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  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by win
    Are you having a bad day. Sugarboarder? I can explain the economics of this business to you if you like. If you want what I know you want, it does not come free or cheap. The All-Mountain 5 is a great deal and you know it! Less crowds and great conditions. We really should charge more for week days! If you want, I have a pair of ski for you and am happy to introduce you to Eric!

    Freedom of speech is great! Uninformed rantings are dangerous!

    Like it or not that is how I view things!
    I'm having a great day, why? Because I'm unhappy with such a big price increase? Has nothing to do with the day I'm having. I don't need a lesson in business economics to know that a 27% price increase in one year is a lot, no matter what you are selling, unless it is a commodity. I'm betting no other mountain in the US increased the price of one pass by that percentage this year - but I'm not going to get into checking that out and a big "prove it" scenario...just a hunch. I never said I want anything cheap, and I don't know where you got FREE from. The All Mtn. 5 WAS a great deal. I'm sure you understand, and don't need a lesson in, the "economics" of charging MORE for weekday skiing...we may pay less for that time, but at least we are there when others cannot be. I used to go around telling other people at snowboard races all over New England and at Nationals, and kayak races in the summer all over the Eastern US what a great place Sugarbush was...so there is value above the straight $$ in having a contented group of loyal local clientele - I know you understand that, just making a point. I was just joking about the skis of course, although I know you'd love to get rid of me!

    Freedom of speech is often called things like "uninformed rantings" by people who don't like what is being said, happens every day all over the world...especially if that person is viewed to have some sort of lower intellect because of the type of equipment attached to their feet.
    Altitude is Everything

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster
    Quote Originally Posted by win
    If you want, I have a pair of ski for you and am happy to introduce you to Eric!
    You should go ahead and take Win up on the offer, Sugarboarder!
    Fat chance...glad I could provide amusement for you.
    Altitude is Everything

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by win
    Are you having a bad day. Sugarboarder? I can explain the economics of this business to you if you like. If you want what I know you want, it does not come free or cheap. The All-Mountain 5 is a great deal and you know it! Less crowds and great conditions. We really should charge more for week days! If you want, I have a pair of ski for you and am happy to introduce you to Eric!

    Freedom of speech is great! Uninformed rantings are dangerous!

    Like it or not that is how I view things!
    OUCH!

    Sugarboarder,

    I totally sympathize with you! Still banging my head about ME closing 4/1!
    "Quietly Heartbroken Tennis Player."

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by freeheel_skier
    Quote Originally Posted by win
    Are you having a bad day. Sugarboarder? I can explain the economics of this business to you if you like. If you want what I know you want, it does not come free or cheap. The All-Mountain 5 is a great deal and you know it! Less crowds and great conditions. We really should charge more for week days! If you want, I have a pair of ski for you and am happy to introduce you to Eric!

    Freedom of speech is great! Uninformed rantings are dangerous!



    Like it or not that is how I view things!
    OUCH!

    Sugarboarder,

    I totally sympathize with you! Still banging my head about ME closing 4/1!
    As much as I used to love it here - we also have FREEDOM of MOVEMENT! Sometimes it's just time to go. Some of the best times and discoveries of my life have been when I get tired of a certain place and take to the road. No plans yet, but I'm thinking about it. I really do feel that freedom of speech isn't freedom of speech if people just always say nice things and espouse platitudes that don't ever rock the boat, and don't challenge the status quo. Not my style. I fail to see what is "dangerous" about it, but that is freedom of speech as well - it's a beautiful thing.
    Altitude is Everything

  5. #20
    Moderator
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    Nov 2005
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    1,627

    Re: 2007/2008 Pass Pricing

    Quote Originally Posted by TimKeogh
    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
    I can still get vouchers via one of the members of the CT Ski Council for what will likely be $42-44/day next year.

    Tin, I hope the members of the CT ski council do not sell tickets to non-members. This is a clear violation of council rules and I fear that this great program could disappear because it might get widely abused. I am not accusing anyone, but I would suggest that becoming a member is the way to go - if you do not buy a pass.

    I pay only $50 to join for my entire family. I currently live in Vermont but maintain my good standing with the club, so I do not think there are any geographic restrictions.

    I also like the skiing at Okemo, Stratton & <gasp>K-Town</gasp> once in a while. The club is great for that.
    I certainly hope they don't do that either.

    It might jeopardize my current membership privilege of getting these tickets.

  6. #21

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    warren
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    1,217
    There will still be a College Pass but we announce the price next fall when Students return. History shows that these passes do not sell until next fall. This is a very important group for us. However, this Saturday there is a rail jam in Burlington and there will be a one day early season Spring Price for college students for 07/08. You need to show up there and buy there.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by win
    There will still be a College Pass but we announce the price next fall when Students return. History shows that these passes do not sell until next fall. This is a very important group for us. However, this Saturday there is a rail jam in Burlington and there will be a one day early season Spring Price for college students for 07/08. You need to show up there and buy there.
    How are they an important group? They get season passes cheaper than dirt. I don't see them renting Claybrook or spending big bucks at the mountain on lessons, equipment rentals or food. Typically from my experience college students just rent a flophouse for the weekends with their friends. Ski for next to nothing during the day. Then go home and dine on pizza and massive amounts of beer.

    I can only surmise that Sugarbush is thinking they値l give away the skiing to college students for 4 years (or 5 or 6 depending upon the student) and when they graduate, find a job, and they値l come back to Sugarbush to spend their hard earned dollars. That痴 only my best guess but if I知 on the right track then I知 skeptic. Take someone who has been working for a few years, first you spend your money on the bills, the car loan the mortgage on the house and then you need the vacation time. Even if you are still planning a vacation after all that, not many us will be dropping $737 for 2 nights in a Claybrook suite.


