets are tight and all, but these guys weren't likely going to be taking out a kooky stated income, negative amortization loan with a two year re-set.

[shadyjay]

BTW, what does this say about business conditions at the mountain when they are apparently 80% sold out on Clay Brook and having what appears to be (if liftlines are any indication) a strong year at the ticket windows, but they still can't come up with the originally budgeted amount for this structure? I know the credit markets are tight and all, but these guys weren't likely going to be taking out a kooky stated income, negative amortization loan with a two year re-set.

You took the words right outta my mouth... seems like they 'made their money' this season, complete with the great weather we've had, the nationwide publicity, the newbies coming up from Kmart, etc etc. Not to mention the mountain has been 100% open since around the 10th of December (yes, I know ME didn't open until later in December), subtracting wind-hold days (and even during those, its been 100% open, just not 100% lift-accessible). I thought for sure we'd see the GSL and the VH Lift upgrades for the off-season, though I could be wrong.

[HowieT2]

I suspect that regardless of all the talk about wanting to get it right, the prime directive was $$,

Regardless of whether that's true or not, isn't that part of wanting to "get it right?" If you don't have the finances to do it right, why do a half-assed job? Be patient and wait until you've got the right plan, and the right budget.

It's not like this is the only capital project that is going to be delayed due to the economic/credit environment.
It seems to me though, that the GS lodge is not going to add any appreciable revenue by itself and therefore the only way to do it would be to build more housing along with the lodge.

[Yard Sale]

as I thought I understoodit the GS Lodge Plan included a dozen or so residential units. Bottom line though, it appears as though things are good with upside up the wazoo.

[random_ski_guy]

BTW, what does this say about business conditions at the mountain when they are apparently 80% sold out on Clay Brook and having what appears to be (if liftlines are any indication) a strong year at the ticket windows, but they still can't come up with the originally budgeted amount for this structure? I know the credit markets are tight and all, but these guys weren't likely going to be taking out a kooky stated income, negative amortization loan with a two year re-set.

Is the 80% figure sold accurate or did you just guess at that? I think Claybrook needs to be 98% sold before they can start the new lodge/next phase. In any real estate deal with a single building you haven't made any money until the last units are sold. Until then, you have only paid for all your initial hard costs, overhead and soft costs. All the profit is at the end of the rainbow; most likely in the very last 10-20% of the units. Ideally, they should have sold out 12 months ago in order to give Win the juice needed to feel good about the next phase. It’s too bad if it’s true that there still are units available as the ski season moves closer to an end.

[Hawk]

I also was excited about the prospect of the new GSL and VH lift. But it is tough constructing things right now. Something that you guys may not be aware of is the extreme escalation of labor and material costs this year. For example just this month alone copper wire has gone up 20%. Now I am sure these guys have their construction manager out there pricing up the construction options with alternates. What they get back is quotes that have expiration of 30 days because the subs can't hold the price due the increases. So what they do is increase the contingency on the budget which sends it spiraling upward. I am sure that they are finding it hard to hit the target budget when it keeps moving. Just my 2 cents.

[HowieT2]

I also was excited about the prospect of the new GSL and VH lift. But it is tough constructing things right now. Something that you guys may not be aware of is the extreme escalation of labor and material costs this year. For example just this month alone copper wire has gone up 20%. Now I am sure these guys have their construction manager out there pricing up the construction options with alternates. What they get back is quotes that have expiration of 30 days because the subs can't hold the price due the increases. So what they do is increase the contingency on the budget which sends it spiraling upward. I am sure that they are finding it hard to hit the target budget when it keeps moving. Just my 2 cents.

Good point. The federal reserve can say inflation is under control but we all know that not to be the case. My morning bagel went up to over a dollar because wheat prices are skyrocketing. I'd assume steel prices have gone up accordingly. It's not easy running a business when costs are rising quickly.

