July 22 Visit to Base

**madskier6** · 07-24-2006, 02:20 PM

I was at the base of Lincoln Peak this past weekend and the project is looking great! What a change a few weeks makes. The new Gatehouse Lodge is being erected, lots of site work has been done and Claybrook is looking good.

I really liked the position of the new GH Lodge in relation to Super Bravo chair, Gatehouse chair and Claybrook. There is a lot more space in back of the new lodge for skiers to ski between Gatehouse and Super Bravo chairs. That was always somewhat of a bottleneck in year's past. They have done lots of excavating to enlarge this back area. It is almost unrecognizable from even one year ago. The retaining wall they are installing back there looks real nice. The new lodge is going to be significantly larger than the old one.

The foundation of Timbers Restaurant appears to be nearly complete (from a layman's perspective anyway). It also appeared to me that they are working on the foundation (or ground work) for the swimming pool. The huge amount of site work that Win mentioned in one of his posts is evident by strolling the grounds. While I know some people were frustrated at the lack of progress a few weeks ago, all that site work will pay off this winter and next spring/summer when they move to the next phase.

While still a work in progress, I'm writing to tell you that significant progress is being made and it all looks real good to my eyes. I can't wait to check out the new base in December after the snow flies. I think they're doing a great job with this project and I'm very bullish on Sugarbush and its future. Keep up the good work, Win and Summit Ventures!

**daevious** · 07-25-2006, 03:12 PM

Here is a shot of Claybrook from a day or two later (7/24):

A huge version of this photo is here.

**ltng92** · 07-29-2006, 02:28 PM

Will this Clay Brook monstrosity and new base lodge be totally completed by this winter? It better look nice. I'm still mad about them building a huge resort at Sugarbush. This will only attract more crowds to Sugarbush, which has always been generally uncrowded. The small crowds are the main reason why I've returned to Sugarbush each winter.

**Bubba** · 07-29-2006, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by ltng92

Will this Clay Brook monstrosity and new base lodge be totally completed by this winter? It better look nice. I'm still mad about them building a huge resort at Sugarbush. This will only attract more crowds to Sugarbush, which has always been generally uncrowded. The small crowds are the main reason why I've returned to Sugarbush each winter.

We all enjoy having a private mountain. However, the resort cannot operate without paying guests. Like it or not, Win et al do not have unlimmited funds to support our addiction. For those of us that count on the crowds to pay our own bills it will be good.
You just have to pick your days. Mid week is always nice. Don't ski on holidays if you don't want to deal with a crowd.
If you know where to go you can always find some solitude.

**Lostone** · 07-29-2006, 04:22 PM

This will only attract more crowds to Sugarbush

They certainly hope so.

I would love for you to buy the mountain and only let about 100 of us ski it. (Uh... I would be one of the hundred, wouldn't I?

) Unfortunately, while we're waiting for you to come up with the money, they are continuing to work toward attracting people here.

What Bubba said! Avoid peak days, and there is still plenty of skiing to be had. Visit K-Mart. Then come back and look around. We can still do a lot of sharing, and still have a nice time.

**Lostone** · 07-29-2006, 04:24 PM

And in answer to your question, yes, they are going to do their very verrrry best to have everything completed before the opening of South.

**noski** · 07-29-2006, 04:26 PM

WORD! You are all hired.

**Tin Woodsman** · 07-29-2006, 07:25 PM

I actually view this building as a huge positive for both SB and the skiing experience. Think about it - the best way to generate cash flow in the skiing biz is through real estate. A building like this, with just 66 units, will not really have any substantive impaqct on the numbers of skiers at SB. Will it attract others by changing the SB image somehow? Maybe, but that really reamins to be seen and likely isn't fundamental to the Summit Ventures business case for Claybtook anyway. All they need to do is sell out those units, and that will generate more than enough to do what they need to do w/o bringing more than a 100 or so new skiers to SB (it goes w/o saying that a large % of people taking units already were SB skiers).

So it's a win/win for Win. They make money, we continue to enjoy a realtively uncrowded mountain. Even on holidays, SB crowds can't hold a candle to its neighbors to the north and south.

**noski** · 07-30-2006, 06:35 AM

The Valley's lodging business sector made a public statement of full support for the project when it was proposed. Though no one wants to put all their economic eggs in one basket, the success and growth in skier visits at Sugarbush are a key component of the overall economic health and future of what we hold so dear.

