Cell Phones and radios

**chuck** · 01-09-2008, 07:47 AM

I'm all for leaving my cell OFF and no walkie talkies for the kiddies. Unfortunately in the world we live in today with school shootings it is most imperative our children have communications. Terrorism, I live 30 mi. outside the city, was en route to lower Manhattan that day. My wife is a school teacher, inner city school, phones are imperative for the faculty. It is my hope we will never need them ever again. As I mentioned, I don't want to be disturbed when I'm ripping rumble, I'm busy, buzz off. I am truly saddened that my children (4,13,19,21) have had the traumatic events in there lives that i never grew up with, school shootings, terrorism and a war where there friends have left never to return. We come to Vermont/Sugarbush to escape all this, so I do agree that there are some folks out there, annoying parents and children alike who need to zip it and meet at the gate house lodge at 1230 for lunch, not have a 5 min conversation about it on the chairlift sitting next to me, it's rude. Phone etiquette people.

**ski_resort_observer** · 01-09-2008, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by chuck

I'm all for leaving my cell OFF and no walkie talkies for the kiddies. Unfortunately in the world we live in today with school shootings it is most imperative our children have communications. Terrorism, I live 30 mi. outside the city, was en route to lower Manhattan that day. My wife is a school teacher, inner city school, phones are imperative for the faculty. It is my hope we will never need them ever again. As I mentioned, I don't want to be disturbed when I'm ripping rumble, I'm busy, buzz off. I am truly saddened that my children (4,13,19,21) have had the traumatic events in there lives that i never grew up with, school shootings, terrorism and a war where there friends have left never to return. We come to Vermont/Sugarbush to escape all this, so I do agree that there are some folks out there, annoying parents and children alike who need to zip it and meet at the gate house lodge at 1230 for lunch, not have a 5 min conversation about it on the chairlift sitting next to me, it's rude. Phone etiquette people.

Unfortunately it happens in Vermont as well. About a year ago a kid went into a middle school up in Essex and killed a popular teacher. I have 3 kids but I refuse to allow that stuff to change the way our family operates. I see no logic as to how cell phones or walki-talkies would prevent that stuff from happening. However, as parents, you have to do what makes you comfortable, I think we all understand that.

**chuck** · 01-09-2008, 08:46 AM

unfortunately i do not see it as an issue of prevention, people will do the unexpected. How cellular technology is so important is that immediate conveyance of critical information to authorities paramedics, police or fire so that they can appropriately respond. For instance - i'm driving up rte 100 at 2am and there is a house on fire - and no mobile service. I would much rather have a trained, appropriately outfitted firefighter busting into that house looking for people, then me. So please, install the towers, antennas, and people for gods sake don't be annoying on your phones!! Have a face to face conversation with the person on the other end - it's much more rewarding.

**jwt** · 01-09-2008, 10:05 AM

Read it years ago in a ski rag - guy in gondola at Vail is chatting on cell . . . . finishes. . . ... . .guy sitting across from him says ' hey nice phone, can I see it?' Cell user ' Sure.' 'How much did this cost?' User '$600'

Guy then chucks phone out the window and hands the guy 6 $100 bills and says ' I came here to ski, not to listen to that.'

I use FRS radios. . .we got 10 people we ski with on a regular basis. . . . can't ski with them all, but when I find one or two wanting to get into the woods, I need to find them. Great for my kids too. I do like it when it is cold and they die though.

The quiet experience in the mountains ( sans snowguns) is an awesome sound.

**ski_resort_observer** · 01-09-2008, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Hawk

I have a business asociate that has a wind turbine and solar panels that lives entirely off the grid. I think that if more people in this country followed his lead we could decrease our dependency on the great liquid imported comodity and maybe prevent some future conflicts. I guess I am not realy bothered by the sight of these things. There are more important things to worry about.

As soon as our youngest grads from HS we will be buying another place and that's exactly what we are going to do. I don't know if we will be completely off the grid but I plan on powering the place by ourselves as much as we can....knowing it will probably cost more initially to achieve that. I'm already drawing up plans.

