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Thread: New VH lift

  1. #76
    I have heard that the VH replacement is to be a fixed-grip quad. Is there any thought that the length of the lift is at the outer limit of today's design guidelines for length in sojourn time? The new lift would be about 3700 feet in length, which at a 400 foot/sec conventional fixed-grip rope speed would result in a sojourn time of about 9 minutes 15 seconds. This compares to Super Bravo with a length of 5650 feet with a sojourn time of less than 6 minutes. My concerns are that (1) 9+ minutes is very much on the long side by today's standards (especially on cold days) and (2) that people will really notice the difference between Super Bravo at 6 minutes and not consider the new VH as an attractive alternative to Super Bravo (much as happens now). Since new ski lifts are for forever (never mind diamonds), does it make sense that this new lift should be a detachable that runs a more desirable rope speed?
    Last edited by Orca; 01-11-2015 at 09:25 AM.

  2. #77
    According to the sugarbush app the valley house is 7.3 minuets vs. 6.3 on the bravo. I doubt the new lift will have a longer ride time. They should make it faster than most fixed grips since those who can't handle it can go to the bravo.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Benski View Post
    According to the sugarbush app the valley house is 7.3 minuets vs. 6.3 on the bravo. I doubt the new lift will have a longer ride time. They should make it faster than most fixed grips since those who can't handle it can go to the bravo.
    Do me a favor and actually time VH (I am not there today). I think there is very little chance 7.3 minutes is an accurate number. More like 9. Math doesn't lie.

    Also, they can't make the new VH a much faster fixed-grip than normal else it is a hazard to load (unless a loading carpet is installed) . This is a lift from the bottom that services Snowball and Spring Fling, so the lift must be compatible with novices.
    Last edited by Orca; 01-11-2015 at 10:15 AM.

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orca View Post
    I have heard that the VH replacement is to be a fixed-grip quad. Is there any thought that the length of the lift is at the outer limit of today's design guidelines for length in sojourn time? The new lift would be about 3700 feet in length, which at a 400 foot/sec conventional fixed-grip rope speed would result in a sojourn time of about 9 minutes 15 seconds. This compares to Super Bravo with a length of 5650 feet with a sojourn time of less than 6 minutes. My concerns are that (1) 9+ minutes is very much on the long side by today's standards (especially on cold days) and (2) that people will really notice the difference between Super Bravo at 6 minutes and not consider the new VH as an attractive alternative to Super Bravo (much as happens now). Since new ski lifts are for forever (never mind diamonds), does it make sense that this new lift should be a detachable that runs a more desirable rope speed?
    In a previous discussion it was mentioned that the new VH quad would shorten the ride by quite a lot. Newer fixed grips are faster, aren't they?

    I don't mind the ride on the existing double, it doesn't feel long to me. And I don't get as cold on it, maybe since it is slow and low there is less wind chill. I always consider the trade-off, would I rather sit on the longer ride on the double or stand in a longer line for Bravo. I usually choose to sit. If you are headed to Snowball or Steins and choose Bravo, you must add the time of the journey across the traverse, and then deal with the "icy funnel of death" at the end of the traverse. Sorry, my mistake, it is the "packed powder fun zone".

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orca View Post
    Also, they can't make the new VH a much faster fixed-grip than normal else it is a hazard to load (unless a loading carpet is installed) . This is a lift from the bottom that services Snowball and Spring Fling, so the lift must be compatible with novices.
    Yes and no. That part of the mountain has no greens. Snowball,Spring Fling, and Racers edge are blues. Gatehouse or Village double are currently the options for greens. So a new quad could load at a speed like Heavens Gate.

  6. #81

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    I like the idea of the 'slower' fixed grip vs. high-speed detachable. I prefer the least number of skiers descending the same runs I'm looking to enjoy...with the most elbow room possible. It's purer, and it's safer.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by pinnoke View Post
    I like the idea of the 'slower' fixed grip vs. high-speed detachable. I prefer the least number of skiers descending the same runs I'm looking to enjoy...with the most elbow room possible.
    a fixed grip quad has the same capacity as an high speed quad. I don't think there is enough room for a detachable grip.

