Anybody else feeling jumpy?

[smootharc]

....his money is. Kudos to Mr. Smith for suggesting such a meeting.

This is the latest in numerous instances where the SB and SV folks have shown they care enough to engage, respond, educate....and stand in the line of fire with regard to customer concerns and complaints. Wow !

Try that as most other companies this size and scope, and you'll find yourself being seduced by a PR expert with an Ivy MBA named Claire (sorry to all the Claire's out there) who, once she's expertly skooched you out the door (like the Grinch with Cindy-loo-who), leaves you wondering why you went there in the first place.

Edit: (With) Wish I could be there, and I will await with interest some feedback.

[Schusseur]

That's right smootharc. But in the end the "claires" of the PR world don't work out. The customers just end up voting with their feet. In this case we're not talking about which loaf of bread to buy. Folks choosing a weekend retreat are making a big decision and are fairly 'locked-in' with condos and passes, etc. But it ain't pre-1984 AT&T either.

It all starts with communication from the top. Not the PR version, because that's just so transparent. I personally have a number of frustrations about the bush, but am realistic enough to know it's a brutal business and the grass may not be whiter elsewhere.

Looking forward to communicating with the SV team. I promise to be well-mannered and respectful. Slight chance I won't be around next weekend - but no matter, Win has thrown the ball back in the gripers' court, and that is highly appreciated.

[HowieT2]

I am 38 and have been skiing the bush consistently now for about 5 years. This coincides with my kids becoming skiers now that they are of age. Do I have issues, certainly. But I think the mountain did as good a job as possible considering the awful weather this winter.
I have a number of friends from NY, Westchester, Ct who love Sugarbush/MRV and will be making it their permanent ski base as soon as finances permit it. We all are looking for things that the competition can't offer but MRV does. Namely, great skiing and sparse crowds. These qualities are inconsistent with the kind of "nightlife" say KMart has. So be it.

In speaking to those interested in skiing from my area I think there are a number of issues which should be addressed. First of all, the on mountain (not just the base) food situation can only get better. Not only would it please the customers but there is revenue to be made. While the new lodge and Claybrook will be great, I think there is a need for more housing on mountain without necesarily the kind os service (and prices) at Claybrook.
Most significantly, MRV must do a better job marketing in this area. There is a perception that MRV is just too far, especially for a weekend. A large part of the market here, believes that there only choices are Killington, Okemo and Stratten. While there is no denying those areas are closer, the difference is not that great. MRV should have some kind of plan to get people up for weekends so that they can see (and spread the word) that it isn't really that far.
Win, I rode up with you on the first chair on friday of Superbowl weekend. Despite your optimism, the tropical rains that followed shortly thereafter really put a damper on things. Better luck next year with the snow.

[ski_resort_observer]

I am 38 and have been skiing the bush consistently now for about 5 years. This coincides with my kids becoming skiers now that they are of age. Do I have issues, certainly. But I think the mountain did as good a job as possible considering the awful weather this winter.
I have a number of friends from NY, Westchester, Ct who love Sugarbush/MRV and will be making it their permanent ski base as soon as finances permit it. We all are looking for things that the competition can't offer but MRV does. Namely, great skiing and sparse crowds. These qualities are inconsistent with the kind of "nightlife" say KMart has. So be it.

In speaking to those interested in skiing from my area I think there are a number of issues which should be addressed. First of all, the on mountain (not just the base) food situation can only get better. Not only would it please the customers but there is revenue to be made. While the new lodge and Claybrook will be great, I think there is a need for more housing on mountain without necesarily the kind os service (and prices) at Claybrook.
Most significantly, MRV must do a better job marketing in this area. There is a perception that MRV is just too far, especially for a weekend. A large part of the market here, believes that there only choices are Killington, Okemo and Stratten. While there is no denying those areas are closer, the difference is not that great. MRV should have some kind of plan to get people up for weekends so that they can see (and spread the word) that it isn't really that far.
Win, I rode up with you on the first chair on friday of Superbowl weekend. Despite your optimism, the tropical rains that followed shortly thereafter really put a damper on things. Better luck next year with the snow.

