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  1. #16
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Behind That Tree
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    1,627
    Quote Originally Posted by win
    On the 31st, our skier visits we 90% of our busiest day since we owned the mountain. While they may have been more glitches, I personally thought we handled that volume very well. The mountain with only 68 of 111 trails opened did not seem overly crowded and the lift lines flowed well. Timbers turned over 4 times and while it was very busy in the Gate House people found seats and the food lines flowed OK. This time I do not agree with Tin.
    Fair enough. I'll respectfully disagree, as the experiences of my wife and others in my circle were decidedly different. Signage would be a help, and I think more staffing at key times as well (there and in Glen House). The $10-15/hr you spend (including benefits) on an extra FTE generates wonderful returns in terms of the customer experience.

  2. #17

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    South of where you are
    Posts
    13
    I had a chance to make my 1st visit to Timbers/CR pub this past weekend and first and foremost want to commend on how wonderful LP looks and well it skied on Sunday.
    My first comment in terms of Timbers is to resonate the sentiment of others that it is probably to early to judge the operations/service at Timbers. As a long time friend of a person who own and operates 2 restuarants in Beantown there is the expectations of experiencing the "growing pains" in the course of the 1st couple of months.
    Albeit I was dispaponied in the service and staffing levels at both CR Pub & Timbers, I would also like to agree that the staff kept their chins up and were VERY pleasant.
    Here is one casual oberservance I witnessed not only Sunday but as a 8yr vet of SB and loyal apres customer of the old Wonderbar...the staff needs to learn how to multi task. It seems that the wait service can only handle one customer/order/table at a time. I saw a lot of "standing around" the cash register at Timbers on Sunday. I think one kid didn't move for five minutes and the 2nd bartender "disappeared" during the critical rush as disgruntled CR Pub customers came over to Timbers.
    "Yes" boot wearing in Timbers WILL be a problem...a friend of mine took a digger!
    Personally I would vote for "no boots' in Timbers but if you need to keep it available for CR Pub overflow then so be it.
    My last comment/recommendation is this...NO family camping out in the CR Pub! Someone brought cooler in and camped out there all day long.
    Overall...very pleased. (See I am not so Angry after all!)

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by win
    On the 31st, our skier visits we 90% of our busiest day since we owned the mountain. While they may have been more glitches, I personally thought we handled that volume very well. The mountain with only 68 of 111 trails opened did not seem overly crowded and the lift lines flowed well. Timbers turned over 4 times and while it was very busy in the Gate House people found seats and the food lines flowed OK. This time I do not agree with Tin.
    Was that @ full seating capacity? I know the evening I went to dinner there were many empty tables. Only three reservations @ 8pm in the book. I didn't see any tables turn when I was there.

    I am not going to comment on the most of the specifics raised other than to say that whenever something opens hard like everything did the past two weeks, there are going to be issues that need to be improved, and I think we are aware of most of them but do appreciate everyone's comment. Overall, I got very good comments. When we opened the Pitcher Inn 10 years ago, we had many of the same comments for the first couple of weeks until everything settled in.

    Last week was probably very diffulct to be open for your 3rd week in business. Hopefully things shape up
    "Quietly Heartbroken Tennis Player."

  4. #19
    I worked/helped at the Gatehouse Season Pass/Ticket counter all morning on the 31st. I normally work in a nice quiet office away from the base.

    I was totally blown away by the crowds. The staff where I was had at times, big lines, and most guests were pretty pleasant and understanding. The problem for us was that people came for alot of sticky problems, bad timing and non SP/ticket things. If you come on such a busy day you have to realize that it might take alittle longer than on a more normal day, crowdwise.

    In additon to all this the phone was ringing constantly and not once did they let it go to voice mail. They answered every call and cheerfully took care of whatever issue the caller had. They took ownership of every problen a guest had when they could have easily said you need to go to ....

    One guy said he found these ski poles and before I could direct him to the side door so I could get them safely he basically threw them across the counter and scurried away. The staff IMHO performed admirably. Several times I checked the line and nobody had to wait more than 10 minutes at the longest.

