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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    I think you missed Win's point. He said "Eastern equivalent" not "equivalent". There's a big difference. They are simply successful, independent resorts with great terrain. For the east, SB is absolutely the same thing.


    I don't see the "casual skier who does 5 runs and heads to the bar" as the typical Sugarbush passholder/skier. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt there will be people that jump ship to Epic, I just don't think it will be the mass exodus that I'm hearing some people predict. I will admit though that I do fall in that "25+ day pass holder" category that tends to not spend much other money at the mountain (sorry Win!). I have a few drinks at Wunderbar here and there. I eat lunch on mountain once in a blue moon. Normally I head over to Sugarbush village though to grab something at Pizza Soul or Mutha Stuffers for lunch.

    For the casual skier, I'd argue those are more the people that buy things like the Quad pack. Are people going to dump the Quad pack in favor of Epic? Hard to say but I don't think a lot of those people would.





    Do a lot of people really pay the full 1700 price? To me the early purchase price is the only one that matters for comparisons with other resorts. $1149 is decently reasonable (or at least in line with quite a few other resorts in VT)
    As I said in other posts here in on AZ that it is going to sting a little bit. There are quite a few families out there that will do a few trips up north and then a trip out west each season. I would have to think this is Vail's core Demographic for the east. If they can steal day tickets away from other mountains and secure the dollars for Vail. Then its a big win for Vail. Instead of those families taking a weekend at Sugarbush then another at Stratton, those families would put there all there dollars into the Vail product.
    As far as season pass holders, SB will loose some of those to Stowe based on price point along. I do not see SB season passes staying the same or increasing for the 17/18 season. Also all resorts and mostly Vermont will loose day ticket sales.
    Don't get me wrong I think Sugarbush is the best mtn in the east, but it always comes down to price for most consumers. You could have the best product in the world but if you are twice as much as your competitor, consumers won't care.
    Last edited by nhskier1969; 02-23-2017 at 05:00 PM.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    I think you missed Win's point. He said "Eastern equivalent" not "equivalent". There's a big difference. They are simply successful, independent resorts with great terrain. For the east, SB is absolutely the same thing.


    I don't see the "casual skier who does 5 runs and heads to the bar" as the typical Sugarbush passholder/skier. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt there will be people that jump ship to Epic, I just don't think it will be the mass exodus that I'm hearing some people predict. I will admit though that I do fall in that "25+ day pass holder" category that tends to not spend much other money at the mountain (sorry Win!). I have a few drinks at Wunderbar here and there. I eat lunch on mountain once in a blue moon. Normally I head over to Sugarbush village though to grab something at Pizza Soul or Mutha Stuffers for lunch.

    For the casual skier, I'd argue those are more the people that buy things like the Quad pack. Are people going to dump the Quad pack in favor of Epic? Hard to say but I don't think a lot of those people would.



    Do a lot of people really pay the full 1700 price? To me the early purchase price is the only one that matters for comparisons with other resorts. $1149 is decently reasonable (or at least in line with quite a few other resorts in VT)
    Very few do. I learned a long time ago that one can not be all things to all people. I believe that Vail coming East will be good for Stowe and good for us and some others. That's called a "Win-Win". 😀 We are not a public company so do not have to report quarterly earnings and meet growth expectations. I am happy to have the visits we have this year and sell a few more craft beers and grilled cheese at Walt's.

    Ps: our adult 7 for families has kids ski free if under 12 and is one of only 26 pass options.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by winjr View Post
    Ps: our adult 7 for families has kids ski free if under 12 and is one of only 26 pass options.
    Yup, I've made both of those arguments several times on another forum when saying that SB is not as expensive as some people think and offers a substantial variety of choices.

  4. #34
    Vail East (Stowe) is going to steal a lot of business with their Epic pass. MAX pass will continue to poach the skiers uncommitted to a single mountain.

    Why would SB sell a full-up pass for $1,779 if, as Win says, very few pay it? Seems like a broken pricing scheme. What else is broken about the current scheme?

    I pay for a full adult pass (no, not thirties, college, twenties, sixties, eighties, etc.) and will lose the benefit of my daughter's pass next year as she crosses eligible age threshold. It will be another $300 or more next year for me and I am rethinking it for sure.

    I am not so sure SB's obsession with ageist pricing schemes is so very optimal. I think it is starting to rub a lot of folks the wrong way.