[MntMan4Bush]

Just a slight correction, we are more in a period of stagflation really. The price of oil and gold has skyrocketed causing our production of goods to increase lowering our production levels and at the same time it has lowered our ability to purchase these goods. Expect a tumultuous roller coaster ride in a few years of high inflation as a lingering effect from all these rate drops followed by the bottom dropping out once again. The never ending cycle continues. (Oddly enough though with the US dollar sinking it is actually making US goods more attractive because its cheaper to make here now and middle America will hopefully see a boost in the job market...hopefully)

In any case enough about economics. I think what is difficult is that we as consumers and customers are doing all we can. I.e. we're coming to the mountain, bringing friends, buying beers and trying to put money into the system. We've already seen people complain about the cost of season passes (whether you feel they are justified or not someone is still feeling the crunch) so it can be frustrating when someone says they don't have the money to improve. I think that because we all have a special connection to the mountain and Win in many ways we overlook that we are customers in this market and we give them a break. We look beyond the selfish mentality of "I want what I paid for and I want it now". Likely because we feel we get so much more out of being at the Bush that we wouldn't contemplate going anywhere else (for me there's some stubbornness mixed in as well).

So as a consumer and a loyal SB fan I understand that the market is tighter making lending harder. In the residential market even people with great credit are being denied because their house values have dropped and lenders are tightening their practices. However I'd like to know what the plans are for improving what we have then while we are without the new GSL. I think we all can agree that we'd like to see something done and have been patient.

(Jim Belushi Animal House cries sounding like Toga Toga Toga Toga)

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Seriously though even if they are just ideas at this time I'd like to know what is being thought about for change. Fill us in. Let's not be al secret squirrel here. If you've got a naked picture of Heidi Klum share it with the rest of us.

[aejkb]

Its too bad that the Gatehouse Lodge was not well executed. I am sure that it cost a pretty penny to construct less than 2 years ago. Now it will cost a lot more just to rectify the problems. i dont think the architect was a skier. The easy inexpensive answer is to keep Valley House open. Maybe even renovate it? Also, a Yurt like structure could be a good place for bag storage. On a somewhat related issue-- why isnt the Waffle Haus enlarged or better yet, duplicated near Super Bravo? I think that a lot of business is lost to the lines.

[HowieT2]

Its too bad that the Gatehouse Lodge was not well executed. I am sure that it cost a pretty penny to construct less than 2 years ago. Now it will cost a lot more just to rectify the problems. i dont think the architect was a skier. The easy inexpensive answer is to keep Valley House open. Maybe even renovate it? Also, a Yurt like structure could be a good place for bag storage. On a somewhat related issue-- why isnt the Waffle Haus enlarged or better yet, duplicated near Super Bravo? I think that a lot of business is lost to the lines.

I think it's hard to blame the design when we don't know what was supposed to go along with it in terms of the GS building. I think the GH would be fine if all the kids were eating in another lodge and there was an ample bag/locker/changing room there as well.

[ski_resort_observer]

Is the 80% figure sold accurate or did you just guess at that?

http://www.lincolnpeakvillage.com/st.../inventory.php

I disagree that we are currently in stagflation. Yes, oil is way up, gold is really not part of the inflation equation but housing prices are down. The CPI is at bay otherwise the fed would not have been lowering the rate before this latest round in the name of freeing up the bottleneck in credit.

Whether we are in a recession is debatable. Certainly some areas of the country are in recession and some sectors as well but nationally we are not at least going by the technical definition.... a recession is a decline in a country's gross domestic product (GDP), or negative real economic growth, for two or more successive quarters of a year. We haven't had one quarter with negetive growth as of yet. On the positive side, today it was reported that sales of homes increased 2.9% last month, the first positive growth in 6 months. The average price of a home continued to slide.

[Tin Woodsman]

Its too bad that the Gatehouse Lodge was not well executed. I am sure that it cost a pretty penny to construct less than 2 years ago. Now it will cost a lot more just to rectify the problems. i dont think the architect was a skier. The easy inexpensive answer is to keep Valley House open. Maybe even renovate it? Also, a Yurt like structure could be a good place for bag storage. On a somewhat related issue-- why isnt the Waffle Haus enlarged or better yet, duplicated near Super Bravo? I think that a lot of business is lost to the lines.

I think it's hard to blame the design when we don't know what was supposed to go along with it in terms of the GS building. I think the GH would be fine if all the kids were eating in another lodge and there was an ample bag/locker/changing room there as well.