    When a co-worker came to replace me I left knowing that everyone did a great job and that it was such a beautiful day for guests to be at the Bush.
    www.firstlightphotographics.com
    Sugarbusher since 1970
    Skiing is a dance, and the mountain always leads.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba
    As for Chef Carosi:
    I won't even get into my experience at Timbers except that food was VERY slow coming out of the kitchen on a quiet night and our server, and I now assume all of them, need to be trained in tableside wine service.
    When I heard Chef Carosi talk of "putting the Pitcher Inn to shame" I was dissapointed. When I heard that he went to Chez Henri and introduced himself as the guy that will put them out of buisiness I was disgusted.
    Maybe Mr. Carosi should have dinner at the Pitcher Inn or Chez Henri or one of the other fine establishments we have in the valley to see what excellent food and service is all about before he starts talking trash.
    Great, a trash talking chef. Henri is an icon here - Carosi is nobody. Think I'll stop at Henri's for a drink and snack tomorrow.
    Altitude is Everything

  6. #21

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    warren
    Posts
    1,217
    Clarifications:

    The 4x turn was one lunch not dinner. Dinners we have been doing between 100 and 150.

    Tin's comment I do not understand and am going to look into further. When I was there there was more than one, so he might have hit a time when the others were pulled elsewhere. If it was one, Tin is correct. Unfortunately, people do call in sick sometimes on the worst days, but I do not think this was the case on the 31st.

    I do not believe what is attributed to our chef, but if it is true it will be corrected. He is an excellent chef and has worked around the clock to get all 3 food operations up and running in an incredibly short period of time. Great chefs like great artists have passion and that may be misunderstood at times by some.

    Yes, with all new staff training is ongoing. Remember, Timbers was turned over from the contractor to the staff the night before it opened.

    The floor is an issue we are aware of and will be addressed. We probably need a temporary fix this winter and then a different floor when we can close for a few days in the Spring.

    Thanks for the comments. I have received many great reviews as well and all the issues raised are correctible and will be.

  7. #22
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Behind That Tree
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    Quote Originally Posted by win
    Tin's comment I do not understand and am going to look into further. When I was there there was more than one, so he might have hit a time when the others were pulled elsewhere. If it was one, Tin is correct. Unfortunately, people do call in sick sometimes on the worst days, but I do not think this was the case on the 31st.
    This was as reported by my wife - blame her!!! I kiiid, I kiiid. As I passed those stations on the way to grab a truely delicious burger, I saw two guys behind there, and a very long line waiting to get served. I imagine some of the pissue was signage, but the salads and sammies will inevitably take more time per customer. I hope the staffing plan takes that into account.

    BTW, has anyone been to Allyn's Lodge yet this season. Win had committed to improving the foodservice options there for this winter and I'm wondering what changes have transpired. Thankfully, we appear to have seen the last of Mr. and Mrs. Surlysausage.

  8. #23

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ice Coast
    Posts
    145

    Hard starts, food service quality, and the Pitcher Inn

    A couple thoughts here. Hard starts are the fault of poor planning. Period. It happens all the time in real industry (big industry Win like at Merck, Pfizer, P&G, Dupont). People who are good at start ups have the ability to plan well and complete the project on time with some walk thrus prior to turning the crank. The tough start was obvious before it ever opened the door. It was in the planning details. Period. As a veteran of numerous major facility start-ups (200 million plus) this was obvious from 20,000 ft. Staffing problems were no surprise as there wasn't a lot of walk throughs or water runs as they are often called. The food service overall at SB needs a philosophical improvement and it starts with the management placing value on the employees through solid training programs and getting them on board early. When the "team" dons the uniform at kick off, you can expect some troubles. Now, to the Pitcher Inn. Before everyone goes nuts on the place, be aware that it is not an end all. Not even close. It doesn't hold a candle to standard restaurants in major cities such as Philadelphia, NYC, Boston. Again service is an issue and often slow, sure appearance is on the high side, but overall this is not a Zagat top 10, a Susanna Foo, etc.

