Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38
  1. #1
    The Today show is a great thing for MRG. It's funny how everyone feels the need to take sides regarding the economic health of the Valley. it's not really a take sides issue. Economics in the Vally are not good. Yeah, businesses open and close for a variety of reasons, but somebody "having enough of the business" would usually sell if they're doing decent numbers, not just close. And a number of properties just closed. Sure new places open, but that doesn't mean they'll make money. I know one Win mentioned - Big picture - owner said to a salesman that they're "hemorrhaging money". And look at the night club/bar count. No Mad Mountain, no Tooth, no Gags, and still it's hard to find more than one crowded location on a Saturday night. last weekend should have been packed with party-goers everywhere, but it wasn't even close. Do you really want what the Phoenix delivers? Green Cup and Spotted Cow have been food locations for years. They're not additional choices. Also, those aren't 3 restaurants for sale, they're 3 properties. The businesses are gone. I applaud and admire Win for what he's taken on, but he's not here to save the Vally; he's here to make a profit at Sugarbush. If i spent that money I'd also be worried about Sugarbush first.


    Quote Originally Posted by jkvt
    Quote Originally Posted by Go Figure
    The Today Show is here because this was the only large resort not booked for the holiday week!
    The increase in skiers and their increased rudeness in the result of turning the Sugarbush Inn into a low rent Bus Depot. Notice how many buses
    are around on the weekend, filling the lodge and mountain with riff raff.Lower the ticket price to $63 and get more Quality day skiers.
    How about a segment on all of the Restaurants for sale, maybe shake a buyer out of the tree.
    When the destination wedding fad is over the final nail will be driven.
    Interesting...and where did you get your information about why the Today show choose Sugarbush over other resorts? The voices in your head telling you it is so?

    How do you figure that lowering ticket prices will increase the "quality" of people skiing? Although I would love to see prices lower in general your comment makes no sense.

    As for restaurants...it is a shame that there are three of them up for sale. Although one that closed the owners are now running another in The Valley and one closed because the owner had had enough of the business. While that is a shame at least two more opened up The Green Cup and the Spotted Cow, both offering great food. And a new deli has opened up in The Sugarbush Village. Along with that The Phoenix bar is now delivering. So while there are restaurants for sale it hardly tells the whole story of restaurants in The Valley.

    Your whole post wreaks of a giant troll and being a CIT (Curmudgeon In Training) I would know

    jkvt



  2. #2
    [quote="Treehugger"]The Today show is a great thing for MRG. It's funny how everyone feels the need to take sides regarding the economic health of the Valley. it's not really a take sides issue. Economics in the Vally are not good. Yeah, businesses open and close for a variety of reasons, but somebody "having enough of the business" would usually sell if they're doing decent numbers, not just close. And a number of properties just closed. Sure new places open, but that doesn't mean they'll make money. I know one Win mentioned - Big picture - owner said to a salesman that they're "hemorrhaging money". And look at the night club/bar count. No Mad Mountain, no Tooth, no Gags, and still it's hard to find more than one crowded location on a Saturday night. last weekend should have been packed with party-goers everywhere, but it wasn't even close. Do you really want what the Phoenix delivers? Green Cup and Spotted Cow have been food locations for years. They're not additional choices. Also, those aren't 3 restaurants for sale, they're 3 properties. The businesses are gone. I applaud and admire Win for what he's taken on, but he's not here to save the Vally; he's here to make a profit at Sugarbush. If i spent that money I'd also be worried about Sugarbush first.


    SB is the valley. If SB does well and draws more people to the valley, the area restaurants/bars/retailers will do better.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2


    SB is the valley. If SB does well and draws more people to the valley, the area restaurants/bars/retailers will do better.
    The Bush is no doubt the economic engine that drives the valley and IMHO with the opening of the new Lincoln Peak Village 14 months ago and the success of the Bush's first summer season in years the road back has started.

    When The Maples developement started a few years ago it was the first real estate developement in the resort area in many, many years. Now there are several developements, all pretty small scale, going on, including LBO's devlopement across the Access Rd from the Maples.