Did this for my place in Wyoming...you really get a great sense of accomplishment just making it thru the day, especially if it's -40F outside.

This is our personal choice, I don't think it serves any usefull purpose to judge others on their personal preferences. Diferent strokes for diferent folks I say.

I sense this thread is starting to head to a discussion not intended by the OP. I'm to blame as much as anyone....sorry.

Let's get back to Ads and lift tower signs.......

**Strat** · 01-10-2008, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by shadyjay

Alright .... the other story:

From what I gathered about the VZW/Unicel merger, some existing towers on Unicel will go to AT&T so that people can use the IPhone. Not all of them are changing hands, though.
VZW and Unicel work on two seperate networks, and changing a tower over to VZW would most likely require completely new equipment, and most likely new antennaes. I know up at the Bush there is Sprint coverage since I used to have full bars when I had Sprint, guessing because they were an ASC sponsor in the late 90s.

I'm for cell service in the Valley, but not in the essence of it to be expoited by parents/children while on the slopes. Every time I go riding, no matter where I am, the phone stays in the truck, and at the Bush - it gets turned off (otherwise battery would go dead).

Remember the days when we all went to school - there were no cell phones. Nowadays, parents demand kids have cell phones in school in case they need to get in touch with their kids. Well here's a thought ... do what my parents did, and call the school! They know where you should be.

There's always the time, however, when you're driving around the Valley and all of a sudden, go off the road into a ditch and need to call for assistance. Me having VZW, I'm s-o-l, unless a friendly Unicel motorist comes up.

There are rude people no matter what, not just on cell phones. How bout those that stop right in the middle of the trail? Or the motorists who drive around in a raging blizzard without headlights on. Or those that.... well........ you get the idea.

Jay

"That's my opinion..... What's Yours"

So, Jay, if the Verizon purchase of Unicel does go through completely, does that mean that the Unicel towers not converted for AT&T usage will be completely put out of commission, and all Unicel customers will have to convert to Verizon service? I hope not...

**HowieT2** · 01-10-2008, 05:30 PM

Rural Cellular (Unicel) utilizes both CDMA and GSM technology separately across its five regional markets. Verizon Wireless plans to deploy CDMA service in Rural Cellular's existing GSM markets and convert the GSM customers to CDMA service. Verizon Wireless, however, anticipates maintaining Rural Cellular's existing GSM networks to continue serving the roaming needs of other GSM carriers' customers.

**Strat** · 01-10-2008, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by HowieT2

Rural Cellular (Unicel) utilizes both CDMA and GSM technology separately across its five regional markets. Verizon Wireless plans to deploy CDMA service in Rural Cellular's existing GSM markets and convert the GSM customers to CDMA service. Verizon Wireless, however, anticipates maintaining Rural Cellular's existing GSM networks to continue serving the roaming needs of other GSM carriers' customers.

If they plan to deploy CDMA, they better do a darn good job to replace the existing Unicel GSM network, which has excellent coverage in many parts of the state.

**Go Figure** · 01-10-2008, 06:01 PM

Correct Me if I am wrong[and I know You will

].The problem with the sale is We only have 2 carriers,Verizon and Unicel.When the sale happens Verizon would be a monopoly of one. The Fed is requiring Verizon to sell the Vermont service ,parts of Maine and some other areas to the new Singular AT&T to fix this.