Wonderful post!

I agree with both of your points. The Bush has for many years had a bad rep for on mountain food. I think SV has made some good improvenments(Allyn Lodge, better food in Gatehouse and Green Mt Lodge) but there still is plenty of room for improvement. I assume your talking about food in the base lodges and on mountain places not what might be available in the Claybrook complex. SV hired a new F&B guy a year or so ago. He is Austrian which I thought was a cool conection with the early history of the Bush. Not sure if he is still there.

In the 5 years I worked there I don't think I ever bought food at any of the base lodges even with the generous employee discount except for really fantastic but pricey burgers at the Mushroom so I honestly have no first hand eating experience last winter but heard lots of comments.

Surprisingly I think there was better cooperation regarding marketing between MRG and the Bush back in the ASC days. The Ski the Valley program is good and the recently name changed MRV Chamber does a great job in providing a communication bridge between the two resorts but it has to be crossed to produce results.

The Bush and MRG, for example, used to do a combined ski show booth. Tthe best part of doing those shows was the chance to hang out with Eric F. of MRG. Very upbeat, casual and funny person. I was sorta glad when I was not asked to do ski shows last winter. As you pointed out a combined effort in the marketing area would be a very good thing.

[Strat]

I assume your talking about food in the base lodges and on mountain places not what might be available in the Claybrook complex. SV hired a new F&B guy a year or so ago. He is Austrian which I thought was a cool conection with the early history of the Bush. Not sure if he is still there.

If you mean Peter Nohl, then yes, I'm pretty sure he's still there.

[ski_resort_observer]

I assume your talking about food in the base lodges and on mountain places not what might be available in the Claybrook complex. SV hired a new F&B guy a year or so ago. He is Austrian which I thought was a cool conection with the early history of the Bush. Not sure if he is still there.

If you mean Peter Nohl, then yes, I'm pretty sure he's still there.

Thanks

[Dr. NO]

Rather than respond to what are some very uninformed comments posted on skimrv.com, I invite anyone who is interested to join me for a beer in The Mushroom next Saturday, March 25th at 4pm. I would be happy to listen to any and all comments and suggestions, and I would like to share with everyone in person what is really happening and why. I also invite anyone to email me directly at wsmith@sugarbush.com if you want a straight answer to anything or call me at 802-583-6332. I appreciate the passion of those who post on skimrv.com, but some of the comments are not based on perspective or knowledge of what is really happening or what it takes to run a resort successful, so I welcome the opportunity to speak with all of you in person next week or at another time if it is more convenient.

I enjoy the fact that you wish to listen and comment. One gripe I have is, not knowing who you were, the lift line on a windy day STOPPED. People were talking to this person in the line, thus stopping the line. It was YOU. 50 minutes after getting into line, I got to my race course. Maybe you could talk while they move? Afterward, I saw you name tag. Not impressed by labels, by now know who you and your position.

BTW, seeing you twice when up at the Bush was good. Shows you want to know how things are going and be a part of the crowd and mountain.

[castlerock]

One gripe I have is, not knowing who you were, the lift line on a windy day STOPPED. People were talking to this person in the line, thus stopping the line. It was YOU. 50 minutes after getting into line, I got to my race course. Maybe you could talk while they move?

Uhhhh Dr. No.....Did any empty chairs go up during the conversation? If not. I don't get it.......

[jmon]

I will not be up this weekend, and will be up for Pond Skimming. I appreciate Win's offer, but never took Win up on the offer early in season for coffee - namely for the reason in #1:


1) Rejected of my corp pass group (Andrew K. group) but accepted Thomas H., so how did that happen? Note I gave Tom your email addy, and he had already been rejected. You folks play favorites, and have a horrid pass program. And by extension poor marketing.

2)Where is the new season pass program? ASC already has there's rolled out?! back to marketing problems.