    I think the real problem for getting new guests is that less family's go skiing, especially with regards to the middle class. Why? And this not Sugarbush specific. Its cost prohibited today for the middle class to take the whole family skiing. Less people who grow up skiing means the less people who when grown up take their families skiing. And the cycle continues.

  8. #23
    I壇 also like to mention a concept I致e often thought of regarding season passes for northeast ski areas in general. Could they make more money by lowering the price on season passes?

    I don稚 know the statistics such as how many guests buy season passes vs. lift tickets, or how many days the average guest skis so I won稚 even attempt to put any numbers down. But I think by lowering the price of a season pass to some price point, you could sell many times more season passes. And I doubt your average guest even with a season pass would actually do any more skiing.

  9. #24
    MadHavok - To answer your first question about the college pass I think that it seems logical. As you said college kids may not spend a lot on lodging, although I did spend some on beer, and other things, but getting them on the mountain a lot while relatively young might have a strong impact on where they ski when they're older. For instance I went to Norwich and worked at the Wunderbar and skied the Bush, another friend/housemate went to Colby Sawyer (almost the exact same college experience. I know.) and another went to VT Law School in Bethel. All skied the Bush when in college and now it's our favorite go to mountain and when I have kids this is where they'll learn. Maybe it has something to do with familiarity and having a place we grew up with, but SB also does have great terrain and snow so maybe that is also a factor. Who knows.

    As for your second thought on lowering the season pass I think it seems like a good idea, but then I look at what happened with ASC and their $300 pass. It may not have had anything to do with the pass itself, but it makes me wonder.

  10. #25
    I do have a question though for anyone that might know. On the All Mnt 7 pass it says "special resort savings". Anyone know what that means. Was it in effect this season as well or something new? Do I get a beer discount? 50 cents off a Long Trail is my suggestion and would go a long way. The Bush might loose some money though.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by MntMan4Bush
    I do have a question though for anyone that might know. On the All Mnt 7 pass it says "special resort savings". Anyone know what that means. Was it in effect this season as well or something new? Do I get a beer discount? 50 cents off a Long Trail is my suggestion and would go a long way. The Bush might loose some money though.
    I believe that the "special resort savings" is the coupon booklet that has discounts on lessons, rentals, half-price tuning, resort restaurants savings, etc. You get the coupon booklet at guest services desk.

    One advantage of the All Mnt 7 for families is that "Kids Ski & Ride Free All Season! Free equivalent (Mt. Ellen or Lincoln Peak) pass for one child 7-12 with purchase of parent's Adult 7 pass"

  12. #27
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by madhavok
    I can only surmise that Sugarbush is thinking they値l give away the skiing to college students for 4 years (or 5 or 6 depending upon the student) and when they graduate, find a job, and they値l come back to Sugarbush to spend their hard earned dollars. That痴 only my best guess but if I知 on the right track then I知 skeptic.
    You just answered your own question.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg
    Quote Originally Posted by madhavok
    I can only surmise that Sugarbush is thinking they値l give away the skiing to college students for 4 years (or 5 or 6 depending upon the student) and when they graduate, find a job, and they値l come back to Sugarbush to spend their hard earned dollars. That痴 only my best guess but if I知 on the right track then I知 skeptic.
    You just answered your own question.
    Well like I said, if my best guess is true, i think its a nice concept but I bet it fails to deliver the numbers.

    1. I doubt big bucks are being spent at Sugarbush by recent college grads.
    2. Anyone who buys a college pass at Sugarbush probably already know how awesome Sugarbush is.
    3. Anyone who buys a college pass already is already a skier who is going to ski anyway.

    Remember the HSQ issue and how snow quality was a critical issue for some? Well giving away season passes at $299 to college kids who ski every weekend isn't helping that.

    Besides if your really interested in a future customer base then you better start before college. Someone who grows up in a family that ski's sugarbush comes back as a grown up with his or her family and skis sugarbush. Only problem is every year it gets harder and harder for the working middle class families to afford skiing as an activity.

    But then again i'm not surprised, most ski resorts stopped focusing their attention on "the family" 10 or 15 years ago.

  14. #29
    Madhavok,

    I respectfully disagree that Sugarbush does not cater to families, and is getting unaffordable.

    When I was living in CT it was the lodging in the valley that was the major expense for a weekend trip.
    Even the Sugar Lodge was over $120 a nite...

    I have been bringing my kids since they were 3. At age 13 my son is now getting his 1st seasons pass ever, he wants to ski both weekend days. He scoffs at Bolton and won't go, even though all his friends do. We appreciate the terrain that much.
    He is looking forward to apply for the "Straight A" student discount when he hits high school.


    At $42 a ticket for ski council members, this is a very affordable for a full days activity. It is also something we all do together, and since my kids are teenagers, it is as they say, "priceless".

    For example, the Golf Course at Sugarbush is $100 for a weekend round and a seasons pass for even the dumpiest course around here are well over $1000 per season.

    When I consider all the labor, capital equipment, power, and insurance to run a ski area - I am actually surprised they can make a profit
    when I am only paying $42 for a weekend ticket.

    Oh - and the past 2 weekends I used a coupon from the local Entertainment book. Buy 1 get 1 free: $66 for 2 tickets. what a deal !

  15. #30
    Does Sugarbush offer any incentives to existing pass holders to renew passes for next season? It appears that given loyalty of Sugarbush pass holders retention of existing customers is not much of an issue. Is the mountain mostly focused on attracting new customers?

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