    The current real estate malaise is an obstacle for every resort but I think the Bush is doing pretty good in that regard and in a year or so that will improve and help the slow and steady economic developement of the valley.
    www.firstlightphotographics.com
    Sugarbusher since 1970
    Skiing is a dance, and the mountain always leads.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Treehugger
    The Today show is a great thing for MRG. It's funny how everyone feels the need to take sides regarding the economic health of the Valley. it's not really a take sides issue. Economics in the Vally are not good. Yeah, businesses open and close for a variety of reasons, but somebody "having enough of the business" would usually sell if they're doing decent numbers, not just close. And a number of properties just closed. Sure new places open, but that doesn't mean they'll make money. I know one Win mentioned - Big picture - owner said to a salesman that they're "hemorrhaging money". And look at the night club/bar count. No Mad Mountain, no Tooth, no Gags, and still it's hard to find more than one crowded location on a Saturday night. last weekend should have been packed with party-goers everywhere, but it wasn't even close. Do you really want what the Phoenix delivers? Green Cup and Spotted Cow have been food locations for years. They're not additional choices. Also, those aren't 3 restaurants for sale, they're 3 properties. The businesses are gone. I applaud and admire Win for what he's taken on, but he's not here to save the Vally; he's here to make a profit at Sugarbush. If i spent that money I'd also be worried about Sugarbush first.
    There is no doubt that there is a definite change to the Valley demographic, from those moving in to those coming up for ski vacations. I mentioned the Green Cup and Spotted Cow only because now Jason and Greg are offering dinners, where it was only breakfast/lunch before. Now will they make money??? That is the $25K question. One can hope. Personally I don't look at it as a taking sides kind of thing...The Taoist in me just sees it as an is, and wonders why and how to make the best of the direction it is taking and if at all possible help steer it towards a direction I would like (which may not be the direction the next person wants).

    As for bars/nightclubs, it does seem to be quieter out there. For myself I know that once the little one came along I wasn't going out till 1 anymore. I have heard good things about Slide Brook Tavern as a place to listen to music and hang, but can not speak first hand. I wonder if the lack of night life is a case of lack of places to go or lack or desire. It doesn't seem to be (but I have no hard evidence) as many young ski-bum types flocking to the Valley - and they were really the catalyst to the nightlife (at least in the 80s and 90s when I was one of them). I do know the population demographics of people moving into Valley towns are heavily skewed toward older retirees with a few families sprinkled in, not the going out till dawn and then skiing till dark crowd. They are also not as reliant on the mountain for their well being and when decisions are made about directions that towns should take often as not push back against moves to open up to more growth.

    I agree that Win and all up at SB have done a great job in revitalizing the mountain. I admire his steadfastness, even when he did not seem to have the support of the towns or neighbors. Keep up the good work.


    jkvt






    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking. - A. A. Milne

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Treehugger
    The Today show is a great thing for MRG. It's funny how everyone feels the need to take sides regarding the economic health of the Valley. it's not really a take sides issue. Economics in the Vally are not good. Yeah, businesses open and close for a variety of reasons, but somebody "having enough of the business" would usually sell if they're doing decent numbers, not just close. And a number of properties just closed. Sure new places open, but that doesn't mean they'll make money. I know one Win mentioned - Big picture - owner said to a salesman that they're "hemorrhaging money". And look at the night club/bar count. No Mad Mountain, no Tooth, no Gags, and still it's hard to find more than one crowded location on a Saturday night. last weekend should have been packed with party-goers everywhere, but it wasn't even close. Do you really want what the Phoenix delivers? Green Cup and Spotted Cow have been food locations for years. They're not additional choices. Also, those aren't 3 restaurants for sale, they're 3 properties. The businesses are gone. I applaud and admire Win for what he's taken on, but he's not here to save the Vally; he's here to make a profit at Sugarbush. If i spent that money I'd also be worried about Sugarbush first.


    Quote Originally Posted by jkvt
    Quote Originally Posted by Go Figure
    The Today Show is here because this was the only large resort not booked for the holiday week!
    The increase in skiers and their increased rudeness in the result of turning the Sugarbush Inn into a low rent Bus Depot. Notice how many buses
    are around on the weekend, filling the lodge and mountain with riff raff.Lower the ticket price to $63 and get more Quality day skiers.
    How about a segment on all of the Restaurants for sale, maybe shake a buyer out of the tree.
    When the destination wedding fad is over the final nail will be driven.
    Interesting...and where did you get your information about why the Today show choose Sugarbush over other resorts? The voices in your head telling you it is so?

