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  1. #211
    gostan's Avatar
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    Just look at how the Boston Red Sox spend $$$ to try to compete in the Majors. Anybody want Sandoval & Ramirez & a bunch of overpaid starting pitchers in exchange for 10.000 snow guns? Baseball teams like ski areas need to be built from the bottom up for the long haul.

    i guess i am a homer at heart. You can have the Sunday Rivers of the NE if that is what you prefer. All the snow in Maine would just plain bore me to death. just like the Sox have by finishing last 3 out of the last 4 years.
    Last edited by gostan; 11-28-2015 at 11:09 PM.
    Stan

    "There's No Cure For Life"

  2. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by SurfBoy View Post
    Is that what all the other mountains did that have t2b? Oh I forgot they actually had 20,000 guns going.
    Most of the early season players have base elevations over the bottom of LP and offer vertical of far less with a t2b opening. Sunday River is just over 1,500 ft and they were "t2b" with "some walking required". Lincoln Peak is 2,400'.

    The $$$ dictate the investment strategy. If it were costing SB $ and customers, it might change things, but Win has increased skier visits and revenue every year, so I would say his plan is working pretty well.

    I was pretty happy with today regardless. The snow makers were hard at work on Ripcord and I gave them props accordingly.

    Guns were turned on at the base tonight around 10 PM. Should have some good production.

    Keep at it Mr. Smith. Your game plan has been sustainable, conservative, and has brought SB back from the disaster known as ASC.


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  3. #213

    opening thread 2015

    Oh boy




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    Last edited by wolftracks56; 11-29-2015 at 04:49 AM.

  4. #214

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Groton, MA and Warren, VT
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    124
    There has been steady improvement over the last several years. New lodges, condos, groomers, pipe, guns, lifts, etc. The mountain should be recognized for making these significant investments. The problem (in my opinion) is that the competition started off in a better position, with Sugarbush being in an infrastructure deficit. So while Sugarbush plays catch-up, the competition keeps moving the goal post.

    The new lift is a big improvement, and was sorely needed. This lift will enhance the experience greatly for the typical skier by reducing lines and improving reliability. That said, I hope the resort recognizes that replacing a 60 year old double is nothing to brag about. It is like Sugarbush is replacing a flat tire on a Honda Civic, while the competition is boosting the turbo on their WRX.

  5. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by southvillager View Post
    There has been steady improvement over the last several years. New lodges, condos, groomers, pipe, guns, lifts, etc. The mountain should be recognized for making these significant investments. The problem (in my opinion) is that the competition started off in a better position, with Sugarbush being in an infrastructure deficit. So while Sugarbush plays catch-up, the competition keeps moving the goal post.
    This is a good point. Not only did Sugarbush have a lot of deferred maintenance type of issues, they also had what seems like a significantly smaller snowmaking system than some of their competition to start with. K has had a giant snowmaking system for ages so it certainly isn't fair to try to say why isn't SB keeping up with K. I'm personally happy with the incremental improvements that have been made. If snowmaking upgrades were being completely ignored, then I'd have a concern.

  6. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    This is a good point. Not only did Sugarbush have a lot of deferred maintenance type of issues, they also had what seems like a significantly smaller snowmaking system than some of their competition to start with. K has had a giant snowmaking system for ages so it certainly isn't fair to try to say why isn't SB keeping up with K. I'm personally happy with the incremental improvements that have been made. If snowmaking upgrades were being completely ignored, then I'd have a concern.
    Agreed. And also, sugarbush the resort business is much smaller than kton or Stowe (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). They have a lot more skier visits, and a lot more real estate to put those people in. I don't know what the numbers are but I would think they each have at least double the skier visits. And I wouldn't be surprised if their revenues were triple that of sb's. So while sb has the same terrain to cover, it has less revenue to invest in and operate the system.
    And sure, one can argue, well, invest in a better snowmaking system and you'll increase the skier visits to match those other resorts, resulting in more revenue, but I don't think that would work, and I wouldn't want twice as many skiers anyway, thank you very much.

  7. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    Agreed. And also, sugarbush the resort business is much smaller than kton or Stowe (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). They have a lot more skier visits, and a lot more real estate to put those people in. I don't know what the numbers are but I would think they each have at least double the skier visits. And I wouldn't be surprised if their revenues were triple that of sb's. So while sb has the same terrain to cover, it has less revenue to invest in and operate the system.
    And sure, one can argue, well, invest in a better snowmaking system and you'll increase the skier visits to match those other resorts, resulting in more revenue, but I don't think that would work, and I wouldn't want twice as many skiers anyway, thank you very much.
    Completely agree Howie. For Sugarbush to have the fire power of KT or SR it would require many more people buying more tickets and a major increase in revenue for it to be sustainable. I don't want to see Sugarbush look like either of those places. I'm happy with the sustainable growth we have had. Hopefully things will cool down and we will have some help from Mother Nature.

  8. #218
    The lodging options in the valley are really pretty limited. Especially since it's supposed to support three major ski areas. This probably holds skier visits down. K has a 5 mile long access road with many lodging options not to mention nearby Rutland. Stowe has the access road plus what's in & around the town. More beds for weekend skiers/boarders to stay in nearby. Sugarbush has nothing compared to these other areas.
    Last edited by steamboat1; 11-29-2015 at 06:08 PM.

