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  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    Well the deal is done... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/vail-r...130000462.html



    $50 Million, however the purchase does NOT include Stowe's lodging and much of their real estate holdings. My take is Vail did a deal for Stowe's operations only more as a way to drive higher Epic pass sales and drive more people to their western resorts. The lack of purchasing the real estate and lodging components of Stowe is a bit of a surprise.
    Interesting though that the release says SOME potential real estate implying Vail might be able to build some real estate on there land.

  2. #17

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    In the woods of Mad River Valley
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    I hear there are rumblings of a alternative to the Epic pass in the wind...... Things they are a changing.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Treeskier View Post
    I hear there are rumblings of a alternative to the Epic pass in the wind...... Things they are a changing.
    I am going to guess the max pass.They could use a new eat coast mountain since They will loose Stowe and Whistler. Here is this years offer:
    2 days at AltaSnowbird
    2 days at Aspen Snowmass
    2 days at Jackson Hole
    2 days at Mammoth
    2 days at Revelstoke
    2 days at Ski Banff/Lake Louise/Sunshine
    2 days at Ski Queenstown/Coronet Peak/The Remarkables
    2 days at Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows
    2 days at Stowe
    2 days at Sun Valley
    2 days at Taos
    2 days at Telluride
    2 days at Thredbo
    2 days at Whistler Blackcomb
    You also get 50% off on additional days.

  4. #19
    Benski, isn't that the Mountain Collective pass and not the Max Pass? The Max Pass is the one Killington participates in (and it gives 5 days at all participating resorts plus is available as an add-on to a full pass from those resorts).

  5. #20

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    Benski, isn't that the Mountain Collective pass and not the Max Pass? The Max Pass is the one Killington participates in (and it gives 5 days at all participating resorts plus is available as an add-on to a full pass from those resorts).
    Correct. Whoops.

  6. #21
    DONE DEAL!

    Vail entered into an agreement to buy Stowe today, and will add Stowe to its $809 EPIC PASS next year. Unlimited skiing for $809 and it also gets you access to all their other resorts.

    Suddenly Sugarbush passes are looking really expensive. MAX pass also putting price pressure on SB.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Orca View Post
    DONE DEAL!

    Vail entered into an agreement to buy Stowe today, and will add Stowe to its $809 EPIC PASS next year. Unlimited skiing for $809 and it also gets you access to all their other resorts.

    Suddenly Sugarbush passes are looking really expensive. MAX pass also putting price pressure on SB.
    No way Epic pass with Stowe is that cheep. That's less than half the price of a Stowe pass. And next year there adding whistler too.

  8. #23
    It could be that cheap, although I would expect a slight increase (say maybe in the 825-850 range). Vail can sell epic for cheap since they do such tremendous volume. Good luck with the crowds at Stowe though with the epic pass. Weekends will be insane and not fun to ski.

    As for sugarbush looking expensive, last year the early price for a full adult unlimited pass was only $10 more than K's early price for their full adult pass. And they were even cheaper than some other resorts in southern Vermont.

    Other costs need to be considered too beyond just the pass. For seasonal renters, Stowe may cost them more than the mrv for example.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #24
    Win just sent out an email discussing the purchase. I found this line interesting, "Personally, I like to think that our terrain is the Eastern equivalent of mountains like Alta, Jackson Hole, Aspen Highlands, Telluride and Squaw, where I have skied in recent years." All the mountains mentioned are on the Mountain Collective, which to me is a suggestion Sugarbush is going to replace Stowe in the pass. At the very least Win sees that as logical.

  10. #25
    They could join Mountain Collective, but it wouldn't do anything for me as an SB passholder already. Unless I'm missing something, there's 0 benefit to buying Mountain Collective for an existing passholder unless I intend to go to several of the resorts out west (in which case the benefit would be the same whether I'm an SB passholder or not...wouldn't it?)

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    They could join Mountain Collective, but it wouldn't do anything for me as an SB passholder already. Unless I'm missing something, there's 0 benefit to buying Mountain Collective for an existing passholder unless I intend to go to several of the resorts out west (in which case the benefit would be the same whether I'm an SB passholder or not...wouldn't it?)
    Unless it is free or cheep with a full pass to one of the mountain in the Mountain Collective. I don't know how the Mountain Collective price is structured but Bolton has something similar that is free with there pass. http://www.boltonvalley.com/tickets-...s/Freedom-Pass

  12. #27
    From everything I remember reading on Mountain Collective, there's no discounts for passholders. It is simply everyone that wants Mountain Collective pays the same price ($379 was last year's price) whether you are a passholder at one of the participating resorts or not. If you plan to visit at least 2 of the resorts out west that are on that pass for at least 2 days each, then it definitely is worth it. There simply is no benefit to an SB pass holder to SB joining that pass.

