Snow Making???

[MntMan4Bush]

So I know this is a sore subject with some, but I have to ask. What's up with the snow making at Sugarbush. This weekend nothing was blowing on Saturday until about closing time when Stein's started throwing snow, but you can't tell me that making snow would have been a bad idea. Now despite the crowds and the fact that the Slidebrook Chair wasn't open to help disperse them to North (No one wants to jump on a bus) I had a great weekend. Heck I was skiing so how could I possibly have a bad day. The bumps on Twist kept me entertained all weekend long. But the Bush needs to step up its snow making. If you looked at K-Mart this weekend they would have had snow blowing all weekend long on more then just one trail at a time (let alone just one trail). Don't anyone give me guff about how we don't want to be like Killing-me-a-ton. No one wants to separate themselves more from there then me. I hate just about everything about that place, except for the fact that they turn the guns on when they're needed. I'm not saying we need to blast full bore all the time, but I think the snow making has been lacking this year (and the past couple). It's cold enough, let's get them ripping.

One man's humble opinion is all, but I heard a few others griping about it so figured I'd throw a post up and see what the deal was.

Thanks

[gone.skiing]

I do not think guns were on anywhere on LP yesterday (Monday). I was wondering the same thing: cold, dry weather, why not make snow on a few trails?

[canonizer]

I think this is a very sore subject on the mountain and I suspect it has quite a bit to do with utility prices these days. I had a conversation a few weeks ago with someone who used to be the director of operations at a VT ski resort and, from what he said, snow making was the biggest expense when he retired from the biz 15 years ago. He could not fathom what it would cost these days in an era of very inflated utilities.

Sugarbush is clearly running on a shoestring these days. While that's important (profits mean we'll have a mountain for more years, something some other VT areas can't say), skimping on services while charging $75 tickets or whatever they cost these days isn't going to win a lot of fan favorites.

[007]

Wonder if it is just the cost, or is something else preventing more snowmaking from happening right now?
A little blast on Rip Chord this Friday would be appreciated, although the wind is definitely a factor.

Anyone been to North lately to check out snowmaking there?
How's FIS holding up?

[WWF-VT]

If you looked at K-Mart this weekend they would have had snow blowing all weekend long on more then just one trail at a time (let alone just one trail). Don't anyone give me guff about how we don't want to be like Killing-me-a-ton. No one wants to separate themselves more from there then me. I hate just about everything about that place, except for the fact that they turn the guns on when they're needed.

Funny...there are a few threads on Killingtonzone moaning about the fact that they weren't making snow this weekend ! Sugarbush is close to 100% open vs 60+% at Killington. The guns were on Steins all day on Sunday, most of the groomers at Lincoln Peak were in great shape.

[jwt]

understand your take MMFB, but I could hear the guns raging from my house Sat night. Although a $72 ticket might seem steep, I thought Saturdays conditions were great with the 5 inches of snow Thurs/Fri, and I much prefer natural snow to MM, if and when possible. Just another reason I come here, natural as possible.

I also believe most people will agree, that skiing thru guns is no picnic, and if you can operate a bit more on the natural side, save some dough,( and energy) and still offer very decent skiing considering what happened the week before, we came out alright. If it were the week before Feb vacation, i think you see a different story - preparation for crowds - which were non-exsistent at North Sat.

I can't even imagine the tickets at any resort really pay for ops. . . . . .at least in full. . .gotta have RE development for long term stability, and now that seems to be a real question mark for the near future.

All that said, I can see why some would expect all the guns ablazin' as soon as the temps allow.
1982 ticket $22 gas $1, house $70K, auto $10K
2008 " $72 " $3 " $250K " $30K All seems about right - unless we do what we do with milk! Subsidize!

[MntMan4Bush]

LOL. You heard the "gun" raging Saturday night. Singular. Well as far as I could tell it was only going on Stein's (and yes I do understand it is more then one gun going on the line. Was just trying for a joke. This is specifically tailored to the person or people who were about to let me know that according to NSMAONUS - National Snow Making Association Of Northeastern United States - it is prudent to have a gun placed every 12.9 meters unless the slope of the hill is greater then 27 degree in which case every 12.75 and it would be impossible for only one gun to be running on Stein's especially since the system is known to pump out 3.79 barr of pressure and a single high pressure nozzle operating on......etc....... )

In all seriousness though I have always thought the Bush has been lacking in snow making. I personally ski more of the natural trails, i.e. Castlerock Chair, Twist, Spillsville......., but my wife is more a groomer skier and she was less then impressed. Now given the fact that she married me it leaves me to believe she doesn't have very high standards so I put stock in her assessment. MLK Jr. Weekend is a pretty big weekend so I would have figured that more guns would have been going. Riding up in the chairs I spoke with a umber of people who were wondering why they weren't blowing more. I always like to see the Bush doing well. While some people look at long lines and complain I honestly think we're spoiled and have it pretty good considering crowds. The holiday crowding is to be expected, so when I see long lines I know it means money is going into SB and I'm happy for the mountain. However if people don't get the best for top dollar they'll take it elsewhere. Just having the most trails open doesn't make it the best. They have to have ample quality snow.

I also don't particularly enjoy skiing through guns, but it's a necessary evil to get trails to optimal conditions. Plus they wouldn't be able to run guns on every trail so there would always be options for those who want to avoid the guns. I saw plenty of people skiing Stein's while they were on. Birch would have been a nice option to have roaring and maybe Ripcord. Then when those got a good coating move them on over to other trails. I don't run a mountain though so I'm just pointing out my concerns as a consumer/skier and was wondering what was going on and my statements in no way contain any educated observations that hold any merit in a conversation based on facts......

