discount tickets for sale

[ski_resort_observer]

Rather, what are resorts trying to prevent with the no-resale rule?

The simple answer is loss of income and fraud prevention. Does it make logical sense from the consumer's perspective? Don't think so. Remember this is not just a Sugarbush rule. Every week at every resort, the various departments, especially those involved with selling things, are under alot of pressure these days "to make budget". They feel it's to their financial survival to squeeze every dollar they can out of every revenue channel they have.

It happens in lodging as well. If you book an expensive vac package, even months in advance, at most resorts and have to cancel within 7 days of arrival you will probably lose the cost of the first night, can be hundreds of dollars. A couple of days, after you cancel, the resort books your unit for the same time period. Do they call you up and refund the money they kept? Course not, they have the money of the replacement booking, basically reselling it, plus they have your money as well. Sure, they all could do what a few resorts do(will give you a full refund if the unit is rebooked), but most don't cause that would result in a loss of income. Heck, it's even a line item, on the revenue forcasts, they put together.

Alot of things in the business world don't make alot of sense to us consumers but they are still there to bite us in the butt every so often.

[KingM]

Personally, I was just asking for clarification, not being critical of SB. Actually, the explanation of discount tickets being then sold at a markup makes sense to me. I was thinking only in terms of full-priced tickets. And of course, the problem is not the guy who gets legitimately injured or can't otherwise ski and wants to sell his ticket, it's the hustlers who have made the rules necessary.

Do they call you up and refund the money they kept? Course not, they have the money of the replacement booking, basically reselling it, plus they have your money as well.

We do refund if we rebook at the Golden Lion Inn, although sometimes I wonder if it's wise, as people tend to not believe us when we don't rebook the room and therefore haven't refunded the first night. Sometimes I think it would be better to have a one size fits all policy. Cancel too late, you pay the first night, no matter what.

[summitchallenger]

Could you see someone selling food in a supermarket parking lot at prices below the market's?

I think that this case is distinguished from your example. This is NOT what was going on. This analogy is not applicable.

You are then in competition with the ski area.

Again, not in this instance because he paid full value for them, from what I understand, and is selling them at a lower price. He is incurring a loss.

I have grabbed many a discount. Some were legal... some not. But it is kind of odd to see so many here saying it is perfectly alright. Also odd that many have looked toward mtnlady for official ifo from the mountain, but object to her protesting the public resale of tickets, undercutting the resort.

The point is that this could have been handled in a more diplomatic fashion. For example, a good friend of mine bought a season pass from Burke this past summer and broke his arm in December. Traditionally, most places don't refund for injuries, but Burke gave him back his money, no questions asked. What did he do? He told the ENTIRE world about what happened. In Alpine Zone, we've had many more people interested in skiing Burke, partially because of his story.

In this instance, we have someone in a similar position and an SB employee made a public attack against him. In essence, the ski area picked a fight with one of their customers. As someone who came from a family that ran a business, this is the LAST thing you would ever want to do....and doing it in public forum. You always want to make your customers happy and work to accomodate them. The best thing to have done would have been a PM saying, "listen, we understand your situation....think we can issue you some new ones for next season?" Instead of, "you are breaking the law...how dare you..." blasted over a megaphone. People do read these forums and a lot of us do listen to what is said and how it is said. In light of this and the Burke example, what is going to happen if someone asks me to refer them to a "friendly Northern Vermont resort?" Who would I be more inclined to suggest?

Is what he is doing illegal? Maybe it is. I don't know...haven't looked at the law. And as I said above, was this method of intervention worth the energy, negative publicity, etc? No, of course not. It just makes SB look in the eyes of their customers. Why would anyone want that?

My point is that this whole fiasco does not reflect very highly on SB or how it treats their customers, which is unfortunate.

[freeheel_skier]

Hey,
I have been a season pass holder going on 20yrs. I bought a season pass back in '03 and blew out my right knee hiking the LT that fall. I explaind my situation and a few phone calls SB issued me a credit toward the following season. Maybe it helped that everyone in my family has held season passes for the same amount of time....maybe not?

A friend of mine in Boston called 3 days after a pass deadline and they still gave him the early bird rate. Did they have to? No? The rules are the rules.....but SB bent them. There are many good stories that will go untold. No one will ever hear them.

