Valley House: Where the traverse meets the chair

[sugarboarder]

An "S" gate with ropes and sticks and orange warning signs would be cheap and effective for now. You could place it on VHT BEFORE the corner and left fallaway - would totally slow people down coming down VHT. Vail had them at ALL big intersections when I was there - and added an on-post ski patroller there on the really busy days.

[MntMan4Bush]

I remember earlier this season when Spills just opened and you had to use Paradise Runout to get back to Deathspout and down to the lift. At the end of the runout where it intersected a patroller was putting up a rope line so you had to come to a complete stop almost and this Joey was in front of me and almost hit the rope. He then proceeded to start yelling of how he was almost killed (definite flair for the dramatic). The Patrol just looked at him and said "Ski in control". Couldn't agree more. It was a run out. Now that section does get icy, but if you slow down right before it you can easily be in control when you get to it. Perhaps the sign needs to be a bit further back and say "Slow Down - Ice & Intersection Ahead". There also needs to be one for the people on the lift because they don't always look before they come out.

[sugarboarder]

I remember earlier this season when Spills just opened and you had to use Paradise Runout to get back to Deathspout and down to the lift. At the end of the runout where it intersected a patroller was putting up a rope line so you had to come to a complete stop almost and this Joey was in front of me and almost hit the rope. He then proceeded to start yelling of how he was almost killed (definite flair for the dramatic). The Patrol just looked at him and said "Ski in control". Couldn't agree more. It was a run out. Now that section does get icy, but if you slow down right before it you can easily be in control when you get to it. Perhaps the sign needs to be a bit further back and say "Slow Down - Ice & Intersection Ahead". There also needs to be one for the people on the lift because they don't always look before they come out.

An "S" gate with ropes and sticks and orange warning signs would be cheap and effective for now. You could place it on VHT BEFORE the corner and left fallaway - would totally slow people down coming down VHT. Vail had them at ALL big intersections when I was there - and added an on-post ski patroller there on the really busy days.

OK - then we need the plastic material snow fencing on the "S" gate for Joey and his pals.

[Mike_451]

Yeah, got to have the plastic snowfence to keep joey from plowing it down.


How about temporarily grading flattening this area out with snowmaking, and grooming?

[beelze]

sometimes a rope alone is hard to pickup until you are just on it...

VHT is a pain at the end but not much can be done except maybe putting up a few warning signs before the
icy stretch and a 'keep moving' sign on the traverse side of the chair exit. Perhaps also larger/better signage
for <Steins> would keep people moving who are unfamilar with the mountain.

As to the gentleman who likes to make wide turns on the traverse (in theory to slow down others) - please don't
do that, it is dangerous. You are needlessly changing the expectations of those behind you on a narrow flat trail where the ability to maneuver is greatly reduced. Perhaps in an ideal world nobody will be so near your side or behind you for this to matter, but we all know ideal is not real world. Unless you are ski patrol please don't play
traffic cop.

[Lostone]

I'm not playing traffic cop. I'm giving them warning that they need to slow down. If they can't, they are not properly in control.

When you get to that corner, you might have to do anything, from traverse to either side to coming to a dead stop. Those behind shoudl be ready for that.

Today's problem was people lined up, not at the end of the trail, looking down Mall. We had people on the left thinking about (and discussing) Stein's, further on the left, looking down Mall, on the right, stopped, and people snowplowing thru the entrance to Snowball.

I need the people behind me to be going slow enough to react to what I have to react to, and my reactions.

I'll stick with my system. I'd rather they break early than find out they have to, when it is too late for them to react.

[sugarboarder]

I'm not playing traffic cop. I'm giving them warning that they need to slow down. If they can't, they are not properly in control.

When you get to that corner, you might have to do anything, from traverse to either side to coming to a dead stop. Those behind shoudl be ready for that.

Today's problem was people lined up, not at the end of the trail, looking down Mall. We had people on the left thinking about (and discussing) Stein's, further on the left, looking down Mall, on the right, stopped, and people snowplowing thru the entrance to Snowball.

I need the people behind me to be going slow enough to react to what I have to react to, and my reactions.

I'll stick with my system. I'd rather they break early than find out they have to, when it is too late for them to react.

Not a problem if you want to carve turns on VH traverse - but when I come up behind you to pass, and say "on your right/left", I would expect you to clear that side.

[Abe Froman]

I'm not playing traffic cop. I'm giving them warning that they need to slow down. If they can't, they are not properly in control.

