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  1. #196
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    I guess I'm kind of surprised that the early season route T2B hasn't been entirely covered by towers. That's probably not possible on many of the narrower areas of Jester, but I'd think it should be a no brainer for everywhere below the S turns above Allyn's Lodge down to the base. the efficiency point is spot on - with snowmaking windows in the early season shorter by definition, it seems silly to have to waste a shift of labor on moving the equipment from place to place. That's less of a concern for some of the secondary/tertiary snowmaking priorities like Lower OG, Racer's Edge or Sleeper Chute, but should be top of the list for the first 2-3 T2B runs that are always in the plan (Jester>Downspout>Gondolier; VH Traverse>Snowball>Spring Fling; Pushover) early on.



    Ultimately, I'm sure SB is moving the needle in terms of not just cost and efficiency, but also absolute production. The thing is, I'd argue they are improving only at the same rate their competitors are, so it's just helping them maintain their position - there's been no step change relative to that competition. I'm sure that connecting the two systems would do that, but that's a pretty big check to cut and I believe Win has said it's not happening. If fan guns aren't the answer at SB (strange that they are the solution everywhere to the north and south), then I wonder what the major bottlenecks now are. Is it just water pipe diameter? Additional pumps?

  2. #197
    I'm guessing that added pipe diameter would allow them to push more water which means they could add an extra pump.

  3. #198
    The pipe from the pond is 16 inch diameter but as you get up the hill is varies. When we are on Snowball/Spring Fling we can get close to 4,000 gpm. On upper mountain the pipe is not as wide and we get 2500 gpm. That is where a large pipe would make the difference. With low energy equipment air is no longer the constraint.
    Linking the two mountains is conceptually possible but practically not for permitting as well as other reasons.
    Fans guns are great but not on most of our terrain and you still have the same total gpm capacity. Fewer fans making more snow per gun but same total gpm.
    Last edited by winjr; 11-26-2015 at 06:52 AM.

  4. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by winjr View Post
    The pipe from the pond is 16 inch diameter but as you get up the hill is varies. When we are on Snowball/Spring Fling we can get close to 4,000 gpm. On upper mountain the pipe is not as wide and we get 2500 gpm. That is where a large pipe would make the difference. With low energy equipment air is no longer the constraint.
    Linking the two mountains is conceptually possible but practically not for permitting as well as other reasons.
    Fans guns are great but not on most of our terrain and you still have the same total gpm capacity. Fewer fans making more snow per gun but same total gpm.
    Ok. Now I understand. So if the pipe width limitation means you can only blow 2500 gpm on the upper mtn., and the temps aren't sufficient to put the other 1500gpm to use elsewhere, then you're losing a good portion of your capacity. So some fatter pipes would surely help.

  5. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman View Post
    I guess I'm kind of surprised that the early season route T2B hasn't been entirely covered by towers. That's probably not possible on many of the narrower areas of Jester, but I'd think it should be a no brainer for everywhere below the S turns above Allyn's Lodge down to the base. the efficiency point is spot on - with snowmaking windows in the early season shorter by definition, it seems silly to have to waste a shift of labor on moving the equipment from place to place. That's less of a concern for some of the secondary/tertiary snowmaking priorities like Lower OG, Racer's Edge or Sleeper Chute, but should be top of the list for the first 2-3 T2B runs that are always in the plan (Jester>Downspout>Gondolier; VH Traverse>Snowball>Spring Fling; Pushover) early on.

    Ultimately, I'm sure SB is moving the needle in terms of not just cost and efficiency, but also absolute production. The thing is, I'd argue they are improving only at the same rate their competitors are, so it's just helping them maintain their position - there's been no step change relative to that competition. I'm sure that connecting the two systems would do that, but that's a pretty big check to cut and I believe Win has said it's not happening. If fan guns aren't the answer at SB (strange that they are the solution everywhere to the north and south), then I wonder what the major bottlenecks now are. Is it just water pipe diameter? Additional pumps?
    I believe on lower downspout most of the guns need to be ground guns to avoid spraying trees. In the past they were ably to set up ground guns on a trail a day or two before making snow on a snow trail. I am not sure why they are not doing that now. Probably don't have enough low e gun ground guns and don't want to use the old ones.

  6. #201
    Ground guns required on Lower Downspout due to the power lines which run from Heaven's Gate down to the Castlerock Cutoff. Below there, there are 3 towers before reaching top of Gondolier. The rest is all ground gear. Trail is pretty narrow in most places from Castlerock down to Gondo so towers wouldn't work. The new low e ground guns are $5k/piece. You just can't transport them like you could the old air hogs. Snowmaking was shut down yesterday anyway due to temps and to get the hill ready for opening day, allowing the day crew to move/reposition gear for the next push. We'll be back at it Friday night.

