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Thread: Heart of winter

  1. #16
    I have not been up since January but this year the bumps did not form well. If they are still auquard starting would be nice.

  2. #17

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    Bumps aside, when i noticed that CR was being groomed I had mixed feelings. On one hand it's nice to keep it to the expert skiers but we all know people go up there that shouldn't anyway. On the other hand it is nice to let people who normally wouldn't go to CR experience the terrain. I know when people come up to visit that do not have the ability to go to CR it makes it hard to break off from them because it's a time commitment to ski CR and you are usually leaving them for a couple of hrs. So when its groomed everyone in the group can go there together take different trails but still meet at the chair lift. In balance, I think it's a good thing to groom on occasion.

  3. #18
    I like when cr gets groomed once or twice a season. Feel the bumps get refreshed, better and softer.

  4. #19
    Hawk's Avatar
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    This is what happens to bumps when you groom them. The groomer mows them flat and in the process of rolling over the snow with a 15 ton vehicle, the snow compacts. Then skiers and boarders ski the run, some expert, some not so expert. Since the snow is now compacted and not unconsolidated the bumps start to form much further apart and irregular. This makes the new bumps ski like crap. You see bumps need to form with natural un-compacted snow and expert skiers that make short radius turns. That is what makes good bump lines. The grooming will make the trail probably last longer but it certainly does not make better bumps. Also those icey bumps that used to be there collect snow better than a flat trail. The snow blows off a flat trail. Look at MRG. They never groom and all their bumps stay tight and well spaced. I used to ski Freestyle back in the day. Bumps are certainly kind of my thing.
    Last edited by Hawk; 02-17-2015 at 09:08 AM.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
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  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Look at MRG. They never groom and all their bumps stay tight and well spaced. I used to ski Freestyle back in the day. Bumps are certainly kind of my thing.
    I would agree with you on MRG,.. The big difference is the lack of snowboards at MRG - that's what keeps the bumps well spaced and formed perfectly. I say once the bumps become oddly shaped and irregular, I have no prob running a groomer over them.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by djd66 View Post
    I would agree with you on MRG,.. The big difference is the lack of snowboards at MRG - that's what keeps the bumps well spaced and formed perfectly. I say once the bumps become oddly shaped and irregular, I have no prob running a groomer over them.
    I agree that the boarders do affect the bump spacing. Good point. I will add this. If they groom ahead of a big storm (like 2 feet) that would work because the new unconsolidated snow will form good bumps. It's just when they groom with no new snow in the forecast that makes things worse.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  7. #22
    Non-expert skier's perspective...I checked the trail report and noticed that Castlerock Run was groomed a couple Saturday's ago. I never ski Castlerock, as I'm not a good enough skier to handle it. Trying to bleed off speed while traversing across a bump trail, crashing through those lovely moguls, trying to figure out now to get turned downhill again with one or both skis stuck uphill into a bump while incurring the pity, or wrath, or both, of the better skiers above and across from me, is not how I choose to amortize my season pass! So, I was excited to see that Castlerock Run was groomed. I recall skiing it groomed a few seasons ago, fairly late in the season. We turned the corner by the warming shed and a bluebird chirped in the trees to our left. Nice! The trail was lovely. We exited at Bailout and didn't bother it again. Fond memories!

    I'm a better skier now than I was then, but not up to the Castlerock test, unless it's groomed. My buddy and I took the lift up. Man, that's a long lift when it's +2 and the wind is in your face! No one was on Liftline, which I didn't take as a good sign. We skied by the overflowing warming hut (no bluebird, another bad sign) and headed down. Lovely turns! Almost looked as though I belonged. Until, after a nice several turns--a 100 yard mogul field! What! I would have pulled out my iPhone and checked for a way out (and doublechecked the trail report--perhaps I'd missed a footnote- "groomed [sort of, if you need to know more, stay on Gatehouse or Valley House...]", but there was no assurance that the trail to my left was at all a better option (especially as it wasn't reported as "groomed"), so I waited for the traffic (all of it) to clear, and gently worked my way down the moguls (nicely spaced, I'm sure, but hardly relevant). My buddy, a better skier than I, did quite well. I managed to stay upright and not knock down too many bumps, but it wasn't artistic. Another lovely groomed portion, then the small print in the trail report again surfaced--another mogul field. I survived (happy that my wife was away on business for the weekend, as she might not have been as forgiving as my buddy had I taken her on this venture!). We met at the bottom of that field, intact, and looked for a way out. I saw something straight downhill that looked like a bridge, but hard to tell with all the trees and bumps. Was that possibly "Bailout"? At this point, I didn't care much and headed to what I prayed was an exit. Thankfully, my friend, having left less behind on the trail, cut me off and pointed to the right, where several apparently good skiers waiting at the top of Bailout inquired whether we'd seen their children (perhaps they'd seen my efforts and given up the sport?). I attempted to answer, but was unfortunately distracted by the condition of the trail known as "Bailout". It wasn't overly steep, but I suppose I wasn't expecting the misnamed "Bailout" to show 100 yards of moguls, together with exposed rock (the first two outcroppings located exactly where I had to take my first two turns, on newly-tuned skis!). I waited for the couple to ski ahead, offering to keep an eye out for their children, but allowing me to suffer "Bailout" without an audience. No luck, off I went. Left footed turn, scratch, right footed turn, scratch, then 90 remaining yards of ill-spaced moguls (too many skiers like me wrecking them in their escape attempt?), and finally, lower Ripcord.