**Tin Woodsman** · 07-30-2006, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by noski

The Valley's lodging business sector made a public statement of full support for the project when it was proposed. Though no one wants to put all their economic eggs in one basket, the success and growth in skier visits at Sugarbush are a key component of the overall economic health and future of what we hold so dear.

Successful Claybrook = successful Sugarbush

Successful Sugarbush = successful MRV

The first part of the equation doesn't necessarily involve more people on the hill at SB, at least directly. Indirectly, via a halo effect about SB, it might lead to more for the second part of the equation.

07-31-2006, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman

I actually view this building as a huge positive for both SB and the skiing experience. Think about it - the best way to generate cash flow in the skiing biz is through real estate. A building like this, with just 66 units, will not really have any substantive impaqct on the numbers of skiers at SB. Will it attract others by changing the SB image somehow? Maybe, but that really reamins to be seen and likely isn't fundamental to the Summit Ventures business case for Claybtook anyway. All they need to do is sell out those units, and that will generate more than enough to do what they need to do w/o bringing more than a 100 or so new skiers to SB (it goes w/o saying that a large % of people taking units already were SB skiers).

Great observations. I look at the Lincoln Peak Village project simply as a modernization of Sugarbush Resort.

Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman

So it's a win/win for Win.

Is that like Win³ or something...?

**win** · 07-31-2006, 11:54 AM

Thank for the responses to Itng92. I would just add a couple of things. Over the past decade or so the Valley had losst nearly 100,000 rental unit days over the ski season. We are only replacing some of that. In the past and before high speed quads and the snowmaking system we have at Lincoln Peak, it was estimated that Sugarbush had nearly 400,000 skier visits. With adequate base facilities the Comfortable Carrying Capacity at Sugarbush in approximately 11,000 skier visits per day. The most we have had since our ownership is 7,600 and when all lifts are running and the full mountain is open the longest lift lines from 10am - 11am have been less than 10 minutes. The biggest issue facing Sugarbush since I have been skiing here (nearly 40 years) were the base lodges at Lincoln Peak which were aged and too small. The new Gate House will be a huge improvement. it is true that Holdiay weeks are going to be more crowded everywhere, but the terrain, the natural bowl at Lincoln Peak and the availability of Mount Ellen, means that we will still be relatively uncrowded . If we get the skier days that Sugarbush once had, I would be thrilled, and I would some love to limit the number of daily tickets like they do at Deer Valley. Be assumed that the owners own Sugarbush because we love to ski and ride. We don't cut lines and we want Sugarbush to have the qualities that people love. However, we do need to modernize and we do need to grow somewhat to stay financially viable.

Yes, it will be ready. Try it. I think you'll like it.

**freeheel_skier** · 07-31-2006, 09:00 PM

Amen Win! I think it would be cool to see a return to the good ole "glory days" @ the bush! Now I must get back to replacing the rear cassette on my mountain bike

**smootharc** · 08-01-2006, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by freeheel_skier

Now I must get back to replacing the rear cassette on my mountain bike

...upper "along the ridge" heading North/East trail starting behind SB Inn / SouthFace Condos last Friday....rideable I believe by gnarlier folks than me. I rode, I walked, I rode, I walked. All the while getting chewed by Deer flies. I need to find the valley's trails for "middle aged, formerly gnarly, but currently faux-gnarly, guys". That trail ain't it, but I'm gonna keep looking !

**smootharc** · 08-01-2006, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by win

Over the past decade or so the Valley had lost nearly 100,000 rental unit days over the ski season.

Wow !

Originally Posted by win

The most we have had since our ownership is 7,600.

I read somewhere last year that Vail's peak sales of WALK UP DAY TICKETS last season was some Sunday where they sold, I hope I'm getting this right, something like 28,000 walk up day tickets. Boggled my mind.

Originally Posted by win

....the owners own Sugarbush because we love to ski and ride. We don't cut lines...

You're a bigger man than me....if I were you I'd be known as the "King of Cutsies"....barging the queue all over the mountain in the name of "ownership research".

------

One observation I'd add that might also have merit is how much terrain SB has between the official Trail Map terrain.....way, way more than most areas and a monster plus in terms of the place feeling even more uncrowded than it is. One powder day late last season I skied between 10' and 50' feet in the woods off the edge of one popular South trail that had quite a few folks on it all day, and I was alone in freshie heaven run after run.

Are there any reliable comparison numbers to say a Killington, Okemo, Stratton on their peak days in comparison to the 7,600 above ? I'm assuming it's dramatically more ?