  9. #24

    Re: Hard starts, food service quality, and the Pitcher Inn

    Quote Originally Posted by ahm
    A couple thoughts here. Hard starts are the fault of poor planning. Period. It happens all the time in real industry (big industry Win like at Merck, Pfizer, P&G, Dupont). People who are good at start ups have the ability to plan well and complete the project on time with some walk thrus prior to turning the crank. The tough start was obvious before it ever opened the door. It was in the planning details. Period. As a veteran of numerous major facility start-ups (200 million plus) this was obvious from 20,000 ft. Staffing problems were no surprise as there wasn't a lot of walk throughs or water runs as they are often called. The food service overall at SB needs a philosophical improvement and it starts with the management placing value on the employees through solid training programs and getting them on board early. When the "team" dons the uniform at kick off, you can expect some troubles. Now, to the Pitcher Inn. Before everyone goes nuts on the place, be aware that it is not an end all. Not even close. It doesn't hold a candle to standard restaurants in major cities such as Philadelphia, NYC, Boston. Again service is an issue and often slow, sure appearance is on the high side, but overall this is not a Zagat top 10, a Susanna Foo, etc.
    La Habichuela..I seem to have Mexico on the brain this a.m.... you ever been? Best place I ever dined. Not much of a world traveler but I have been to a few really nice spots. A, will I see you at 'da bush this season?

  10. #25

    Timbers

    We hadn't been up to our condo since last March. Drove up the access road on Tues. (usually drive up West Hill) to check out the new complex. WOW! I'd paid attention to the photos shared on this page, but you need to see it to fully appreciate it. We stopped by Timbers for a drink on Sat. late afternoon--walked down the hill from Snow Creek (now that's convenient!). It was a bit disorganized behind the bar. We overheard some talk of service problems. However, this will certainly all be fixed up soon. I must say that the sight of new Gatehouse/Claybrook/Timbers is beyond inspiring. We met up with two couples, friends of ours but not owners, infrequent Sugarbush visitors in the past. They were both making plans to come back up soon. Always major-league skiing, the new GH/CB surely propels SB to the high end of the total NE ski resort experience. I know we all share this view, but I'm totally thrilled, even proud, of this accomplishment!

  11. #26

    Re: Hard starts, food service quality, and the Pitcher Inn

    Quote Originally Posted by skiladi
    La Habichuela..I seem to have Mexico on the brain this a.m.... you ever been? Best place I ever dined. Not much of a world traveler but I have been to a few really nice spots. A, will I see you at 'da bush this season?
    Didn't James Taylor sing a song about what happens down there??? What was the name of that song? Ohhh yeh....Mexico
    "Quietly Heartbroken Tennis Player."

  12. #27

    Vt. service

    "Now, to the Pitcher Inn. Before everyone goes nuts on the place, be aware that it is not an end all. Not even close. It doesn't hold a candle to standard restaurants in major cities such as Philadelphia, NYC, Boston. Again service is an issue and often slow, sure appearance is on the high side, but overall this is not a Zagat top 10, a Susanna Foo, etc."

    Fair point. However, you can't fairly expect big city service in Warren, Vt. I consciously lower my expectations by at least 10% whenever outside a major city (however, I do try not to reduce the tip!). Lots of our friends don't, and they're constantly bitching about poor service, whether at Pinehurst, Palm Beach, Warren, whereever.

  13. #28

    Might be nice to give the new places....

    ....a chance to show what they are capable of....especially as the closed and shuttered places in the valley haven't exactly been replaced with new, thriving establishments (indicating perhaps a very difficult business environment). It sounds as if SV is both listening and aware of issues....and if past evidence indicates potential future results....things should move in a positive direction.

    With regard to Big City / Susanna Foo places (and her joint is definitely one of the great eateries on a planetary level).....I may be odd but I don't really seek them out - due to feeling that for every great high end eatery delivering stellar food and service and value, there are twenty more that are over priced, pretentious, under-delivering joints where the type of people I don't really jibe with go to blow hot air up eachother's skirts and jackets. Just a personal observation, and YMMV. (I think my taste buds are middle brow. I can remember fondly the joy of crunching across peanut shells everybody tossed on the floor at that place who's name I can't remember that had those awful/wonderful fakey char burgers - ah, the good old days when burgers/fries and shakes didn't mean insta-love handles).

    You look long enough and hard enough at anything, even the Mona Lisa, and you're going to find something to complain about. There's a fine line between constructive observations and nit-picky jabs. And one person's Mona Lisa is another's Velvet Elvis....we ain't all gonna find beauty in the same thing.....or eatery. Perhaps this is why I feel the individual and unique eatery offerings within the valley make the cuisine, overall, darn impressive for such a small place. Toss in a committment to using local foods and supporting the local environmental and people....and I think the valley chomping trough is pretty special. I don't hear much about comittments like that in most other places I put food in my tummy.....at home or when travelling.