    Happy Thanksgiving!!!

  7. #202

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    not on the mtn at the moment
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    217

    Opening Day conditions?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadyjay View Post
    Ground guns required on Lower Downspout due to the power lines which run from Heaven's Gate down to the Castlerock Cutoff. Below there, there are 3 towers before reaching top of Gondolier. The rest is all ground gear. Trail is pretty narrow in most places from Castlerock down to Gondo so towers wouldn't work. The new low e ground guns are $5k/piece. You just can't transport them like you could the old air hogs. Snowmaking was shut down yesterday anyway due to temps and to get the hill ready for opening day, allowing the day crew to move/reposition gear for the next push. We'll be back at it Friday night.

    Happy Thanksgiving!!!
    Can anyone who was actually on-hill give us lurkers a report on how it skied please?

  8. #203
    I am probably biased, but I was pleased with how it skied yesterday. There is very good depth on Upper Jester, Downspout and Upper Organgrinder. As you know from prior posts we prefer to make a depth of around 3" before moving off a trail. Some other mountains take a different approach to get more terrain open. But the depth we have allows for grooming and will also survive the next warm-up. Yesterday Jester and Downspout were groomed. Grinder was not and I thought the upper part skied really well. Down lower because the temps were not as good as higher, there were some ice balls and some funky snow, but that part was groomed out last night and the warm air will soften it up further. Unfortunately, the wind is very strong and swirling and I suspect the wind won't let up until tomorrow am. Bravo and Heave's Gate are on windhold as of 10:30am and probably will remain that way today.

    If we do not have temps for snowmaking down lower, we will resume snowmaking on Ripcord at LP. It looks like we will have some windows over the next few days down low starting on Sunday, and we are set up to take advantage of them to get to the bottom before next weekend

  9. #204

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    not on the mtn at the moment
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    217
    Thanks Mr Smith. We all have some bias , believe it or not, and that report is as good as any. Thx. Can't do anything about the wind - nature isn't going to ever be controlled and it allows us to appreciate conditions when they are good.

    Just read a piece in Powder Magazine on how bad snow-making is for the environment? I couldn't finish the piece. Try living without it. When the pendulum swings, it does swing too far. . .

  10. #205
    The anti-jink worked. Just after I posted the wind died down and changed direction just enough to let us open around 11am, and it was great spring skiing in November. Organgrinder was terrific and what made it better today was skiing with my two grandsons. Temps are coming down slowly tonight so tomorrow will be different. Good news is it is not coming down fast so early skiers should keep the trails loose for the later arrivals. Human grooming is sometimes the best and I plan on bring
    there at 9am. Will likely turn snowmaking on Ripcord sometime Saturday morning,

    I have not read the article about the snowmaking environmental concerns but I believe this has been addressed with us. We can only withdraw from the Mad River Valley when the flow is at a specified level and remember that any water we borrow from the river gets returned. We have also done extensive work to mitigate the impact of storm water and received the Governor's environmental excellence award for getting Rice Brook off the impaired stream list. I think this article is more focused on the West who is a late comer to snowmaking. We are way ahead of the West in Vermont.

  11. #206
    Spring skiing yesterday. Winter today after some rain showers last night. We groomed our Jester and Downspout, but they are firm. Organgrinder was too soft to get a winch on last night, so as my grandson told me "it is skiable but not all that fun". We will winch it tonight, so tomorrow should be "fun". Ripcord is where we are making snow today. Looking at the forecast there are a couple of small windows down low, so we will take every advantage to get to the bottom. We are set up to go. I don't like the forecast for Tuesday and Wednesday where it may be too warm for any snowmaking again. Hopefully, after that it will stay cooler so we can at least have Ripcord and the trails to the bottom added.

  12. #207
    Heck, every eastern resort is facing the same weather issues.
    This forum is the same hackneyed crap year after year.

    Invest in your air and water infrastructure.
    Year after year it's buildings and other 'stuff'.

    That ain't satisfying your local supporters.
    That is clearly evident reading these posts.

    Hope you get it figured out!
    OK ... but No Fat Trackin'

  13. #208
    +1, need to spend the money to open with t2b if you want to compete in the majors!

  14. #209
    Yeah, come on Win - you need to build your own nuclear power plant so you can blow snow when its 65 out. Why don't you have 10,000 guns going top to bottom? There are 50 skiers that have been have paid for a seasons pass that want to ski.

  15. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by djd66 View Post
    Yeah, come on Win - you need to build your own nuclear power plant so you can blow snow when its 65 out. Why don't you have 10,000 guns going top to bottom? There are 50 skiers that have been have paid for a seasons pass that want to ski.
    Is that what all the other mountains did that have t2b? Oh I forgot they actually had 20,000 guns going.

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