Our Vermont Sandbox maybe changing

[Treeskier]

In alpine zone there is a linc to this artical/rumor http://www.firsttracksonline.com/ind...ticle&sid=1553 . It will be interesting to see how this re-adjusts the sand in our corner of the world. Maybe now we can become the late open area of the East? Things to ponder.

[Lostone]

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Love it when you get a bad link with no info as to what you were even supposed to be looking for.

However, if you look at the article, linked in SRO's thread, here you will see they're whispering about K_Mart.

[ski_it]

try this link: http://www.firsttracksonline.com/ind...ticle&sid=1553
title of article is "Rumors Fly Regarding Pending Sale of American Skiing Company Resorts"

[BushMogulMaster]

This one should be interesting to watch. I must admit, it wouldn't bother me to see ASC (American Skiing Company, not to be confused with the Aspen Skiing Company, also called ASC) to finally crumble away. Their fate was sealed by Les Otten's lack of intuitive/intelligent financial decisions (so he retired an average millionaire instead of a many many hundreds-of-millions millionaire). Now it's time for them to fall off the radar, and leave someone else to fix what they've ruined. I'd like to see K-mart (et. al.) under new ownership, as long as they don't steal any of our business!

[freeheel_skier]

This one should be interesting to watch. I must admit, it wouldn't bother me to see ASC (American Skiing Company, not to be confused with the Aspen Skiing Company, also called ASC) to finally crumble away. Their fate was sealed by Les Otten's lack of intuitive/intelligent financial decisions (so he retired an average millionaire instead of a many many hundreds-of-millions millionaire). Now it's time for them to fall off the radar, and leave someone else to fix what they've ruined. I'd like to see K-mart (et. al.) under new ownership, as long as they don't steal any of our business!

I would like to thank Les for the increased snow making and the SBX. I'd also like to thank him for selling the Bush

[BushMogulMaster]

This one should be interesting to watch. I must admit, it wouldn't bother me to see ASC (American Skiing Company, not to be confused with the Aspen Skiing Company, also called ASC) to finally crumble away. Their fate was sealed by Les Otten's lack of intuitive/intelligent financial decisions (so he retired an average millionaire instead of a many many hundreds-of-millions millionaire). Now it's time for them to fall off the radar, and leave someone else to fix what they've ruined. I'd like to see K-mart (et. al.) under new ownership, as long as they don't steal any of our business!

I would like to thank Les for the increased snow making and the SBX. I'd also like to thank him for selling the Bush

Good point! Maybe he's not so bad afterall!

[Tin Woodsman]

Make no mistake, this would be bad news for SB owners and good news for SB skiers. To a certain extent, K-Mart has been a sleeping giant over the last 10 years. They haven't invested a dime in their lodges or lifts, all of which are well beyond their "sell by" date. They haven't been able to complete or even start the Pico interconnect. And they haven't been able to move forward on their base village. These improvements would represent a major challenge to SB in its drive to attract skiers from the NY metro area. Of course, if there are more skiers at K, that means possibly fewer skiers at SB, which means more powder for me.

[random_ski_guy]

My post from last night on this subject from the other thread:

Thought #1

I can't help but guess that Intrawest/Fortis is kicking the tires on Stowe. I have no facts to back this up, just pure speculation. I wonder, are the sales at Stowe there to match the product that has been released thus far? Their product, while grand, its very pricey for the east coast second home ski market. I wonder, how long can AIG keep this expensive and risky real estate project & ski area on its books now that Hank Greenberg isn't around to protect it. I think AIG has done a good job with the mountain. I wouldn't be cheering for a change in ownership here. Stowe + Whistler = Something? Anything. Dunno.

Thought #2

I would love to see the ASC empire finally broken up. Anything is better than ASC. Too bad for Win though, a rejuvenated Killington or an interconnected Pico-Killington wouldn't be helpful for Sugarbush. It will still be the same over crowded Killington, but judging by the crowds, most don't care.

[random_ski_guy]

This one should be interesting to watch. I must admit, it wouldn't bother me to see ASC (American Skiing Company, not to be confused with the Aspen Skiing Company, also called ASC) to finally crumble away. Their fate was sealed by Les Otten's lack of intuitive/intelligent financial decisions (so he retired an average millionaire instead of a many many hundreds-of-millions millionaire). Now it's time for them to fall off the radar, and leave someone else to fix what they've ruined. I'd like to see K-mart (et. al.) under new ownership, as long as they don't steal any of our business!