    How do you figure that lowering ticket prices will increase the "quality" of people skiing? Although I would love to see prices lower in general your comment makes no sense.

    As for restaurants...it is a shame that there are three of them up for sale. Although one that closed the owners are now running another in The Valley and one closed because the owner had had enough of the business. While that is a shame at least two more opened up The Green Cup and the Spotted Cow, both offering great food. And a new deli has opened up in The Sugarbush Village. Along with that The Phoenix bar is now delivering. So while there are restaurants for sale it hardly tells the whole story of restaurants in The Valley.

    Your whole post wreaks of a giant troll and being a CIT (Curmudgeon In Training) I would know

    jkvt

    TREEHUGGER - News flash...if Sugarbush (not Win Smith or any other owners of the resort) didn't exist the valley would be NOTHING, just a cute town to drive through.

  6. #6
    [/quote]


    TREEHUGGER - News flash...if Sugarbush (not Win Smith or any other owners of the resort) didn't exist the valley would be NOTHING, just a cute town to drive through.[/quote]


    . . . . . And your point would beeee . . . ? Um . . . . .you don't like cute towns?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by heath1230
    Quote Originally Posted by Treehugger
    The Today show is a great thing for MRG. It's funny how everyone feels the need to take sides regarding the economic health of the Valley. it's not really a take sides issue. Economics in the Vally are not good. Yeah, businesses open and close for a variety of reasons, but somebody "having enough of the business" would usually sell if they're doing decent numbers, not just close. And a number of properties just closed. Sure new places open, but that doesn't mean they'll make money. I know one Win mentioned - Big picture - owner said to a salesman that they're "hemorrhaging money". And look at the night club/bar count. No Mad Mountain, no Tooth, no Gags, and still it's hard to find more than one crowded location on a Saturday night. last weekend should have been packed with party-goers everywhere, but it wasn't even close. Do you really want what the Phoenix delivers? Green Cup and Spotted Cow have been food locations for years. They're not additional choices. Also, those aren't 3 restaurants for sale, they're 3 properties. The businesses are gone. I applaud and admire Win for what he's taken on, but he's not here to save the Vally; he's here to make a profit at Sugarbush. If i spent that money I'd also be worried about Sugarbush first.


    Quote Originally Posted by jkvt
    Quote Originally Posted by Go Figure
    The Today Show is here because this was the only large resort not booked for the holiday week!
    The increase in skiers and their increased rudeness in the result of turning the Sugarbush Inn into a low rent Bus Depot. Notice how many buses
    are around on the weekend, filling the lodge and mountain with riff raff.Lower the ticket price to $63 and get more Quality day skiers.
    How about a segment on all of the Restaurants for sale, maybe shake a buyer out of the tree.
    When the destination wedding fad is over the final nail will be driven.
    Interesting...and where did you get your information about why the Today show choose Sugarbush over other resorts? The voices in your head telling you it is so?

    How do you figure that lowering ticket prices will increase the "quality" of people skiing? Although I would love to see prices lower in general your comment makes no sense.

    As for restaurants...it is a shame that there are three of them up for sale. Although one that closed the owners are now running another in The Valley and one closed because the owner had had enough of the business. While that is a shame at least two more opened up The Green Cup and the Spotted Cow, both offering great food. And a new deli has opened up in The Sugarbush Village. Along with that The Phoenix bar is now delivering. So while there are restaurants for sale it hardly tells the whole story of restaurants in The Valley.

    Your whole post wreaks of a giant troll and being a CIT (Curmudgeon In Training) I would know

    jkvt

    TREEHUGGER - News flash...if Sugarbush (not Win Smith or any other owners of the resort) didn't exist the valley would be NOTHING, just a cute town to drive through.

    Wow. Never thought of that. Just like KMart or Stratton or most other resorts...
    I'm not whining about Sugarbush. I'm whining about how this town dropped the ball as far as letting the ski town vibe go down the toilet.

  8. #8
    No question the bar/live music choices have shrunk in the last few years. Personally I take it as the natural change for the Bush and the valley to cater/market more to families. The legendary terrain of the Bush brings in the hardcore skiers.

    IMHO MMT was more to do with the change in ownership and the Washington County Sheriff Dept than the town.