**shadyjay** · 01-10-2008, 07:33 PM

The whole issue is quite confusing to many, myself included, and I'm in the business. The purchase of Unicel by Verizon would definetely create a monopoly in Vermont in regards to cell service, which is why some towers will go to AT&T. It is my guess that this will occur in areas where Verizon and Unicel coverage overlap. We have recently activated many new towers in VT, including the Rt 7 corridor from Bennington up to near Rutland. We have also turned on the Middlesex/Moretown tower, which is the perfect example of a pine tree cell tower - I worked on it, yet have trouble picking it out of the pines when passing by. Our I-91 South towers are underway and will terminate "extended network" contracts with NH Unicel towers. We're also tackling Rt 9 between BBoro and Bennington - a fun 3-hour drive (each way) from Waterbury/Moretown every day. I'm assuming one day soon we'll be doing the Rt 2 and Rt 15 corridors at some point. In theory, a MRV loop could be done by heading over App Gap to avoid going through Granville Gulf, a black hole for any sort of wireless communication (FM radio, cell phone, satellite radio, etc).

Since its an FCC issue and monopoly concerns, I'm not holding my breath over how long this'll all take. No doubt, the next 6 mo to a year will get interesting in the telecommunications industry. Who would'a thought the AT&T name would be back in the US in its present form. They're looking at eating up the national landline business again. History repeats itself.

**HowieT2** · 01-10-2008, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by shadyjay

The whole issue is quite confusing to many, myself included, and I'm in the business. The purchase of Unicel by Verizon would definetely create a monopoly in Vermont in regards to cell service, which is why some towers will go to AT&T. It is my guess that this will occur in areas where Verizon and Unicel coverage overlap. We have recently activated many new towers in VT, including the Rt 7 corridor from Bennington up to near Rutland. We have also turned on the Middlesex/Moretown tower, which is the perfect example of a pine tree cell tower - I worked on it, yet have trouble picking it out of the pines when passing by. Our I-91 South towers are underway and will terminate "extended network" contracts with NH Unicel towers. We're also tackling Rt 9 between BBoro and Bennington - a fun 3-hour drive (each way) from Waterbury/Moretown every day. I'm assuming one day soon we'll be doing the Rt 2 and Rt 15 corridors at some point. In theory, a MRV loop could be done by heading over App Gap to avoid going through Granville Gulf, a black hole for any sort of wireless communication (FM radio, cell phone, satellite radio, etc).

Since its an FCC issue and monopoly concerns, I'm not holding my breath over how long this'll all take. No doubt, the next 6 mo to a year will get interesting in the telecommunications industry. Who would'a thought the AT&T name would be back in the US in its present form. They're looking at eating up the national landline business again. History repeats itself.

Who is "we"?
Could you explain why the carriers don't have equipment on all the same towers? Isn't the difficult part putting up the towers? I would think that once a tower is permitted and up, all the carriers would have their antennas on them, thereby sharing infrastructure costs.

**shadyjay** · 01-10-2008, 09:00 PM

"We" is my company, who is a subcontractor for Verizon. We've done towers from Brattleboro to Newport and all points in between. And I used to do this work for a company in CT as well, where I dealt with towers from the Jersey Shore to the Maine coast.

Yes, the difficult part is definetely getting the towers permitted, between the Act250, various local and state, and of course, adjoining land owners. Since new tower installations are limited due to visual impact, they cannot be over a certain height, usually 10-20' above average tree height. This limits most of our towers to just over 100'. Given the thickness of woods in VT, and the hilly terrain, having a tower at a max height of 100' may not work for every carrier. For instance, since VZW puts up the tower, they get the top spot. Most of these towers are capable of supporting 2-3 additional carriers, but, lets say, AT&T may not be satisfied with the height of 80' on a tower, since that may put the antennaes in the trees, thus limiting the range.

Exceptions are those towers which are granfathered in, such as radio towers, tv towers, and such. Those are not required to "blend in" (ie- be pine trees) and are more likely to have extensions put in which extend the pole, usually by 10-20'. Such a cell company may go lower on the tower, as the tower may be some 200-300' tall. An example is the towers on Mt Mansfield and Ascutney. I was performing the work on Mt Mansfield on one warm 50 deg summit day in October - quite the installation up there. Nice drive up, too.

