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  1. #16
    Apples and oranges, folks.

    Jay is privately owned and has to go through Act 250 for their glade work, but it is a fairly direct process. We're not talking a new hotel or golf course, just some thinning, which can be good for the flora and fauna, if done correctly. Plus, the fact that the mountain is owned by the resort, less stringent efforts are made to control unsanctioned cutting.

    Sugarbush, with the exception of some corners of Mount Ellen, is either GMNF or under special conditions, like Slide Brook. The levels of oversight and permitting are expotentially larger than at Jay or MRG, regardless of how benign our presence might be. And the USFS rangers do wander the woods looking for unsanctioned cutting, which is partly why some of our unofficial woods have fallen into greater disrepair over the last ten years. However, I'd like to see this tradition legitimized and organized in a greater way than it is now. We do have legal volunteer work crews in Slide Brook every summer and fall already though. Thank you Outback Guides and supporters!



    Egan and I (and a number of other folks) are working on expanding and improving our glade/ off-piste skiing possibilities, but to say that it's complicated is an understatement. The newer lines at Mount Ellen are hopefully just a start, but be aware that these happened on Sugarbush-owned land for a reason.

    With regards to the woods policy of not open/ not closed, this is exactly the same as MRG's policy. Personal responsibility is a good thing.

    As for closeout lines, I don't ski those much. Which ones are you talking about? Care to share?

    John


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by atkinson
    Sugarbush, with the exception of some corners of Mount Ellen, is either GMNF or under special conditions, like Slide Brook. The levels of oversight and permitting are expotentially larger than at Jay or MRG, regardless of how benign our presence might be. And the USFS rangers do wander the woods looking for unsanctioned cutting, which is partly why some of our unofficial woods have fallen into greater disrepair over the last ten years. However, I'd like to see this tradition legitimized and organized in a greater way than it is now. We do have legal volunteer work crews in Slide Brook every summer and fall already though. Thank you Outback Guides and supporters!
    Too bad I never saw/heard anything about this, as I would have been there with bells on. Any chance it will be more publicized here or on the official site going forward?

    With regards to the woods policy of not open/ not closed, this is exactly the same as MRG's policy. Personal responsibility is a good thing.
    Yes it is a good thing. The primary difference I was pointing to was the fact that the new terrain at ME is now on the map, whereas work done at MRG stays undercover. My guess is that this tact was taken as a one-time move to help increase skier visits at Ellen with Hardy trying to breath life into Club North at the time. Hopefully, this will be the last on-map glade created by you folks.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2
    Why is the tree skiing at Jay peak better than SB?
    I understand that there are different approaches taken by Jay and MRG. There is an article in the current issue of Skiing magazine about the MRG approach. How is Jay different?

    IMHO- tree skiing is the best thing to happen to the sport. But there can be too much of a good thing. Opening up too much terrain will inevitably lead to it's degradation. Leaving some blow downs allows for some renewal.
    Normally , I don't think it is , just more open but I do love Andre's! Last season they just had that Jay cloud thing going when no one else could buy a flake. I would like to get my hands on the person that chainsawed a white birch in Timbuktu and left 4' of it hanging out at hip level. Just looked like snow to me but I hit hard and a hematoma on the femur ended my season with a couple weeks left in April. Could have been worse. Nothing broken. But I got spun around heading backwards screaming What the..!! ; }

  4. #19
    WARNING... LARGE PICTURE. Sorry to those of you using dialup.

    Quote Originally Posted by atkinson
    Sugarbush, with the exception of some corners of Mount Ellen, is either GMNF or under special conditions, like Slide Brook.
    Not saying you're wrong, John (you probably know much more about it than the rest of us)... but the map below shows that most of Mount Ellen is Sugarbush property. Correct me if I'm wrong??? Or maybe you could fill us in if there are some special conditions???




  5. #20
    Nice image! Anything else of that nature to share/possibly implement in our new website project?
    Ithaca is (not) Vermont (but it is gorges)

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Strat
    Nice image! Anything else of that nature to share/possibly implement in our new website project?
    A few things here and there. I'm not going to post them here at the moment, but they'll definitely go on the new website!

  7. #22

    Join Date
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    John's answer is a good one, and I do not have much to add to it. While most of Mt. Ellen is ours, we are still subject to Act 250 and other regulations. Our goal is to do more as fast as we can, but it is complicated and takes some time to do various studies inorder to get approval. Unfortunately, it is also not really something to discuss on a public blog.