    The Blue Tooth closed cause the Bush already had plenty on the plate and running the Blue Tooth was a hassle plus there was an opportunity to sell it to a state non-profit for the construction of much needed low income/employee. The status of that deal seems to be abit muddled at this time. Not with the Bush but with the town of Warren.

    Gallaghers and Big World basically traded places. For sure we don't have any places like the Rusty Nail up in Stowe or The Wobbly Barn at kmart but I think that's okay. As pointed out there are still several places for live music but there is no question that the live music/bar scene has mellowed here in the valley.
    www.firstlightphotographics.com
    Sugarbusher since 1970
    Skiing is a dance, and the mountain always leads.

  9. #9
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Behind That Tree
    Posts
    1,627
    Quote Originally Posted by ski_resort_observer
    No question the bar/live music choices have shrunk in the last few years. Personally I take it as the natural change for the Bush and the valley to cater/market more to families. The legendary terrain of the Bush brings in the hardcore skiers.

    IMHO MMT was more to do with the change in ownership and the Washington County Sheriff Dept than the town. The Blue Tooth closed cause the Bush already had plenty on the plate and running the Blue Tooth was a hassle plus there was an opportunity to sell it to a state non-profit for the construction of much needed low income/employee. The status of that deal seems to be abit muddled at this time. Not with the Bush but with the town of Warren.

    Gallaghers and Big World basically traded places. For sure we don't have any places like the Rusty Nail up in Stowe or The Wobbly Barn at kmart but I think that's okay. As pointed out there are still several places for live music but there is no question that the live music/bar scene has mellowed here in the valley.
    Reading this, I could only think back to Spinal Tap:

    Marty: On your last tour, the band was playing in 10,000 seat arenas, 12,000 arenas. On this tour, you're booking 1,000 areans, 1,500 seat venues. Do you think the band's popularity is waning?

    Ian: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. No, nothing like that. I simply think that their appeal is becoming more selective.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
    Quote Originally Posted by ski_resort_observer
    No question the bar/live music choices have shrunk in the last few years. Personally I take it as the natural change for the Bush and the valley to cater/market more to families. The legendary terrain of the Bush brings in the hardcore skiers.

    IMHO MMT was more to do with the change in ownership and the Washington County Sheriff Dept than the town. The Blue Tooth closed cause the Bush already had plenty on the plate and running the Blue Tooth was a hassle plus there was an opportunity to sell it to a state non-profit for the construction of much needed low income/employee. The status of that deal seems to be abit muddled at this time. Not with the Bush but with the town of Warren.

    Gallaghers and Big World basically traded places. For sure we don't have any places like the Rusty Nail up in Stowe or The Wobbly Barn at kmart but I think that's okay. As pointed out there are still several places for live music but there is no question that the live music/bar scene has mellowed here in the valley.
    Reading this, I could only think back to Spinal Tap:

    Marty: On your last tour, the band was playing in 10,000 seat arenas, 12,000 arenas. On this tour, you're booking 1,000 areans, 1,500 seat venues. Do you think the band's popularity is waning?

    Ian: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. No, nothing like that. I simply think that their appeal is becoming more selective.
    But this one goes to 11.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2
    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
    Quote Originally Posted by ski_resort_observer
    No question the bar/live music choices have shrunk in the last few years. Personally I take it as the natural change for the Bush and the valley to cater/market more to families. The legendary terrain of the Bush brings in the hardcore skiers.

    IMHO MMT was more to do with the change in ownership and the Washington County Sheriff Dept than the town. The Blue Tooth closed cause the Bush already had plenty on the plate and running the Blue Tooth was a hassle plus there was an opportunity to sell it to a state non-profit for the construction of much needed low income/employee. The status of that deal seems to be abit muddled at this time. Not with the Bush but with the town of Warren.

    Gallaghers and Big World basically traded places. For sure we don't have any places like the Rusty Nail up in Stowe or The Wobbly Barn at kmart but I think that's okay. As pointed out there are still several places for live music but there is no question that the live music/bar scene has mellowed here in the valley.
    Reading this, I could only think back to Spinal Tap:

    Marty: On your last tour, the band was playing in 10,000 seat arenas, 12,000 arenas. On this tour, you're booking 1,000 areans, 1,500 seat venues. Do you think the band's popularity is waning?

    Ian: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. No, nothing like that. I simply think that their appeal is becoming more selective.
    But this one goes to 11.