Lastly the lines at North were small on Saturday because Slidebrook was down. If it was open I can think of at least 10 people from my crew personally that would have been over there.(and no doubt many more who were at Lincoln) I hate taking the shuttle and would rather be blowing in the wind on the chair to get over. That was a bit of a disappointment and one of many times I've noticed the chair down this season (plentiful snow underfoot in the woods or not). But that's another thread........

[bumpcrasher]

Point well taken jwt! If its a matter of saving some $$ the mountain did not NEED to have the guns blazing this weekend. So far, we have been blessed with enough of the real stuff, that almost the entire mountain is open.

Plus, the mountain was in better shape than I expected. However, during the week, it looks like they made snow on only Birch Run, Sleeper, and Inverness. During the weekend, there was only snowmaking on Stein's and nothing at North. Judging by the crowds on those trails, it looked like a lot of people made there way to those trails because of the snowmaking. I usually stick on the natural trail as well, yet it is great to have an option of hitting something like Exterminator, Cliffs, or Ripcord when they get bumped up with under the guns. All with MMFB, I too thought they could have been making snow on more than one trail (Stein's) this weekend considering the good turn-out we had.

[Lostone]

I was trying to remember Saturday. Then I did. I went to North. That is why I don't remember what trails they were making snow on. I'm pretty sure Friday they were making snow on Birch and Sleeper. Was that not so on Saturday?

On Sunday morning, there was evidence of them having made snow for short times to do patching around areas. There were a few around the base and Downspout had been hit. (Likely badly needed.)

As for Stein's... Anyone try that snow? I'd heard from Win and others, that it was great snow. I wasn't able to try it until around 1:30, when I had my free time. Icy getting in, but after the first few bumps... What great snow! You could almost fly!

[boze]

Given the temps and the high efficiency nozzles I expected the guns to be a'blazing - if not during the day then definately at night. There were plenty of trails in need of a fresh coat, and many to choose from where wind would be less of a factor. Was at LP Sat and ME Sun & Mon. Never waited more than 60 seconds at ME chairs, but mtn definately skiied narrow given the roped off trails. Found a bit of untracked in Semi-tough woods on Monday, 4-5" of fluff on top of a firm crust.

So while we had some true New England conditions, a significant snowmaking effort would've really let the mtns shine for such a large crowd of potential repeats...IMHO.

Energy costs? Conservationism? Over-confidence in the forecasted 4-6" for each of Sat & Sun nights that never materialized? Who knows. But more snowmaking could've made a noticable difference this weekend, to a great many people.

[canonizer]

If it were any other weekend besides MLK I could understand holding off on expenses. But the big 3 are the christmas week, MLK, and presidents. If the goal is to impress crowds that wouldn't necessarily be at Sugarbush for 2-day weekend trips, I'd describe the weekend as a mild failure.

spend $ to make $...

[djd66]

I have to say - I skied 2 weeks ago (1/5) before the big melt down and I skied the weekend after (1/12) and this past weekend. I personally was impressed with how well the mtn. recovered. I thought they were making snow in all the right places and grooming did a great job to get the mtn back into shape. My only issue was Slidebrook being down this weekend. I don't know what the permits say, but I thought it was lame that they couldn't run the lift b/c there isn't enough snow under it. LP was very crowded, I would have headed over to North if the lift was open. Will it be open this weekend?

[gone.skiing]

Steins was great Sunday and Monday. Once you got past the entrance it was soft all the way down. Would have been nice to have that kind of snow on a few more trails. For average visitor mountain is skiing very hard. I could not recommend it to my friends who only take a trip or two per year.

[Tin Woodsman]

Couldn't agree more. I talked about this with a few friends who had noticed it as well. Gosh, even if you were concerned about people being annoyed by skiing through the snowmaking, then why not take a stab at Sunrise when it was pretty much closed the whole weekend, and looking pretty bare/ugly. Regardless, the enthusiastic crowds on Steins when they were burying it put the lie to any excuse centered on the notion that people get turned off by snowmaking on trails they are skiing.

[Bubba]

#1 Itwas MLK weekend, it's going to be busy, DUH!!!!!!!
#2 It was cold and windy. I wouldn't have wanted to be on the slidebrook chair in that weather.
#3 What's wrong with the bus?
#4 Most people that start the day skiing at LP prefer skiing at LP.
#5 Sunrise isn't really a "snowmaking" trail
#6 If you have that many people skiing on the groomers, it doesn't matter how much snow you have blown on them. It's going to ski off!
#7 Ever ride a chairlift that you have snow guns pointed at you all the way up?(remember ASC?)
#8 the lifties did a great job getting everybody through the lines on Saturday. Thank them!
If you don't like the lift lines, go to France, then come back and see what you think.


It's SNOWING NOW!
Everything is getting really creamy, soft and fun. Yes, even more fun than it was this past weekend. The woods are beginning to open up again.
I was at Okemo 1/7 & 8. For a Mt with so many snow guns and a reputation for "the best snow in the east", they were in REALLY tough shape. The Bush had WAY better snow.
They have been blowing on Jester, Organgrinder, Birch, Sleeper.They've done a fantastic job getting the Mt back into shape.
Be happy!
Relax and enjoy what we have.