You also don't know what the designers marching orders were. It's easy to say that there wasn't enough bag storage capacity for a crowd that was used to having their bags amongst the tables, but who told him to do that? The limited amount of usable space is, in my mind, created and exacerbated by the desire to have the building be a multi-purpose facility. Chairs instead of benches - that's not the architect's call. Huge amount of back of the house space vs public space, who knows who is driving that, but it seems likely that it could be related to wanting to host more events in the base village (with the associated food storage and food prep area requirements). I don't know either way, so I'll just leave it at that. Either way, be it the architect or his paymasters, it seems clear that the primary utility of that building was sacrificed at the altar of "multi-purpose".

[HowieT2]

Its too bad that the Gatehouse Lodge was not well executed. I am sure that it cost a pretty penny to construct less than 2 years ago. Now it will cost a lot more just to rectify the problems. i dont think the architect was a skier. The easy inexpensive answer is to keep Valley House open. Maybe even renovate it? Also, a Yurt like structure could be a good place for bag storage. On a somewhat related issue-- why isnt the Waffle Haus enlarged or better yet, duplicated near Super Bravo? I think that a lot of business is lost to the lines.

I think it's hard to blame the design when we don't know what was supposed to go along with it in terms of the GS building. I think the GH would be fine if all the kids were eating in another lodge and there was an ample bag/locker/changing room there as well.

You also don't know what the designers marching orders were. It's easy to say that there wasn't enough bag storage capacity for a crowd that was used to having their bags amongst the tables, but who told him to do that? The limited amount of usable space is, in my mind, created and exacerbated by the desire to have the building be a multi-purpose facility. Chairs instead of benches - that's not the architect's call. Huge amount of back of the house space vs public space, who knows who is driving that, but it seems likely that it could be related to wanting to host more events in the base village (with the associated food storage and food prep area requirements). I don't know either way, so I'll just leave it at that. Either way, be it the architect or his paymasters, it seems clear that the primary utility of that building was sacrificed at the altar of "multi-purpose".

Be that as it may, have you seen the weather forecast? (of course you have).

[Strat]

Not that it's entirely relevant but I believe Harwood, the local high school, is staging its prom in the GSL on May 3rd. There's a good chance I will be able to deliver first-hand reporting of the space's size cleared of furniture and of the general dynamics for that sort of event.

[Yard Sale]

Specific functionalities/limitations aside, I can't see putting up a building in that highly seasonal business environment that did not have the versatility to be at least some what multi purposed even at the cost of some of the primary function to enhance alternative revenue opportunity for the overall health of the resort. The stadiums of the 70's and 80's analogy doesn't work for me because the versatility of those facilities of that era was split between two very specific and limiting purposes: football and baseball. Stadiums today are still multi purposed but for a broader spectrum of uses not just sporting events. Though I get your point. I agree the boot room size and seating capacities etc. in the lodge are all important issues, but to my eye there is already a large % of assets dedicated specifically to the primary function of a ski resort and to place limitations as to the use of that building would be a mistake. The concessions made by the design limitations that impact the consumer to be flexible, I trust go toward the over all operating health and longevity of the operation. That apparent dedication to the health and longevity of SB is of more value to me as a consumer than the short term shortfalls causing consumer inconvenience. I am counting on this place to feed my ski addiction for decades. I take stock in the the track record that ownership has shown making improvements to the existing facility as a promise of sorts that they will continue to tweak and make improvements where possible. Further, I have faith that the paymasters will apply the appropriate leather to the backs of design and build teams when the operation is sufficiently capitalized and poised to proceed safely with expansion/improvement.

PS: If at all possible, I know it's frivolous and may contradict to some degree the statement above, but I'd still like to see some type propane fired fire pit in the square. I'm sure this way low on everyones priority list. Just thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

BTW: I'm hoping to make 1st, 2nd, 3rd chair or so on Bravo this Saturday and Sunday. If you've wanted to take a few runs with a human debris field (a Yard Sale that is), this could be your chance. See Blue Helmet W/ Green Clover.