People only hear/remember the negative. Few remember the positvie.

My .02

[ski_resort_observer]

Hey,
I have been a season pass holder going on 20yrs. I bought a season pass back in '03 and blew out my right knee hiking the LT that fall. I explaind my situation and a few phone calls SB issued me a credit toward the following season. Maybe it helped that everyone in my family has held season passes for the same amount of time....maybe not?

A friend of mine in Boston called 3 days after a pass deadline and they still gave him the early bird rate. Did they have to? No? The rules are the rules.....but SB bent them. There are many good stories that will go untold. No one will ever hear them.

People only hear/remember the negative. Few remember the positvie.

My .02

Great post. I sold season passes at the Bush, over the phone, for 5 years, including last season. We try to be a fair as possible and try to give people a break within the parameters of good business sense. If someone has bought a season pass before the season and injurers themselves so they cannot use the pass, giving them a credit for next years pass is pretty much normal operating procedure. Usually they require some sort of documentaion. TB made a great point about this. Understand that not everyone in that situation is happy as you were with that option. lol

If they call after the pass deadline we were tougher as we felt selling a pass after the deadline is very unfair to all the people that bought their pass before the deadline. If they are a former pass holder, have a decent reason(total judgement call) then sometimes they were given the cheaper price.

[freeheel_skier]

Anytime I have dealt with anyone @ SB over the phone they have been very friendly and accommodating. This year I helped out my parents with a season locker mix up and Vicki was very helpful.

I find that if the consumer/customer is willing to be flexable, you will be provided with more friendly options. If you start off with demands, you will be given the "company policy" routine. Sometimes it helps to be a nice customer! Then the person doing the selling will sympathize. At least I am when dealing with my customers.

Now when are we getting more snow?????

[smootharc]

Now when are we getting more snow?????

....just customer's of the great snow god Ullr....to perhaps rephrasing "Oh great Ullr, when are us unworthy, unwashed flake heathens going to be blessed with the benificence of your boundless white booty bounty ?"

[ski_resort_observer]

Sometimes it helps to be a nice customer! Then the person doing the selling will sympathize. At least I am when dealing with my customers.

I forgot to mention that. If the person is nice it really makes the whole process work better and for some reason "bending over backwards" for that customer seems almost painless. Oh, and Vicki is awesome.

I hope you don't mind but I will ignore that question about the snow. I think this weekend will be some fun spring skiing.

[Snowman]

summitchallenger

I think that this case is distinguished from your example. This is NOT what was going on. This analogy is not applicable.

I disagree.

This is not the Sugarbush parking lot, but it is a forum related to Sugarbush. As we are in an online world, the distance is negligible. He is reselling tickets in front of Sugarbush management, who, I'm pretty sure you are aware, were asked to participate.

To equate your example of Burke, you would have to start a forum for Burke, ask them to participate, then sell discount tickets. I'd bet they would object, too.

And as for that objection:

summitchallenger

"you are breaking the law...how dare you..." blasted over a megaphone.

Mtnlady
Resale of tickets is theft of service.

See the difference?

summitchallenger
The best thing to have done would have been a PM saying, "listen, we understand your situation....think we can issue you some new ones for next season?"

But if she did, you wouldn't know, and the same post still be up. I think what she did was what you would expect.

As for them being full price tickets,

fdskier

i have 8 tickets for sugarbush that i will not be able to use this year due to a knee injury.
i paid 35 for them.

I love Smugglers, but if they catch you with a bad lift ticket, or without one, they escort you to the office. I'll bet if they found you selling tickets at a lower rate than them, they would be very upset. Burke? Stowe? K-Mart? They'll all do their best to get the sales to stop.

[/quote]

[summitchallenger]

summitchallenger

I think that this case is distinguished from your example. This is NOT what was going on. This analogy is not applicable.

I disagree.

This is not the Sugarbush parking lot, but it is a forum related to Sugarbush. As we are in an online world, the distance is negligible. He is reselling tickets in front of Sugarbush management, who, I'm pretty sure you are aware, were asked to participate.

To equate your example of Burke, you would have to start a forum for Burke, ask them to participate, then sell discount tickets. I'd bet they would object, too.