When you get to that corner, you might have to do anything, from traverse to either side to coming to a dead stop. Those behind shoudl be ready for that.

Today's problem was people lined up, not at the end of the trail, looking down Mall. We had people on the left thinking about (and discussing) Stein's, further on the left, looking down Mall, on the right, stopped, and people snowplowing thru the entrance to Snowball.

I need the people behind me to be going slow enough to react to what I have to react to, and my reactions.

I'll stick with my system. I'd rather they break early than find out they have to, when it is too late for them to react.

You really can't ski, speak or think for others. I'll go on the assumption that you are not.

However, your behavior is like when a Trooper is driving 60mph on the interstate and all the cars pile up behind him/her. The Trooper is setting the pace. Basically telling everyone to slow down. In essence Lostone you are playing traffic cop. Try that on the interstate. Unless you have blue rollers on the roof of your car you may spark some road rage from a mental patient driver.

I don't care if someone is making wide turns, slow turns or no turns. I look out for myself in those situations. It's not even 30 seconds of pandemonium. Act accordingly until management can figure out how to control the traffic flow.

[Strat]

In Lostone's defense, the Trooper analogy is just not valid. The situations are completely different; unless there's some huge looming safety issue just out of sight on the road, a cop holding up traffic and a skier warning of imminent danger are just not analogous. A multi-person pileup at the top of the Valley House lift would be absolutely horrendous, and the more that can be done to prevent that, the better. It's not like by making people slow down, the ski experience is being harmed - no one is being hindered for more than a few seconds, and really if they had carried all that speed there's a good chance they'd end up being hindered a lot more due to a collision. It's not like they're going to be 10 minutes late for a meeting in Burlington; they can wait a few seconds to get to Snowball, or Stein's, or whatever.

[Abe Froman]

In Lostone's defense, the Trooper analogy is just not valid. The situations are completely different; unless there's some huge looming safety issue just out of sight on the road, a cop holding up traffic and a skier warning of imminent danger are just not analogous. A multi-person pileup at the top of the Valley House lift would be absolutely horrendous, and the more that can be done to prevent that, the better. It's not like by making people slow down, the ski experience is being harmed - no one is being hindered for more than a few seconds, and really if they had carried all that speed there's a good chance they'd end up being hindered a lot more due to a collision. It's not like they're going to be 10 minutes late for a meeting in Burlington; they can wait a few seconds to get to Snowball, or Stein's, or whatever.

The analogy is valid. Of course the situations are different. Everyone is entitled to their opnion. The trooper/traffic cop is controling the flow of traffic. Therefore trying to make everyone drive safely. The skier is doing the same thing whilst sliding on snow. I agree with you that a multi-person pile up at the top of VH isn't good. I have no problem if someone wants to take the initiative to slow others down around them. Once I move past the chaos....I carry on my merry way.

Strat, I disagree with the part about not playing traffic cop. That is all. I have no problem with it.

a cop holding up traffic and a skier warning of imminent danger are just not analogous

Ok. One is an athourity figure who leagaly can enforce the law. The other is someone who is being careful with his actions to make others slow down around them.

ps did I use my conjunction (whilst) properly....

[sugarboarder]

In Lostone's defense, the Trooper analogy is just not valid. The situations are completely different; unless there's some huge looming safety issue just out of sight on the road, a cop holding up traffic and a skier warning of imminent danger are just not analogous. A multi-person pileup at the top of the Valley House lift would be absolutely horrendous, and the more that can be done to prevent that, the better. It's not like by making people slow down, the ski experience is being harmed - no one is being hindered for more than a few seconds, and really if they had carried all that speed there's a good chance they'd end up being hindered a lot more due to a collision. It's not like they're going to be 10 minutes late for a meeting in Burlington; they can wait a few seconds to get to Snowball, or Stein's, or whatever.

It is just not one skier's place to be controlling the speed of another skier by any means, unless of course there is an accident being tended to. If I am crossing VHT on my board with enough speed to make it across easily, then it is up to me to then take precautions at the VH chair intersection WHEN I get there. Seeing as how I've been doing this for 20+ years with ZERO collisions I'd say it is working out quite well. Really, on VHT, you should look over your shoulder now and then to see if anyone is overtaking you. Trying to prevent them from doing so is just plain ASKING for another accident BEFORE you even get to the VH chair intersection. Checking behind you is the smart thing to do because it is a narrow traverse - like checking your rear view mirror while driving. And let's not blow this out of proportion here either - it's a dangerous spot yes, but it's not like they are carting bodies out of there on a daily basis.