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  1. #16
    Not always... the stereotypes can be true, but are not always correct. If you watch a group of so-called "reckless" young skiers or snowboarders, it's often apparent that though they may ride quickly and aggressively, they rarely crash or impact others, because even though their speed is due to some level of immaturity, it's also backed up by some level of confidence and skill. Occasionally you will see one or two stupid young fiends bombing straight down the mountain, headed for some pain (whether it will be their's or someone else's), but most of the time those who are going fast are not actually out of control. They have been doing their sport long enough that they are confident in their abilities to stop or correct their direction before they encounter a tree or a small child.

    Ithaca is (not) Vermont (but it is gorges)

  2. #17
    I don't think there's any good excuse for not wearing a helmet in this day and age. That being said, they don't necessarily make you a safer skier or rider. A helmet will help with a fall on hard pack, ice, or even rock, and with glancing blows from branches or other objects. But you won't be helped much from a high speed direct impact with an immoveable object (tree, lift tower, snow making equipment, etc.) But they are warm (or well vented if you prefer), can be water proof in marginal conditions, and keep your goggles from fogging when you put them up on your forehead! I'm not comfortable skiing without one anymore, even if I'm just taking it easy cruising with my wife.

  3. #18

    Uhhh, I don't think you meant that

    Quote Originally Posted by tomthumb
    That being said, they don't necessarily make you a safer skier or rider.
    .

    I know the above quote isn't what you meant, as it is flat out wrong.

    A proper helmet DOES make you a safer skier or rider. There is no question about it.

    Just as wearing a seatbelt in a car does not protect you from a direct hit by an asteroid, a helmet will not protect you from being impaled on a branch at mach 10, going off the side of a trail.

    A helmet makes you safer, maybe marginally, but safer none the less.

  4. #19
    Well, I've see many skiers and riders with helmets on that are unsafe They're helmet might be protecting thier own noggin, but when they plow into you, the helmet on thier head isn't going to help you in any way. So I guess what I was saying is a matter of symantics. The helmet protects you personally, but wearing it does not make you safer to everyone else on the hill. Sorry for the confusion. I don't makes me-self clear sometimes.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by tomthumb
    .......but when they plow into you, the helmet on thier head isn't going to help you in any way.
    ...when they plow into me or my kids...It is my second biggest fear about skiing. I'm generally rational on skis, but buzz my kids and I will catch you and let you know about it.

    My biggest fear is just starting to come to fruition as my kids are too good for their experience, cognitive caution level. I can see their confidence getting them into the "too fast, too close to the trees problem".

    Another good reason to ski in the woods with them. You never (or at least rarely) go too fast.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by castlerock

    Another good reason to ski in the woods with them. You never (or at least rarely) go too fast.
    Amen. That's where i'm taking my kids as soon as they're old enough. I feel much safer than than with the masses on trail.

  7. #22

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    Been skiing w/ my 10 yr old son in the trees for several seasons. He's a much better skier for it, and has learned quite a few 'tricks' at my side including some that involve getting out of dicey situations such as exhuming buried skis, dealing with downed trees, riverbeds and pine tree thickets...including the notion of being vigilant about avoiding many of those situations in the firstplace. And while he enjoys ripping it up on the trails, he generally meanders his way through the woods in search of fresh lines at very moderate speeds. Also knows to look & shout "coming out" when exiting the woods / re-joining the trail. Wish more tree skiers would share that safe & helpful habit.

    ** NOTE: PLS SEE CLARIFICATION POSTED A FEW ENTRIES LATER IN THIS THREAD **
    No mountain too steep
    No powder too deep

    (well, not exactly)

  8. #23
    Hawk's Avatar
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    Actually Boze, the trail skier has the right of way. The tree skier is proceeding at his/her own risk. The proper thing to do is stop short of the trail, look and then go. That is if you can't see the trail well enough. If I was on the trail and someone yelled "coming out" and then proceeded to cut me off or hit me, I would have strong words for that individual.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk
    If I was on the trail and someone yelled "coming out" and then proceeded to cut me off or hit me, I would have strong words for that individual.
    Ditto...

    Happens all the time on Northsatar, Lower RR and Lookin Good @ ME.
    "Quietly Heartbroken Tennis Player."

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk
    Actually Boze, the trail skier has the right of way. The tree skier is proceeding at his/her own risk. The proper thing to do is stop short of the trail, look and then go. That is if you can't see the trail well enough. If I was on the trail and someone yelled "coming out" and then proceeded to cut me off or hit me, I would have strong words for that individual.
    Sorry to be unclear, but that's not what I was [trying to] say. Not doubt trail skiers have right of way. And common sense & eyeballs still need to do their job.

    Irrespective of what the tree skier sees enroute to clear the woods, whether they travelling slow, from a stop or a bit less cautious, there's times when the view is imparied - -we're in the trees, remember?

    So in ADDITION TO taking the obvious look-see, I've found it helpful (and have appreciated it while I've been on the trail) to also give a good clear shout. Sometimes in snowy conditions, etc even fellow trail skiers can't readily judge distance and/or obstacles. A 'shout out' is not at all a replacement for 'the basics' - but it is an added safety habit.

    Hope that clarifies for any who may have taken that particular comment the wrong way.
    No mountain too steep
    No powder too deep

    (well, not exactly)

  11. #26
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    [quote="boze
    Hope that clarifies for any who may have taken that particular comment the wrong way.[/quote]

    It does...your scenario just stuck a chord because it just happened to me this past weekend. The individual looked at me like I was in his way....
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  12. #27

    My prayers go out to the family.

    Regardless of the circumstances, any loss of a loved one is tragic.
    been valley enthusiast since 1620

  13. #28

    reply

    I know I feel bad for his parents.

  14. #29

    Re: Uhhh, I don't think you meant that

    Quote Originally Posted by castlerock
    Quote Originally Posted by tomthumb
    That being said, they don't necessarily make you a safer skier or rider.
    .

    I know the above quote isn't what you meant, as it is flat out wrong.

    A proper helmet DOES make you a safer skier or rider. There is no question about it.

    Just as wearing a seatbelt in a car does not protect you from a direct hit by an asteroid, a helmet will not protect you from being impaled on a branch at mach 10, going off the side of a trail.

    A helmet makes you safer, maybe marginally, but safer none the less.
    NO WAY. A helmet does NOT make you a safer skier or rider. It might make it safer if you crash, But, Skiing or riding in control makes you safer, as well it makes those you are skiing/riding around safer. I have seen too many idiots out there that think that just because they are wearing a helmet that they can go faster than their ability would normally allow.

    That said I think they are great ideas, but it is a case of the user that makes the situation safer.


    JMHO
    jkvt
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking. - A. A. Milne

  15. #30

    Re: Uhhh, I don't think you meant that

    Quote Originally Posted by jkvt
    NO WAY. A helmet does NOT make you a safer skier or rider. It might make it safer if you crash, But, Skiing or riding in control makes you safer, as well it makes those you are skiing/riding around safer. I have seen too many idiots out there that think that just because they are wearing a helmet that they can go faster than their ability would normally allow.

    That said I think they are great ideas, but it is a case of the user that makes the situation safer.


    JMHO
    jkvt
    I'll continue the semantic argument one more time.

    For any given level of stupidity as a skier or rider (really stupid, marginally stupid, or mildly bright) a helmet will make you marginally safer.

    It won't make you smarter or more careful, but it will make you safer.

    This is the same argument that people used to use about seatbelts. "Wearing seatbelts doesn't make you a safer driver". It is hogwash. You are safer with a seatbelt, you are safer with a helmet.

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