I would like to thank Les for the increased snow making and the SBX. I'd also like to thank him for selling the Bush

Good point! Maybe he's not so bad afterall!

Yes indeed, Les Otten's over investment in Sugarbush has been a boon for SB skiers. Thank you Les!

[Tin Woodsman]

My post from last night on this subject from the other thread:

Thought #1

I can't help but guess that Intrawest/Fortis is kicking the tires on Stowe. I have no facts to back this up, just pure speculation. I wonder, are the sales at Stowe there to match the product that has been released thus far? Their product, while grand, its very pricey for the east coast second home ski market. I wonder, how long can AIG keep this expensive and risky real estate project & ski area on its books now that Hank Greenberg isn't around to protect it. I think AIG has done a good job with the mountain. I wouldn't be cheering for a change in ownership here. Stowe + Whistler = Something? Anything. Dunno.

I doubt if Intrawest is kickign the tires on AIG - if it's even for sale. They are already have a heavy exposure to EC skiing in the form of Stratton, Tremblant, Mountain Creek and Snowshoe. Besides, there isn't much in the way of real estate opportunities left at Stowe. As the marketing swag screams, this will be the last mountainside real estate opportunity ever at Stowe.

Thought #2

I would love to see the ASC empire finally broken up. Anything is better than ASC. Too bad for Win though, a rejuvenated Killington or an interconnected Pico-Killington wouldn't be helpful for Sugarbush. It will still be the same over crowded Killington, but judging by the crowds, most don't care.

K-Mart with a well-capitalized owner will be a formidable challenge. I can see it now - "The Beast is Back!" as K-mart tries to recapture its crown for early and late season skiing. Throw in the extra terrain from the interconnect and the likely increased usage of Pico as an entry point and you've got one huge offering to the South. Then with the new village that would certainly move forward, you'll have a shrinking pool of buyers for LP base real estate. SV bettermove quick with phase 2 of its real estate aspirations. It won't have the monopoly on Central VT slopeside accommodations for long.

[freeheel_skier]

Make no mistake, this would be bad news for SB owners and good news for SB skiers. To a certain extent, K-Mart has been a sleeping giant over the last 10 years. They haven't invested a dime in their lodges or lifts, all of which are well beyond their "sell by" date. They haven't been able to complete or even start the Pico interconnect. And they haven't been able to move forward on their base village. These improvements would represent a major challenge to SB in its drive to attract skiers from the NY metro area. Of course, if there are more skiers at K, that means possibly fewer skiers at SB, which means more powder for me.

I think you make a good point. However, SB is ahead of the base area development and marketing game right now. IF Kmart was sold tomorrow, I would think that it would take K 3-5yrs. to get their base village developed?

[MntMan4Bush]

Of course SB would also have to change their marketing strategy:

"Fewer New Yorkers than any other Ski area in Vermont"

I think that would be an attractive campaign

[HowieT2]

K-mart can plan/build/restore 'till the cows come home and it will never appeal to the same market as SB. The genie is out of the bottle in Rutland and there isn't anything they can do to make it like the MRV. There are many people who like what they have going there, probably more than enjoy the MRV. The more K-Mart builds, the less attractive it will be to the those of us who love the MRV.


BTW-any reason there aren't any billboards for SB in Rutland? Given that most people think SB is so far away, a sign pointing to route 100 north might attract some paying customers.

[noski]

BTW-any reason there aren't any billboards for SB in Rutland? Given that most people think SB is so far away, a sign pointing to route 100 north might attract some paying customers.

So, uh, Howie, how many billboards have you actually seen in Vermont?

[MntMan4Bush]

I think what Noski is trying to say is that the state of Vermont does not alow billboards. After the Billboard Beautification Act was found to be a sham Vermont threw out all billboards and only allows small markers to show areas of interest. They were the first and other states have also picked it up like Maine. Thank God they did. Can you imagine huge billboards up all over the place obscuring the country side? Just thinking of it makes me ill.