  8. #83
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    The current VH double runs at quite a bit slower rate than the current state of the art for a fixed grip lift. Win has previously stated that ride time would be cut with the new lift by something like 30% (?). Wouldn't be surprised if it's running at 350-400 fpm whereas the new lift will be 450-500 fpm.


  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Orca View Post
    I have heard that the VH replacement is to be a fixed-grip quad. Is there any thought that the length of the lift is at the outer limit of today's design guidelines for length in sojourn time? The new lift would be about 3700 feet in length, which at a 400 foot/sec conventional fixed-grip rope speed would result in a sojourn time of about 9 minutes 15 seconds. This compares to Super Bravo with a length of 5650 feet with a sojourn time of less than 6 minutes. My concerns are that (1) 9+ minutes is very much on the long side by today's standards (especially on cold days) and (2) that people will really notice the difference between Super Bravo at 6 minutes and not consider the new VH as an attractive alternative to Super Bravo (much as happens now). Since new ski lifts are for forever (never mind diamonds), does it make sense that this new lift should be a detachable that runs a more desirable rope speed?
    I see what you're saying, but my understanding is that the new lift will be more than twice as fast as the existing one.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    I see what you're saying, but my understanding is that the new lift will be more than twice as fast as the existing one.
    No. The rope speed cannot be twice as fast. The limit is not the motor, but rather the speed of the chair at loading. For reference, detachable chairs run at up to 5 meters per second. Fixed grips run at up to 2.8 meters per second with a loading carpet and more like 2 meters per second without.

    Benski is correct that fixed-grip and detachable quads have approximately the same uphill capacity. The capacity is not determined by the rope speed, but rather the loading frequency (period between chairs). Both fixed and detachable chairs with minimum chair spacing have a chair loading interval of about 6 seconds, which is why they have the same uphill capacity.
    Last edited by Orca; 01-11-2015 at 10:49 PM.

  11. #86
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    Not entirely true. You could take reverse traverse to lower jester and that would be an entirely Green run. Not the best way to go but it is green.

    Quote Originally Posted by southvillager View Post
    Yes and no. That part of the mountain has no greens. Snowball,Spring Fling, and Racers edge are blues. Gatehouse or Village double are currently the options for greens. So a new quad could load at a speed like Heavens Gate.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
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  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Not entirely true. You could take reverse traverse to lower jester and that would be an entirely Green run. Not the best way to go but it is green.
    Lower jester is blue.


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  13. #88
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    Tin is right. If you look around the industry and based on the attached link, fixed grip quads run anywhere around 450 to 550 FPM. I found a couple of places that state the length of the current Valley House is 4953 ft. So if you add an additional 200 ft +/- for the new lift length that is 5153 divided by 550 FPM you get about 9min and 22 sec of ride time if my math is right. I would bet the new lift will not be all that much faster in duration than the old one because of the added length. Either way I like the fixed grip because it does not get affected by wind and Icing as much as High speed quads.

    http://www.skilifts.org/old/vt-sugarbush.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman View Post
    The current VH double runs at quite a bit slower rate than the current state of the art for a fixed grip lift. Win has previously stated that ride time would be cut with the new lift by something like 30% (?). Wouldn't be surprised if it's running at 350-400 fpm whereas the new lift will be 450-500 fpm.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Tin is right. If you look around the industry and based on the attached link, fixed grip quads run anywhere around 450 to 550 FPM. I found a couple of places that state the length of the current Valley House is 4953 ft. So if you add an additional 200 ft +/- for the new lift length that is 5153 divided by 550 FPM you get about 9min and 22 sec of ride time if my math is right. I would bet the new lift will not be all that much faster in duration than the old one because of the added length. Either way I like the fixed grip because it does not get affected by wind and Icing as much as High speed quads.

    http://www.skilifts.org/old/vt-sugarbush.html
    the terminus will be below where it is now, so maybe its not quite an additional 200'.

    I think the speed for advanced skiers is 400-450fpm.

  15. #90
    I would be much happier with a HSQ,... If it will not change the uphill capacity (which is the reason i thought they would not put one in) it would be a huge Sugarbush Improvement. I dont think wind is much of a factor for that POD - especially if they are bringing the terminus lower.

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