You missed the point. He PAID for the vouchers and is reselling them at LESS than what he paid. He was not asking for more. That is scalping, what he is doing is not. Sugarbush GOT paid and he is incurring the loss. There is no undercutting because SB got their share.

As for the management in view, remember that this is a PRIVATE website that is NOT officially operated or affiliated with the ski area.

summitchallenger

"you are breaking the law...how dare you..." blasted over a megaphone.

Mtnlady
Resale of tickets is theft of service.

See the difference?

summitchallenger
The best thing to have done would have been a PM saying, "listen, we understand your situation....think we can issue you some new ones for next season?"

But if she did, you wouldn't know, and the same post still be up. I think what she did was what you would expect.

As for them being full price tickets,

fdskier

i have 8 tickets for sugarbush that i will not be able to use this year due to a knee injury.
i paid 35 for them.

I love Smugglers, but if they catch you with a bad lift ticket, or without one, they escort you to the office. I'll bet if they found you selling tickets at a lower rate than them, they would be very upset. Burke? Stowe? K-Mart? They'll all do their best to get the sales to stop.

[/quote]

The overall point again is that this is a public forum and that all eyes and ears are on the resort and how it responds. As someone said above, when someone does something bad everyone remembers. Why would you risk it as the resort? Why put your customers on the defensive in public? This makes no sense in a business world. Thousands are spent to bolster a public image....why risk squandering that by sending the hounds after someone who bought tickets, paid for them, and now can't use them because of an injury and is reselling them for less?

[summitchallenger]

Sometimes it helps to be a nice customer! Then the person doing the selling will sympathize. At least I am when dealing with my customers.

I forgot to mention that. If the person is nice it really makes the whole process work better and for some reason "bending over backwards" for that customer seems almost painless. Oh, and Vicki is awesome.

I hope you don't mind but I will ignore that question about the snow. I think this weekend will be some fun spring skiing.

I agree with this point. It does help when BOTH parties are flexible.

I've worked with some tough customers as well (no pun intended! ) but that does not give me a right to be aggressive or rude to people.

Now on to talking about skiing.....

[Snowman]

summitchallenger

You missed the point. He PAID for the vouchers and is reselling them at LESS than what he paid. He was not asking for more.

fdskier

i have 8 tickets for sugarbush that i will not be able to use this year due to a knee injury.
i paid 35 for them.

Emphasis mine

He says he paid $35. Full price is $63. Therefore if he were to resell them Sugarbush loses $28 per ticket.

Again, I have not seen the paperwork involved in the ticket sale, but most discounts state they are not for resale.

What Mtnlady did was to point out that is an illegal sale.
I'd have done the same.

[freeheel_skier]

Is it safe to assume that $35 is a bulk ticket price or a ski club discount? Are they all mountain or ME only?

[summitchallenger]

He says he paid $35. Full price is $63. Therefore if he were to resell them Sugarbush loses $28 per ticket.

Third time, sounding like a broken record. He PAID for them...specifically the value that SB put on them, which was $35. SB set the price, he tendered it. It is academic to say that they lost full value. If they wanted $63, they could have sold them for that. The price set was the price paid.

What Mtnlady did was to point out that is an illegal sale.
I'd have done the same.

Confront is a better verb. Others in this thread have felt the same way.

[tumbler]

I registered for this board just to reply to this thread! While I will agree that technically, reselling the tickets might be against the law, I think if you look at the big picture, you will agree that no harm is caused by reselling the tickets. The price he paid for the tickets is actually irrelevant - as long as he is not trying to sell them for more. The mountain set a price and sold him the tickets - now he is trying to sell them to someone who can use them. Not really a problem in my book.

As an example, if I walk up to the ticket window and buy a day ticket, then get notified of a family emergency (don't get caight up in the reason) that prevents me from being able to ski that day, would it be theft of service if I turn to the person in line behind me and sell them the ticket for the same price? I suspect the answer technically is yes - but the follow up question: "Is it worth it to do anything about it?", is where I say it's just good business sense to let the customer resell the ticket.

There's another angle I can also see, and that is that the reason the mountain sells blocks of discount tickets is the hope that they will not all be used, and that the un-used tickets will end up being a little bit of a windfall (or end up lifting the average price from the $35 they were sold for to something higher..). If this is the idea, then I can see why the mountain would frown on the resale (ie. you take your chances...).