3) I <theoretically> sourced tickets for 32.50 cents again this year, so how was this a good business decision on your part for #1? heck we were willing to give more $$ than your corp progrm asked for!

As to nightlife, well does not ASC own the Wobbly? There is precedent for mountains to own nightlife and restraunts. Or not which is fine. But to do what SV did....own it, steam roll it into the ground, and trade it for affordable housing?? SIGH. Not to be at fault though completely is SV; the prior owner was a bit tired of running the show and the business climate in MRV seems tough as of late, look at the number of places closing or sold in last 2 years(rositas,bass,gallaghers,mad mountain, hydeaway for sale,downhill edge,blue tooth). This sounds like a rant on the Tooth closing, it is not, more of an example.

My point is the symbiotic nature of a resort and it's surroundings-and there has never been more of a disjoint in the MRV than now.

Believe me, I would rather stay, but the lack of options OUTSIDE of the mountain gets tiresome. And the Bush is pricey now, and what do you get is my point in comparison? People buy places in MRV for emotional reasons and love of the area, but clearly buying at other mountains is a better business decision/investment.


IF SV and MRV wants to be a family mountain, they are ignoring a large spending demographic is my point. And this demographic turns into the family demo.

If I wanted no nightlife, another 30 minutes gets me to Jay and lots MORE POW.

Believe me, I know Killington well, and it is not my ideal, but I'll trade the negatives and recruit very person from MRV I can in the meantime, just like I and my fellow ski share house runenrs have done for 7 years to ASC...and it will not be difficult. I/we spent 7+/- years at the bush, and recruited lots of people from Killington, so this does not come lightly to leave and set up base elsewhere for next season(s).


Maybe SV is just having marketing issues, maybe the bad season exacerbated feelings, but I am not alone in my thoughts...there might be a reason the slopes are empty...folks are voting with their feet.



-Josh

[smootharc]

If I wanted no nightlife, another 30 minutes gets me to Jay and lots MORE POW.

....is, according to Mapquest....from Rt100/Access road to Jay Peak base area is 74 miles, and estimated driving time of 1hr 51minutes. But perhaps you mean from where you start it's +30minutes more to Jay.

Anyone have a nifty "secret way" to Jay from the valley I'd love to hear about it....figure I should hit JP at least once a winter.

Can't comment on all the rest of your problems. Must say I like the valley and believe it's a great place....but I'm older and not necessarily wiser.

[skibum1321]

3) I <theoretically> sourced tickets for 32.50 cents again this year, so how was this a good business decision on your part for #1? heck we were willing to give more $$ than your corp progrm asked for!

As to nightlife, well does not ASC own the Wobbly? There is precedent for mountains to own nightlife and restraunts. Or not which is fine. But to do what SV did....own it, steam roll it into the ground, and trade it for affordable housing?? SIGH. Not to be at fault though completely is SV; the prior owner was a bit tired of running the show and the business climate in MRV seems tough as of late, look at the number of places closing or sold in last 2 years(rositas,bass,gallaghers,mad mountain, hydeaway for sale,downhill edge,blue tooth). This sounds like a rant on the Tooth closing, it is not, more of an example.

My point is the symbiotic nature of a resort and it's surroundings-and there has never been more of a disjoint in the MRV than now.

Believe me, I would rather stay, but the lack of options OUTSIDE of the mountain gets tiresome. And the Bush is pricey now, and what do you get is my point in comparison? People buy places in MRV for emotional reasons and love of the area, but clearly buying at other mountains is a better business decision/investment.


IF SV and MRV wants to be a family mountain, they are ignoring a large spending demographic is my point. And this demographic turns into the family demo.

If I wanted no nightlife, another 30 minutes gets me to Jay and lots MORE POW.

Believe me, I know Killington well, and it is not my ideal, but I'll trade the negatives and recruit very person from MRV I can in the meantime, just like I and my fellow ski share house runenrs have done for 7 years to ASC...and it will not be difficult. I/we spent 7+/- years at the bush, and recruited lots of people from Killington, so this does not come lightly to leave and set up base elsewhere for next season(s).