    All this is to say that I got what I deserved. Obviously, the soul of Castlerock object to "grooming," shooing away the groomers before they can finish their good work. There's plenty of great stuff elsewhere on the mountain for me, and skiers like me. If the goal is to provide skiers that can't otherwise handle Castlerock a small taste of Castlerock, that's again exactly what I got. I've walked battlefields and tried to imagine that space with the guns firing and men falling. It's impossible, of course. There's no need for skiers who aren't expert in moguls ever to try Castlerock. Even a small dollop of bumps, as I experienced, reduces "skiing" to something unrecognizable. Completely groomed, while lovely (especially with the bluebirds!), Castlerock simply isn't Castlerock. So, don't "groom" it for my benefit! When I want to pretend to be a better skier than I am, I'll take wide turns down (truly and completely) groomed Ripcord or Organgrinder!

  8. #23
    Some times you just have to hit the reset button. I've sadly been away for a bit an unable to make it up (this weekend back up though) so I can't give my opinion on if I personally thought it was needed (what does my opinion matter though), but there are times when it definitely is needed. Middle Earth as well can need it (barring Jaws of course). Sometimes the bumps get too deep and too icy and need a knock down. Or there are too many perpendicular to the fall line like Wile E Coyote running into a brick wall.

    As Hawk said it would be great if it could be done before a big storm, but when it's necessary and mother nature is not cooperating then go for it. I'm not too worried of it drawing in more people that might not otherwise ski it. I think the volumes would be negligible over the crowd that normally skis it. And if they do come it's not making that much of an impact. Everyone skis groomed and flat terrain differently than they would a bumped up line so a few wider arcing turns in the mix won't change much.

    As for who belongs on Castlerock, I guess it's anyone that bought a lift ticket. Now whether they're going to have fun or not is a different story. The danger sign for CR that will one day likely be admitted into the Smithsonian as an icon of northeast skiing pretty much warns all, though maybe it should be moved to the start of the line. Some people may wait a while and finally see it as they are about to load and figured they'll do it anyways since they stood in line so long. Those people are not destined for a good day. However if someone wants to challenge themselves and they have been forewarned then go for it. Does it mean I like coming around a corner on Rumble and having to jib off someone's goggles? Not really. I mean I may gripe for a second that I had to alter/pause my line, but then about 100 feet later I've forgotten about it and I'm moving on. You can find people standing in bump lines on any lift pod on the mountain.

    Fourwide - If it makes you feel more comfortable to wait to solo a line then by all means, but if you don't you might get some enjoyment watching someone who's looking pretty good and then about 30 feet into the line completely double ejects. Everyone struggles with icy irregular bumps at some point.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I agree that the boarders do affect the bump spacing. Good point. I will add this. If they groom ahead of a big storm (like 2 feet) that would work because the new unconsolidated snow will form good bumps. It's just when they groom with no new snow in the forecast that makes things worse.
    I think they always do it before an expected snowfall, no? Last week they did it before the snowfall on Thursday.

  10. #25
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    No not always and if it is only going to snow 6"-8", that is not nearly enough. You need a 2' storm.
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    I think they always do it before an expected snowfall, no? Last week they did it before the snowfall on Thursday.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  11. #26
    My understanding is that they groom it once or twice a year for snow preservation.....compact the snow down so it lasts longer into spring. Maybe I am wrong on this. What they should be doing now is pushing a lot of snow on the runout since that is always the first thing to go.

  12. #27
    Fourwide: there was indeed a top to bottom groomed route on CR the Saturday you are referring to (the groomer has to drive on the snow, so it isn't really possible to not have a path the groomer followed). This was all listed on the trail report too (Castlerock run, Hi/Lo Road, and Troll Road were all listed as groomed). To avoid the first mogul section on CR that you hit, you could have taken a quick left right above the ungroomed section onto Hi road. That would take you over towards Lift Line. When you hit Lift Line, make a quick right (you're now on the Lo Road portion of Hi & Lo Road). This will take you back over to CR right under that mogul section that wasn't groomed. To avoid the bumps above the Bailout trail, the trick would have been to go left at the intersection of CR/Troll Road/Lower Castelrock Run. From that point follow Troll Road as it crosses back and forth across Lift Line. Eventually it will dump you out by the CR lift and you can just stay left to go to the CR runout and get back to the base area.

    As for grooming trails in general at CR, I think my opinion would depend on the condition of the trail prior to being groomed. If the bumps are rock solid and there's a chance of an upcoming storm that will dump a lot of snow and allow it to bump back up nicely, then I think it is ok in that situation once in a while. Also perhaps not a terrible idea before a holiday weekend when a lot of people not familiar with the terrain might visit and find themselves somehow having missed all the warning signs and up on CR with no easy way down.

  13. #28
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    I guess I am not an inclusive person when it comes to CR. Anything that increases that line down there is bad to me. It's long enough. By the way they also groomed lower rumble and middle earth. The last 2 sections were flat last weekend. so there are lots of ways you can get down once you get there via Toll road.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  14. #29
    Thanks, cd. I'll pay more attention next time! I take your point that the groomer wouldn't turn itself off just to make my visit more challenging!

  15. #30
    It's been snowing all day. anyone know how much has accumulated since this mornings report of 3"?????



    fwiw-I expect you all to be doing your preferred snow dances, voodoo, santeria, etc. for wednesday.

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