2007/2008 Pass Pricing

**madhavok** · 03-23-2007, 06:43 AM

Unfortunately skiing is becoming a sport exclusively for the enjoyment of the wealthy. Some of us are already getting close to being priced out of it and I don’t think there is anything wrong with the little guy complaining about price raise. It is far from a personal attack and quite frankly it is only natural. On the flip side, the little guy doesn’t own or operate a ski resort. Those that do need to make decisions based on the economics of running a ski resort. While we might not like the decisions, they have to do whatever it takes to stay profitable. Otherwise we wouldn’t have ski resorts.

**castlerock** · 03-23-2007, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by asland

all east pass that covered sunday river and killington was about $300.

Look, If we are going to compare prices, lets just get the facts. I had a hard time finding the exact prices for the 06-07 season at the now DEFUNCT ASC. But here it is

From this link: http://www.peaks.com/snownews.html?id=1214&nobar=1

"The flagship passes are the $365 Bronze Pass, valid seven days a week, with 14 black-out days spread across the season and the $619 Gold Pass with no black-out days."

So the FACT is that the All east pass was $619 (plus tax). The Bronze pass, is a bait and switch.

Now $619, has been proven to be financially unfeasible for the entity that offered it

I'm not arguing for higher pass prices.

I haven't seen the new Blazer info yet, but.......Next year no Blazers for me...(and it is a bummer as I won't be able to defend the Parent/Child bump title my son and I won this year)

**Nick Danger** · 03-23-2007, 06:57 AM

I've followed this thread with some amusement. While there are certainly many here with different economic concerns than my owm, I've always noted that skiing at SB for a family of four was a great bargain compared to many other mountains. Forgetting about ASC's experiment with cheap passes (look where it got them) the SB policy of free children passes with an adult pass has always made the total cost significantly less than many other mountans, they even sent me money back the first year of this policy. At Killington, a young adult pass is 1100, a Junior is 950. This is the price currently on their web site, I assume discounts are available. At Stowe, the early purchase price for a child or student is 375. A family pass for 2 adults and 2 children at stowe is 3110.
For me, the pass price, and any increases, are an very small part of the overall skiing cost for a season. As a condo owner with a family of four, here's a very rough, best guess, breakdown of what we spend for a season. It's probably more when you consider how often we stop and eat out on the way to and from SB but I won't include that.

Condo fees, taxes and utilities - 6500
15 weekends driving 400 miles at 40c per mile - 2400
Ski passes - 1900
Children and aduly programs - 2700
Skis, boots etc, average annual - 1400

So a season of skiing costs us about 15,000 dollars. Or, to put it another way, two trips to Disney

By any standard, that's alot of money. So what does a hundred dollar pass price increase mean? One less dinner out. I believe that for a majority of pass holders, the price increase is just background noise in the overall cost of skiing.

So I say to Win (if he's still listening) keep up the good work, there are plenty of us out here who appreciate what you're doing and don't mind the occasional modest increase.

**ski_resort_observer** · 03-23-2007, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by madhavok

Unfortunately skiing is becoming a sport exclusively for the enjoyment of the wealthy.

I completely disagree with your comment. Sure, you might have to become abit more flexible as to where and when you go and you have to do alittle work to find the deals but you don't have to pay $65+ day ticket prices if you don't want to. check this thread.

http://forums.alpinezone.com/9273-sk...t=skiing+cheap

**asland** · 03-23-2007, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

While there are certainly many here with different economic concerns than my owm,

So a season of skiing costs us about 15,000 dollars. Or, to put it another way, two trips to Disney

So what does a hundred dollar pass price increase mean? One less dinner out. I

I guess we are talking different economic concerns - $7500 for a trip to Disney? $100 dinners. Wow!

**asland** · 03-23-2007, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by castlerock

Originally Posted by asland

all east pass that covered sunday river and killington was about $300.

So the FACT is that the All east pass was $619 (plus tax). The Bronze pass, is a bait and switch.

My point was, and I did state this in the second part of the message, that there were viable alternatives.

The Bronze pass and the white face only non-holiday pass would be great for my needs. I travel on most of those holidays anyway.

BTW/ the all mountain five blocks out holidays as well.

asland

**gone.skiing** · 03-23-2007, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Lostone

As to the percentage of increase, it really isn't entirely valid. If I was making a sub for $!, and you liked it, that would be a great value. If I then changed the price to $2, that would be a 100% increase. Would it still be a good value to get the sub at $2? That is the question. If you are not getting the value of your price, and you can get a better value somewhere else, you should do so. If enough people decide the price is not worth the value of the dollars spent, the price will drop or the buisness will fold.

So if prices keep going up by 20% plus each year for next 5 years you would be happy to be part of that experiment? Blazers are up to $860 if I buy now, should I be looking to $1000 next year?

**MntMan4Bush** · 03-23-2007, 08:48 AM

$15,000 a year to ski!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am NEVER having kids. That's it. They're out of the picture. Now to convince wifey of my logic......