Maybe SV is just having marketing issues, maybe the bad season exacerbated feelings, but I am not alone in my thoughts...there might be a reason the slopes are empty...folks are voting with their feet.



-Josh

You complain it is too expensive and yet you say that you were willing to give them more money than you paid for your corporate pass. That seems kind of contradictory to me.

Maybe you should stop whining about what you don't like about the Bush. Having read all of your posts now, it seems to be more of a personal vendetta against management than anything else. You are like a little kid that won't listen to anyone else. If you have a problem with management, he is giving you a prime opportunity to go talk to him about it. But instead you want to sit in the corner and pout.

If you are really that fed up with the MRV, then just leave. We've heard your issues - there is a nice board called K-zone that you can go join. Have fun at Kmart.

[win]

I am looking forward to meeting with those you can make it this weekend, and I will also be pleased to get an email with any thoughts or questions from those who can not make it this Saturday at 4pm.


Schusseur asked a question about the snowfall which I will answer. We did get approximately 15" on the top of the mountain on Monday. The past couple of storms have been a bit unusual in that they dropped snow on the Western side of the Green Mountains and the higher elevations but not as much even at midstation or the base area. Where I live in East Warren there was no more than 2" and even at the base that morning probably less than 6", but when we got to the top we discovered 12-15". When you got over the Roxbury gap and south a couple of miles there was hardly anything and it is brown by the time you get to Exit 3 on 89. For the snowreport we attempt to show an average so as to not mislead. Arguably, we have been too conservative this year with our reporting as I look at other resort's reports.

It is skiing and riding really well and the forecast for the rest of the week looks very favorable with more snow showers and warmer and possibly partly sunny skies for the weekend. We have 97 trails open this morning. I believe that this is the most number of trails in New England today. Okemo is reporting 91, Killington 94 and Sunday River 90.

Win

[Tin Woodsman]

Schusseur asked a question about the snowfall which I will answer. We did get approximately 15" on the top of the mountain on Monday. The past couple of storms have been a bit unusual in that they dropped snow on the Western side of the Green Mountains and the higher elevations but not as much even at midstation or the base area. Where I live in East Warren there was no more than 2" and even at the base that morning probably less than 6", but when we got to the top we discovered 12-15". When you got over the Roxbury gap and south a couple of miles there was hardly anything and it is brown by the time you get to Exit 3 on 89. For the snowreport we attempt to show an average so as to not mislead. Arguably, we have been too conservative this year with our reporting as I look at other resort's reports.

I'm glad you've acknowledged this issue. Might I suggest that SB simply post a snowfall range like MRG? The simple fact of mountain weather is that for a variety of reasons, you'll get more snow at the top than you do at the bottom. IMO, there should be no hesitation to point out that Heaven's Gate has 15" while LP base has 6" new. The truth is what it is, and skiers are by and large smart enough to figure things out. Thankfully, SB does NOT include the October dump in its seasonal snowfall totals - a completely misleading tactic employed by some resorts in New England.

It is skiing and riding really well and the forecast for the rest of the week looks very favorable with more snow showers and warmer and possibly partly sunny skies for the weekend. We have 97 trails open this morning. I believe that this is the most number of trails in New England today. Okemo is reporting 91, Killington 94 and Sunday River 90.

This is good to see, I suppose, but I think trail counts are the single most misleading statistic in skiing considering all the upper, lower and middle thus-and-such names masquerading as individual trails.

[HowieT2]

I'll take you up on that beer as I just resolved a matter at work and can therefore ski this weekend.

[madskier6]

Rather than respond to what are some very uninformed comments posted on skimrv.com, I invite anyone who is interested to join me for a beer in The Mushroom next Saturday, March 25th at 4pm. I would be happy to listen to any and all comments and suggestions, and I would like to share with everyone in person what is really happening and why.

I will definitely be there on Saturday. As others have said, I think it's great that Win is doing this. I hope, however, that the discussion is civil. See you on Saturday.