    Note: I'm not making this post with regard to any specific observations/complaints/kudos in this thread. Just thinking out loud about food service industry start ups.....which have something like an 80% failure rate....and that there are unique challenges presented in a seasonal/resort setting with regard to every aspect of putting plates in front of paying customers. I sense the vision/intent and the "in seat experience" of the new places at LP base will merge before too long. I'm sure we can all root for that. Now about that 4-star rib joint in Allyn's......

  14. #29

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Northfield, Vt.
    Posts
    57

    I ate at Timbers over the Holliday Week and...

    Had the worst service in my life. The place was run worse that a Applebee's! I did have dinner reservations and I did confirm that 5 were coming. I waited at the bar for 10min while our table was being set....if I were @ Applebee's I would have been served a beer quicker! If I could even order a beer or get bartender to make eye contact (I don't look like my avitar). We were seated and waited 25min. for a drink order. At least we had the menu's to keep us busy. I guess I went in with high expctations? This is a resort right? We ordered a bottle of wine which was uncorked thru the foil Oops...Then the waiter broke the cork off in the bottle, but managed to get it out safely. We ordered our food, which took another 25-30 min to see our soup. The soup was luke warm at best. Orderd some more wine for the table and same uncorking routine. Finally our main courses arrive After more than 1.5. The food was cold. I was in a party of 5 and all of the entree's were cold. At this point there was no sense sending back b/c we were starved. When the waiter came over to see how things were we said "ok, but the food is cold". No sense in getting mad at the waitstaff if it is the kitchen's fault? She offered to buy us desert, which I thought was a nice gesture. Our table declined because none of us wanted a sugar rush after midnight For what was charged as "upscale" and what the end product was....I feel like it was a "shake down" as they say on the Soprano's Sorry to be sarcastic and blunt but that is how I feel about my dining expierence.
    On another note: My folkes went over for drinks the following day and sat @ the bar for 15min without a bartender making any eye contact. They asked the couple sitting next to them if they have been served yet. They replied NO. They were there 5-10 min longer than my folkes. This needs to be straightened out. I hope SV gets this problem resolved.

    If there was some sort of F&B general manager to oversee operations in the infancy, problems/complaints like these could be less or avoided all together. I will give it one more shot for dinner @ the bar in a month or so. Hopefully things will improve.





    P.S. The place wasn't even full. Maybe 45-50 people seated in the dining room.
    "If I had a magic wand and I could change skiing. I would make it exactly the way it was before snowboarding came along." G.P.

  15. #30

    Service Service Service and Training....

    ........they go together.
    Often times the "training" or "practice" portion is overlooked or simply not frequent enough to reap the reward of it's value to improve the "Service" which doesn't just naturally come from hiring talent and must be orchestrated.
    Suggestions from the guests should always be considered welcome ideas that hopefully foster positive change for the experience as well as the prosperity of the resort and the people that work there.

    A couple of suggestions for Timbers would be:
    Training the Bartenders and Waitstaff during non-peak times with "mock" scenes of larger groups of guests so they are a bit more impressive when the real life scenario takes place.
    Three talkative bartenders between 3:00 and 6:00 (they'll be busy) who remain behind the bar and not disappear.
    Food service by "waitstaff" at the bar and lounge area, without over-burdening the bartender.
    Waitstaff for the lounge area from 12:00 - 6:00
    Relocate the lounge area (very comfortable) leather chairs away from the bar about 10 feet.
    Absolutely NO Broadcast Television, and only ski related video, weather, and resort photos, video, news and events.
    A jazz piano and or guitarist from 4:00- 5:00 placed out in the center of the lounge.

    And a few suggestions for CR Pub would be
    NO congregating Children at the tables (It's a PUB? Right.......).
    Replace the low tables with only the cafe hieght tables allowing patrons to "lean" when no seats are available, intead of trying to squat next to their friends.
    Open the deli as self serve for food and relieve the bartendenders and waitstaff from the chore of taking and delivering food orders.

    I know, it's easy to solve the problem looking in from the outside, and I'm sure there are "hidden" issues not being considered here, although some of these suggestions are fairly easy to implement, would inhance the guest experience, certainly increase the revenue, and hopefully improve the bottom line.

    Otherwise these new facilties are an awesome and long awaited positive change here at the LP base area, and it's only a matter of time (once they catch their collective breath) before Win and team get the "obvious" small wrinkles ironed out.

    Anyone have any others?

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