    I'm not saying there wouldn't be a benefit to SB. As once Stowe leaves that pass the people that are buying that pass could definitely take advantage of SB being on it if they are not SB passholders. Realistically it is more of a benefit to non-SB passholders as it would entice them to visit the resort.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Benski View Post
    Win just sent out an email discussing the purchase. I found this line interesting, "Personally, I like to think that our terrain is the Eastern equivalent of mountains like Alta, Jackson Hole, Aspen Highlands, Telluride and Squaw, where I have skied in recent years." All the mountains mentioned are on the Mountain Collective, which to me is a suggestion Sugarbush is going to replace Stowe in the pass. At the very least Win sees that as logical.
    Could have mentioned a couple of others like Deer Valley that has some great terrain off Lady Morgan and in the Empire Bowl. They are all alone and by all reports doing very well next to Vail's Park City and Canyon's. Like them we are going to continue focusing on the quality of the experience here. I think a lot will appreciate that.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by winjr View Post
    Could have mentioned a couple of others like Deer Valley that has some great terrain off Lady Morgan and in the Empire Bowl. They are all alone and by all reports doing very well next to Vail's Park City and Canyon's. Like them we are going to continue focusing on the quality of the experience here. I think a lot will appreciate that.
    Win, I'm a 4 year season pass holder who comes back for none of the reasons you included in your email. I am one of SB's biggest defenders on this forum, but that email had a lot of poor arguments for why SB should be a skier's mountain of choice.

    Comparing SB to ANY west coast mountain, like you did in your email, is comparing apples to tiny oranges. SB will never have the amount of vert and the quality of snow the western mountains have. Not to mention the elevation of the western mountains allows for improved snow totals and more treeless terrain than SB. People who come to SB ski the East because we live and work here. If I could get my job and move mine and my wife's family out to Utah, CO, or WY tomorrow, you bet damn well I would do that.

    For some reason, you use DV as an example of a successful independent mountain to compare SB to. I agree with your statement that DV does very well by itself, but for reasons that completely different from what SB offers. The snow in Utah is known to be some of the highest quality in the world. VT has....ice. Empire is a nice area of DV and I had no problem dropping in off the cornice without any fresh snow since you can still get an edge in. Dropping in with the ice we get in VT? No thank you. You don't see people dropping of Church Rocks after a rain/freeze cycle for a reason.

    DV is also INCREDIBLY expensive...$128 per day! They also limit the amount of tickets they sell each day to keep lift lines down. I don't think I waited more than 5 minutes at DV when I visited. Plus, the people who own property at DV are all tied to Hollywood somehow because of Sundance. The people who ski at DV are casual skiers who want to wear fur on the mountain, take two runs on the bunny hill then go drink martinis in Stein’s Lodge. SB skiers celebrate 4 inches of snow like Christmas, will ski in an ice storm, put up with wind holds at HG and then go to CRP and order a Naragansett in a can. I really don't think it is appropriate to compare SB to DV.

    Unless SB is going to magically produce Utah powder, host a major international film festival, jack up prices to $120+ per day and limit the amount of tickets sold, Stowe on the Epic pass is going to lead to some drop in skier ship at SB. The drop will be in the casual skier who does 2 or 3 ski weekends per year, skiing 5 runs then going to the bar at 1pm. Unfortunately, these people tend to spend the most money at the mountain and generate more revenue than the 25+ day pass holder who drinks the cheap beers and packs a PB&J sandwich to eat on the lift.

    If SB is going to continue to demand 1700 for a season pass, the mountain better be offering something better than 3 roads in (that still filter to ONE road) and the F lot.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by brave fellow View Post
    Comparing SB to ANY west coast mountain, like you did in your email, is comparing apples to tiny oranges. SB will never have the amount of vert and the quality of snow the western mountains have. Not to mention the elevation of the western mountains allows for improved snow totals and more treeless terrain than SB.
    I think you missed Win's point. He said "Eastern equivalent" not "equivalent". There's a big difference. They are simply successful, independent resorts with great terrain. For the east, SB is absolutely the same thing.

    Unless SB is going to magically produce Utah powder, host a major international film festival, jack up prices to $120+ per day and limit the amount of tickets sold, Stowe on the Epic pass is going to lead to some drop in skier ship at SB. The drop will be in the casual skier who does 2 or 3 ski weekends per year, skiing 5 runs then going to the bar at 1pm. Unfortunately, these people tend to spend the most money at the mountain and generate more revenue than the 25+ day pass holder who drinks the cheap beers and packs a PB&J sandwich to eat on the lift.
    I don't see the "casual skier who does 5 runs and heads to the bar" as the typical Sugarbush passholder/skier. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt there will be people that jump ship to Epic, I just don't think it will be the mass exodus that I'm hearing some people predict. I will admit though that I do fall in that "25+ day pass holder" category that tends to not spend much other money at the mountain (sorry Win!). I have a few drinks at Wunderbar here and there. I eat lunch on mountain once in a blue moon. Normally I head over to Sugarbush village though to grab something at Pizza Soul or Mutha Stuffers for lunch.

    For the casual skier, I'd argue those are more the people that buy things like the Quad pack. Are people going to dump the Quad pack in favor of Epic? Hard to say but I don't think a lot of those people would.

    If SB is going to continue to demand 1700 for a season pass, the mountain better be offering something better than 3 roads in (that still filter to ONE road) and the F lot.
    Do a lot of people really pay the full 1700 price? To me the early purchase price is the only one that matters for comparisons with other resorts. $1149 is decently reasonable (or at least in line with quite a few other resorts in VT)

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