  8. #23
    Sweet Image Maestro! We all owe you a drink!

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by win
    John's answer is a good one, and I do not have much to add to it. While most of Mt. Ellen is ours, we are still subject to Act 250 and other regulations. Our goal is to do more as fast as we can, but it is complicated and takes some time to do various studies inorder to get approval. Unfortunately, it is also not really something to discuss on a public blog.
    Understandable. Thanks for the info. Act 250 definitely takes a lot of work to deal with, no matter what you're trying to do.

  10. #25

    Thanks Win

    Quote Originally Posted by win
    John's answer is a good one, and I do not have much to add to it. While most of Mt. Ellen is ours, we are still subject to Act 250 and other regulations. Our goal is to do more as fast as we can, but it is complicated and takes some time to do various studies inorder to get approval. Unfortunately, it is also not really something to discuss on a public blog.
    Which is precisely why I have nothing to say (here) on a subject most dear to me. But Win, could we please all have a discussion or two in person? There is a lot of downage out there which could have been addressed ala MRG (where I have done volly clean up time in light of my "one ridge and it's all ours" philosophy) That's all I'll say.

  11. #26
    Just p/u the a copy of the Distorter. Act 250 hearings are mentioned all over the place. Reading some of the articles might shed some insight on how complicated some things can be......politics alwasy play a roll too.
    "Quietly Heartbroken Tennis Player."

  12. #27
    Jay-Make as many turns as you want without Hitting a tree, Hooking your boots and ski under a tree, having a branch stick you in the eye.

    The Bush-Make 2 turns and have a branch poke your eye out so you hook your ski and fall head first into a tree.

    With that being said. I look for every opening I can find.

  13. #28

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Northfield, Vt.
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    57
    Quote Originally Posted by walks
    Jay-Make as many turns as you want without Hitting a tree, Hooking your boots and ski under a tree, having a branch stick you in the eye.

    The Bush-Make 2 turns and have a branch poke your eye out so you hook your ski and fall head first into a tree.

    With that being said. I look for every opening I can find.
    What? C'Mon will ya?

    P.S. Okay back to lurkerville
    "If I had a magic wand and I could change skiing. I would make it exactly the way it was before snowboarding came along." G.P.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Froman
    Quote Originally Posted by walks
    Jay-Make as many turns as you want without Hitting a tree, Hooking your boots and ski under a tree, having a branch stick you in the eye.

    The Bush-Make 2 turns and have a branch poke your eye out so you hook your ski and fall head first into a tree.

    With that being said. I look for every opening I can find.
    What? C'Mon will ya?

    P.S. Okay back to lurkerville
    Walks has a point. The "between trail" woods at Sugarbush, are full of deadfall and a lot of low/broken off branches that are ready to impale you. That is the stuff that gets cleaned up at Jay. The deadfall is what I fear most. I have a recurring nightmare of having one foot sheared off while cruising in the woods between Jester and Grinder.

    As for Walks, he speaks from experience, as he does look for every opening he can find. He is always in the woods, as soon as there is enough snow. (which there definitely isn't yet, except probably at Jay, or at least that is what he will tell you!)

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by castlerock
    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Froman
    Quote Originally Posted by walks
    Jay-Make as many turns as you want without Hitting a tree, Hooking your boots and ski under a tree, having a branch stick you in the eye.

    The Bush-Make 2 turns and have a branch poke your eye out so you hook your ski and fall head first into a tree.

    With that being said. I look for every opening I can find.
    What? C'Mon will ya?

    P.S. Okay back to lurkerville
    Walks has a point. The "between trail" woods at Sugarbush, are full of deadfall and a lot of low/broken off branches that are ready to impale you. That is the stuff that gets cleaned up at Jay. The deadfall is what I fear most. I have a recurring nightmare of having one foot sheared off while cruising in the woods between Jester and Grinder.

    As for Walks, he speaks from experience, as he does look for every opening he can find. He is always in the woods, as soon as there is enough snow. (which there definitely isn't yet, except probably at Jay, or at least that is what he will tell you!)
    To further your points, while mostly a problem out west but can happen for us if we go thru a long dry spell is the issue of reducing deadfall and other tree debris which results in a reduction of forest fire danger. Also, while it's unnatural removing this stuff it does greatly improve the forest floor ecosystem in several ways which I believe all parties involved strive for.
    www.firstlightphotographics.com
    Sugarbusher since 1970
    Skiing is a dance, and the mountain always leads.

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