    OK, the Tavern closed because the last owner wouldn't step up and make things right between himself, the State Police nazi who was the Barracks Commander at the time, and the liquor board. But this also shows the how the town has no vision because they let the cops harass the public until every liquor license holder was affected. That was more than a year after State police told the town they wanted Tavern closed. The same commander tried the same tactics at the Williamstown Music Club, and within a month, the Williamstown Selectboard told the cops to go away! Williamstown doesn't even have a tourist industry to protect. Gags and egans didn't trade places. Gags closed and never returned. S'bush would not close the Tooth if it was packed like 10 years ago. I was out touring the town last saturday night, and nobody had much of a crowd. Total capacity of MMT, Gags, Tooth, and Hyde is around 1000. Those 4 places would all be full on a decent saturday. Now we have Smokehouse, Phoenix and Hyde. Half the capacity, and nobody full.
    So, yes, the appeal is becoming much more selective.

  12. #12
    [quote="ski_resort_observer"]The Blue Tooth closed cause the Bush already had plenty on the plate and running the Blue Tooth was a hassle plus there was an opportunity to sell it to a state non-profit for the construction of much needed low income/employee. The status of that deal seems to be abit muddled at this time. Not with the Bush but with the town of Warren.
    quote]

    One thing MRV doesn't need at all is low-income housing. Burglaries have already been on the rise the past few years and when that ghetto project is added things will get even worse. If your goal is to drag Warren right down the tubes then I guess low-income housing is a great idea. On the other hand if you want to keep life better up here (like its suppose to be) then it would be a good idea to keep the projects out of town.

  13. #13
    Someone please tell me he is kidding.
    Susan Klein, Director, MRV Chamber of Commerce

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Arlington, MA
    Posts
    265
    Quote Originally Posted by madhavok
    Quote Originally Posted by ski_resort_observer
    The Blue Tooth closed cause the Bush already had plenty on the plate and running the Blue Tooth was a hassle plus there was an opportunity to sell it to a state non-profit for the construction of much needed low income/employee. The status of that deal seems to be abit muddled at this time. Not with the Bush but with the town of Warren.
    One thing MRV doesn't need at all is low-income housing. Burglaries have already been on the rise the past few years and when that ghetto project is added things will get even worse. If your goal is to drag Warren right down the tubes then I guess low-income housing is a great idea. On the other hand if you want to keep life better up here (like its suppose to be) then it would be a good idea to keep the projects out of town.
    Clearly anyone that lives in low-income housing must be a lying scumbag thief . Just so we're clear low-income != ghetto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto). Do you really think that income is directly proportional to being a good citizen? There are plenty of people out there that have low paying jobs or have hit tough times that are good upstanding citizens.
    That statement makes you sound like such an elitist a**hole.

  15. #15
    Many of the people who work in the Valley can't afford to live here and this project should help them. Also, these are likely not the people who are, or will be, committing property crimes in the Valley. Is this type of crime really becoming more prevalent? I don't know the actual statistics, so I can't comment on it. Regardless, affordable housing at the Blue Tooth site is not going to make the Access Road a ghetto.

    As for the health of the Valley restaurant scene, everybody seems like an expert, but I wonder how many pontificators have actually worked in the industry or owned a business or understand just how complex it is. Little snapshots of the Den or the Warren House do not present a full or accurate picture.

    Between Flatbread, Egan's, the Hyde Away, Purple Moon/ Easy Street, Common Man, Chez Henri's, Michael's Good to Go, Mill Brook, the Smokehouse, China Fun, Timber's, Pitcher Inn, Paradise, the farmer's market, Jay's, Spotted Cow, all three ski area base lodges, etc, there is no denying the health and vitality of the Valley's food producers.

    The lack of loud late nightlife could be attributed to a demographic shift and to the fact that a large portion of people come here to ski and ride first and foremost. A few drinks, some good food with friends and early to bed is fairly common practice. You can't hit first chair and rip all day with a body full of hangover.

    If you really think that the Valley needs a new nightspot, open one.

    John

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Ski Gear | Snowboard Gear | Cycling Gear | Camping/Hiking Gear | Ski & Snowboard Racks | Gear Outlet | Men's Clothing | Women's Clothing | Kids' Clothing

Ski Vermont | Whiteface / Gore Message Boards