The bottom line is what? The only way to get a mountain to change it's pricing policy is to stop going there and\or for it to take a hit financially which could include decrease in concession sales, etc. because people feel they already spent to much. This could also have a more negative effect like closing it down. Regardless though when revenue decreases it's time to take a look. Does it mean time to raise prices? It could end up being like our current tax situation whereby it puts a stanglehold and actually decreases the revenue spent by the people. Don't worry I won't get into econimics here. Or decrease prices? Who knows what will happen. But again back to the bottom line. The price went up so what am I going to do? I know that I could fight "the man" and go somewhere else as a statement and not encourage price increases or like many of you I will suck it up and buy a season pass. Why because I love Sugarbush? Because I have a great deal on a place to stay for the season (about 2K for wifey and I combined for the season)? Because I like the wings at Timbers? Because I'm too damn lazy to do anything else? It's more likely that it's because where I never WANT to pay more than I was paying and it will be more painful to fork it over at the time, but by Mid-January next year when it's the best damn year of snow ever and I'm taking face shots like Clubber Lang in Rocky 3 I'll have completely forgotten about the extra $100 and it will all seem worth it then.

Besides as I've said before, something can only cost what the market will bear. I have a feeling many of you will end up buying the pass just like me.

**castlerock** · 03-23-2007, 09:05 AM

Damn, the Blazer programs have definitely taken a hit. Treeskier noted this earlier. I have just had a chance to look at the numbers and compare them to last year.

Forget the 20% adder. We are talking 34% adder here, for Mini Blazers!. 28% for Blazers. (forget the 1559 price, that has to be a typo in the original email)

Look I can accept increases. And I will be buying the pass, and to be frank, I was already considering no blazers, but this makes the decision much easier. I'll bet that this won't make a difference to the majority of Blazer parents, but maybe not......

Last year:
2 passes
1 mini
1 Blazer
1 Adv Blazer

Next year
2 Passes

**atkinson** · 03-23-2007, 09:43 AM

Hi everyone,

You can't get rid of me yet, although I am a little bummed that Treeskier and now Castlerock decided to take their concerns straight to the web, rather than contacting me directly. You guys know where I am and how to reach me very quickly. All you had to do was hit the reply button.

Our Seasonal Programs are still a great value, even with the increases. In apples to apples comparisons, we have been well below the cost of similar programs at other resorts and even with the increases, we are still low. And I would argue that in most cases our programs and coaches are much better. And that belief comes straight from the results and feedback we receive from kids and adults involved in the programs, including Treeskier and CR.

I appreciate everybody's concerns and thought long and hard before proposing these rates. I don't ever want to help make skiing and riding into sports that are only for people with large incomes. But if we want Sugarbush to be viable in the long term, we need to at least charge fair market value for our products and make sure we are being fiscally responsible.

We also offer very discounted programs for local schools, VASS, colleges and other similar groups to help keep skiing and riding accessible to more economic levels. And the younger kids ski and ride for free. We do understand and address this need.

Keep the dialogue coming, everyone.

John

p.s. The late Blazer price is a typo, it should be $1179. Sorry for that mistake. And the price increase is only ~15% for most of the programs, aside from the Bush Pilots, if you sign up now for next year. But let's not get into a math/ statistics game, mkay?

**gone.skiing** · 03-23-2007, 09:59 AM

John, nobody is disagreeing with the value. Those are reasons why I switched from ASC resorts to Bush. That is likely to be the reason why I will be back next year. I do worry about long term pricing outlook though. This year prices looked reasonable, next year they are still a good value, what about the year after? Is it safe to assume that this increase brings prices to the level you guys are happy with and next year's increase will not be as dramatic? I would hate to see my son get used to Blazers just to get priced out a year or 2 down the road.

I think this dialog started with passes and when your email came out people just rolled that into discussion.

Castlerock, which age category did you compete in? I let my son down in 6 and under category. He got one of the highest points number for the kids and I missed a couple...

**Volkl Skier** · 03-23-2007, 10:04 AM

Adult Full Price Season Pass Price

Arapahoe Basin: $249
Loveland: $319
Mt Baker: $641
Magic: $399
Jay Peak: $592
Sugarbush: $1499

Sounds fair to me....

**atkinson** · 03-23-2007, 10:09 AM

Thanks for the reply gone.skiing. Without a crystal ball I can't say exactly what will happen next year, but I think you accurately depict the situation, in that we will probably not have as large an increase as we have for 07-08.

John

**atkinson** · 03-23-2007, 10:18 AM

Apples to apples, Vocal Skier.

The Front range resorts all got into a price battle that doesn't reflect their actual costs. Besides, it 's not like those are real choices for East Coast skiers and riders. Who cares that A-Basin is cheap? It's still a long flight from here. Baker doesn't have much in the way of snowmaking costs, either.

If you want to compare, how much are passes at Stowe, Killington, etc? Oh yeah, I think we answered that one already.

John