    But I'm just rambling a bit....

    HERE IS THE REAL QUESTION: How would people feel if Vail had bought Sugarbush? Would it be an improvement for YOU?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Orca View Post
    Vail East (Stowe) is going to steal a lot of business with their Epic pass. MAX pass will continue to poach the skiers uncommitted to a single mountain.

    Why would SB sell a full-up pass for $1,779 if, as Win says, very few pay it? Seems like a broken pricing scheme. What else is broken about the current scheme?
    I'd argue that it isn't broken. The higher end price is an incentive to buy a pass earlier and thus give SB additional cash flow prior to the summer. Pretty standard strategy in the industry.

    HERE IS THE REAL QUESTION: How would people feel if Vail had bought Sugarbush? Would it be an improvement for YOU?
    Absolutely not. Having a cheaper pass (Epic) leading to crowds is not something I would be happy about. I like the slower (but steady) incremental progress being made by Win and his team. We don't need a Vail to come in and throw money around. That doesn't fit in the MRV culture.

  6. #36
    Personally, I'm not a big fan of the 20's and 30's passes. I pay full price (early season) for our passes. The cheap all mtn passes have definitely had an impact on skier traffic - which may be good if you are an owner, not so good for me. I can see selling a discounted ticket to college students, but once you graduate - why are they paying less than half what I am paying? 30 years old? Come on - are you still living in your parents basement? On the other side, I have 2 kids that ski for free on my pass. This has been a great deal thus far. This will be the last year for one of them. So next year, my 13 yo will be paying slightly less than a 30 yo. However when I throw the cost of seasonal programs, I'm north of $4500. Don't worry Win, I'm not going anywhere, just something to consider on those 30's passes.

    I am actually thinking it may be worth getting additional passes in the Vail/Stowe deal though. One trip out west and a few days at Stowe and I've fully covered the cost. $1900 bucks and you can ski $!#*load of places - Sugarbush included!

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I have to believe there will be some huge, tremendous and biggly lift lines at Stowe next season.

  7. #37
    I've had the 30s pass at both mountains this year, Stowe and Sugarbush. From what I've seen the crowd levels at Stowe are non-existent midweek (like empty chairs on every lift all day type stuff) and on weekends have never waited in more than a 10 minute line. The lines at say Heavens Gate and Castle Rock fixed grip chairs are much longer at times than I've seen at Stowe, so they have room to grow. Their parking is atrocious though and the traffic but the hill has plenty of room and the lifts that matter move people very well.

    It will be interesting. I do think I'll continue to get a pass at both places as coming from Montpelier I like the flexibility of picking and choosing depending on the situation.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by djd66 View Post
    Personally, I'm not a big fan of the 20's and 30's passes. I pay full price (early season) for our passes. The cheap all mtn passes have definitely had an impact on skier traffic - which may be good if you are an owner, not so good for me. I can see selling a discounted ticket to college students, but once you graduate - why are they paying less than half what I am paying?
    Let me give you my perspective on the 20s and early 30s pass. I was never a pass-holder at any mountain prior to the For 20s pass being announced 5 years ago. I would do mostly day trips up to the Catskills and then a few weekend trips a year (one to Sugarbush, and another one or two to Killington and Gore).

    When the For 20s pass was announced I was turning 30 that December (so I just barely made the cutoff to qualify for it). I figured for $300 it would pay for itself if I made 2 trips up to SB. Then I thought about it a bit more and said "maybe I should think about looking at buying a condo in the area" as that had always been a dream of mine. I came up late that September to look at condos, ended up making an offer and by November owned a condo at Sugarbush. So thanks to that For 20s pass, I then became a long term passholder (which is exactly what the goal was...keep people skiing in their 20s and hook them for when they get older and will/can pay the full adult price). Ever since that first year I was paying the full adult rate (well at least until this year when the early 30s pass was announced and I qualified). People in their early 20s are not likely to pay the full adult price when they have college debt and are just getting started in the work force. The For 20s was designed to address that issue since the younger people are the future of skiing. You don't want those people to stop skiing because they can't afford it as then they may not come back even when they can afford it.

    I am in a sense a perfect example of a success story. Without that pass being offered, who knows if I would have ever ended up buying a condo up here and becoming a long term committed pass holder?