At these towers, equipment is generally confined to a pre-fab shelter building, which has all necessary equipment for the antennaes to function. Hookup to local phone and electric service is required, though phone line hookup can be replaced by microwaves, in the cases of mtn top towers. There is nothing saying that the carriers can replace their equipment. This has been done in the past, and I used to be a part of it in NJ, as antennaes and equipment were replaced to upgrade equipment, expand coverage, etc.

Within the past year, I have worked at Mt Snow, Stratton, Magic, Bromley, Okemo, Killington (town), and Stowe (base and top), as VZW realizes that a lot of their customers partake in winter sports recreation, whether for day trips, weekends, or weeklong trips. I have tried to get the flow going for service at the 'Bush/MRV but to no avail yet. Slapping up some antennaes/equipment on the Lincoln Peak tower I wouldn't think would be too hard and is a great extra source of income for the mountain. Plus, I'd have no problem strapping my work equipment to my back, with a board under my feet, while heading up Heaven's Gate to enjoy some great weekday pow pow, say, in Feb or Mar. But until the "island" issue is addressed, we're out of luck, as cell companies prefer to have their sites all connected with each other. As I have stated though, they could hop the mtn at AppGap and get back into the Champlain Valley and make a connection there. Who knows what'll happen.

**HowieT2** · 01-10-2008, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by shadyjay

"We" is my company, who is a subcontractor for Verizon. We've done towers from Brattleboro to Newport and all points in between. And I used to do this work for a company in CT as well, where I dealt with towers from the Jersey Shore to the Maine coast.

Yes, the difficult part is definetely getting the towers permitted, between the Act250, various local and state, and of course, adjoining land owners. Since new tower installations are limited due to visual impact, they cannot be over a certain height, usually 10-20' above average tree height. This limits most of our towers to just over 100'. Given the thickness of woods in VT, and the hilly terrain, having a tower at a max height of 100' may not work for every carrier. For instance, since VZW puts up the tower, they get the top spot. Most of these towers are capable of supporting 2-3 additional carriers, but, lets say, AT&T may not be satisfied with the height of 80' on a tower, since that may put the antennaes in the trees, thus limiting the range.

Exceptions are those towers which are granfathered in, such as radio towers, tv towers, and such. Those are not required to "blend in" (ie- be pine trees) and are more likely to have extensions put in which extend the pole, usually by 10-20'. Such a cell company may go lower on the tower, as the tower may be some 200-300' tall. An example is the towers on Mt Mansfield and Ascutney. I was performing the work on Mt Mansfield on one warm 50 deg summit day in October - quite the installation up there. Nice drive up, too.

At these towers, equipment is generally confined to a pre-fab shelter building, which has all necessary equipment for the antennaes to function. Hookup to local phone and electric service is required, though phone line hookup can be replaced by microwaves, in the cases of mtn top towers. There is nothing saying that the carriers can replace their equipment. This has been done in the past, and I used to be a part of it in NJ, as antennaes and equipment were replaced to upgrade equipment, expand coverage, etc.

Within the past year, I have worked at Mt Snow, Stratton, Magic, Bromley, Okemo, Killington (town), and Stowe (base and top), as VZW realizes that a lot of their customers partake in winter sports recreation, whether for day trips, weekends, or weeklong trips. I have tried to get the flow going for service at the 'Bush/MRV but to no avail yet. Slapping up some antennaes/equipment on the Lincoln Peak tower I wouldn't think would be too hard and is a great extra source of income for the mountain. Plus, I'd have no problem strapping my work equipment to my back, with a board under my feet, while heading up Heaven's Gate to enjoy some great weekday pow pow, say, in Feb or Mar. But until the "island" issue is addressed, we're out of luck, as cell companies prefer to have their sites all connected with each other. As I have stated though, they could hop the mtn at AppGap and get back into the Champlain Valley and make a connection there. Who knows what'll happen.

Interesting, Thanks. I love those fake pine "I am not a cell tower" towers. Here in NY they dwarf the surrounding trees and look ridiculous.
Do you know if ATT is building out their "3G" network in VT or is that just ghostware?