  9. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post
    The lodging options in the valley are really pretty limited. Especially since it's supposed to support three major ski areas. This probably holds skier visits down. K has a 5 mile long access road with many lodging options not to mention nearby Rutland. Stowe has the access road plus what's in & around the town. More beds for weekend skiers/boarders to stay in nearby. Sugarbush has nothing compared to these other areas.
    And that up to entrepreneurs to fix not the resort. It seems apparent to me Win and co don't know much about restaurants. Timbers has not really gone anywhere. I think they should stop operating timbers and lease it to a separate owner.

  10. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post
    The lodging options in the valley are really pretty limited. Especially since it's supposed to support three major ski areas. This probably holds skier visits down. K has a 5 mile long access road with many lodging options not to mention nearby Rutland. Stowe has the access road plus what's in & around the town. More beds for weekend skiers/boarders to stay in nearby. Sugarbush has nothing compared to these other areas.
    Lodging story as shared with me years ago - and also the secret off the valley ( besides the lake effect extra snow, better trees, and the fact that those resorts don't have a Castlerock, a MRG, or a good vibe - for lack of a better description) is the 6 K beds in the valley compared with 20K-30K beds in the other two.

    no thanks - skied K-Mart Sat - nice! Had fun! Spent years there! Glad I'm here with that as an option. ( Or Stowe or Jay)

    As many have repeated on this board - once the 2' drop we all forget about snow-making.

    If people want crowds and more great snow-making they have choices. if they want to take a chance - like us pass-holders do every year on the chance we'll get good natural snow - which happens at least 4 of every 5 years if not more - they can.

    Otherwise let's not beat a dead horse. The rest can buy a ticket here when great or go elsewhere - whats left of the free market is here in Vermont.

    No one is forced to stay here, live here, or buy a pass or ticket here. Fair to compare, but not apples to apples. It's more like a Porsche and a loaded Ford Explorer - you can enjoy both, even the Porsche in a slow drive in the city, or the Explorer when it's loaded with kids and gear, but when the road is dry and curvy, oooh boy - what's a Ford?

  11. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by jwt View Post
    Lodging story as shared with me years ago - and also the secret off the valley ( besides the lake effect extra snow, better trees, and the fact that those resorts don't have a Castlerock, a MRG, or a good vibe - for lack of a better description) is the 6 K beds in the valley compared with 20K-30K beds in the other two.

    no thanks - skied K-Mart Sat - nice! Had fun! Spent years there! Glad I'm here with that as an option. ( Or Stowe or Jay)

    As many have repeated on this board - once the 2' drop we all forget about snow-making.

    If people want crowds and more great snow-making they have choices. if they want to take a chance - like us pass-holders do every year on the chance we'll get good natural snow - which happens at least 4 of every 5 years if not more - they can.

    Otherwise let's not beat a dead horse. The rest can buy a ticket here when great or go elsewhere - whats left of the free market is here in Vermont.

    No one is forced to stay here, live here, or buy a pass or ticket here. Fair to compare, but not apples to apples. It's more like a Porsche and a loaded Ford Explorer - you can enjoy both, even the Porsche in a slow drive in the city, or the Explorer when it's loaded with kids and gear, but when the road is dry and curvy, oooh boy - what's a Ford?
    Agreed with all of this. I'll take the MRV the way it is now along with our current snowmaking capabilities any day over K or Stowe. The vibe of the MRV is certainly special and I never got that in either K or Stowe when I visited them in the past.

  12. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Benski View Post
    And that up to entrepreneurs to fix not the resort.
    Never said it was up to the resort to fix. Never said it was a problem either. Just offered it as a reason Sugarbush doesn't see the same skier visits as the others. I'm sure Win would like to see additional lodging offered in the area to increase skier visits. Gotta fill all the additional parking added this year.

  13. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post
    Never said it was up to the resort to fix. Never said it was a problem either. Just offered it as a reason Sugarbush doesn't see the same skier visits as the others. I'm sure Win would like to see additional lodging offered in the area to increase skier visits. Gotta fill all the additional parking added this year.
    I'm not so sure the "if you build it they will come" model fits the MRV. Other than holiday periods there's usually open lodging available somewhere in the valley many weekends from my own past experience. Before I owned a place I never had trouble finding something when I wanted to. I think some people stay away because they think it is "out of the way". Then you also have some people that simply want to party and the MRV isn't for that crowd either (and I'm perfectly fine with keeping it that way! )

  14. #224
    Hawk's Avatar
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    So I skied 3 days this weekend and this is my opinion. The quality of the snow was fine for opening weekend. Actually best I have seen so the new guns seem to be an improvement. There were no huge icy whales like past years and coverage was good with no huge areas of icy mess. The temps warmed up on Friday so it was spring skiing. Great day on Friday best so far. That is the good.
    Now for the bad. As far as how fast it takes them to cover trails and how many guns they can run...it is not that big an increase from the last few years. I guess slow and steady is what we will have for the foreseeable future based on all the posts here. They also did not double back and refesh the trails we were skiing on this weekend. Instead they chose to blow Ripchord and tried to blow some mud on the lower elevations even though the temps seemed marginal. This is the most disappointing thing I find with sugarbush. Everybody that thinks that this is OK frustrates me. It could be so much better but that doesn't matter.

    I will leave you with a quote from the head snowmaker at my prior ski area. " The most important thing at a ski area is the product, Snow! Put down a good product all the time and the people will remember. IF you don't they will remember that sand go somewhere else."
    Next weekend I will be skiing where the conditions are best because I can.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  15. #225

    opening thread 2015

    Good luck


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    Last edited by wolftracks56; 11-30-2015 at 04:24 AM.

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