    The early 30s pass I don't particularly think is necessary (even though I benefited from it this year). I think the primary reason SB offered it was due to Stowe offering their new young adult pass that covered people up to the age of 34.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    Let me give you my perspective on the 20s and early 30s pass. I was never a pass-holder at any mountain prior to the For 20s pass being announced 5 years ago. I would do mostly day trips up to the Catskills and then a few weekend trips a year (one to Sugarbush, and another one or two to Killington and Gore).

    When the For 20s pass was announced I was turning 30 that December (so I just barely made the cutoff to qualify for it). I figured for $300 it would pay for itself if I made 2 trips up to SB. Then I thought about it a bit more and said "maybe I should think about looking at buying a condo in the area" as that had always been a dream of mine. I came up late that September to look at condos, ended up making an offer and by November owned a condo at Sugarbush. So thanks to that For 20s pass, I then became a long term passholder (which is exactly what the goal was...keep people skiing in their 20s and hook them for when they get older and will/can pay the full adult price). Ever since that first year I was paying the full adult rate (well at least until this year when the early 30s pass was announced and I qualified). People in their early 20s are not likely to pay the full adult price when they have college debt and are just getting started in the work force. The For 20s was designed to address that issue since the younger people are the future of skiing. You don't want those people to stop skiing because they can't afford it as then they may not come back even when they can afford it.

    I am in a sense a perfect example of a success story. Without that pass being offered, who knows if I would have ever ended up buying a condo up here and becoming a long term committed pass holder?

    The early 30s pass I don't particularly think is necessary (even though I benefited from it this year). I think the primary reason SB offered it was due to Stowe offering their new young adult pass that covered people up to the age of 34.
    I'm in the same boat as you. Started going to SB when I was in my late 20s because of the For20s pass. I chose SB over Killington because SB was more about the skiing, Killington seemed to be more about the access road.

    When I turned 30, I paid for the full adult pass. Then the early 30s pass became a thing. This helped my wife and I make the decision to purchase a Condo on the mountain as well and we are closing one one in May.

    Get people addicted on the cheap drug while they are young and they'll pay full price when they're older. It is VERY WELL DOCUMENTED that the milleniall generation is earning far less than their parents generation and will not achieve the same quality of living.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by brave fellow View Post
    I chose SB over Killington because SB was more about the skiing, Killington seemed to be more about the access road.
    That reminded me of this picture I took at the Reks a couple weeks ago:
    16602841_1758924624132950_9059747926525293356_n.jpg

    Congrats on the upcoming closing of your condo purchase!

  11. #41
    I heard that Sugarbush will be on the Mountain Collective pass next season now that Stowe is leaving to go to the Epic pass.

    Probably a great move...need to get as much exposure as possible.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarbushskier9 View Post
    I heard that Sugarbush will be on the Mountain Collective pass next season now that Stowe is leaving to go to the Epic pass.

    Probably a great move...need to get as much exposure as possible.
    Haha, trying to influence the future aren't you? What about joining the MAX pass? That would be also benefit season pass holders too.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by brave fellow View Post
    Haha, trying to influence the future aren't you? What about joining the MAX pass? That would be also benefit season pass holders too.
    Haha yeah that would work too...just saying, wait for it. Mountain Collective next season.

  14. #44
    Really? $809 unlimited, unrestricted skiing at:
    Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Park City, Heavenly, Northstar, Kirkwood, Wilmot, Afton Alps, Mt. Brighton, Perisher (2017 access) and Arapahoe Basin - Plus 5 days at Whistler Blackcomb with holiday restrictions. And now Stowe too!
    PLUS
    Includes access to 30 European resorts across Austria, France, Italy, and Switzerland!
    PLUS
    Additional Tickets:
    - Six (6) Ski-With-A-Friend (SWAF) varying discount tickets are automatically loaded onto your pass. Just take your guest to the ticket window and present your pass to receive the discount**

    C'mon. Are you guys really going to say that you prefer your $1200-1800 passes at SB? Geez. Unless, of course, you are benefiting from an age-based or corporate-based or college-based or some other of the cost carve outs. Maybe next SB will start pricing passes based on religion, state of residence, political party affiliation, eye color, height, weight, blah, blah, blah.

  15. #45
    Orca, is epic paying for my airfare, lodging, ground transportation, etc at the western resorts? If not, something tells me those will cost a lot more than the extra $300 or so that an SB pass costs vs Epic.


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