Spring Triple

[HowieT2]

Wow, what bitchfest. I've been out in bc. Pretty happy with the outcome. Let's hope we can get some luck this week, score some goods, get some terrain open and stop whining. Embarrassing.

[gostan]

Wow, what bitchfest. I've been out in bc. Pretty happy with the outcome. Let's hope we can get some luck this week, score some goods, get some terrain open and stop whining. Embarrassing.

Howie, I completely agree. I would be more vocal about it, but due to my "no yet start of the season" it is not something I feel comfortable jumping in on.

Where in BC did you go.

[gostan]

I think if you parse through all the ranting you will find that the infrastructure they are refering to is snowmaking system and the lifts. No one is questioning the upgrades to the base area. I love the new base area. But if you subtract the gate house, farm house and School house with all the landscaping and walkways, how much was spent on the lifts and snow making? The only upgrades to those two items have been those new guns, a couple groomers and minor maintenence to the lifts?

Hawk, Win seems to be saying $50M invested since Summit Ventures purchased the mountain (that is a lot of years) "and that does not include any real estate", so I take that to mean that this number does not include Claybrook, Gatehouse, Farmhouse and Schoolhouse.

[HowieT2]

Howie, I completely agree. I would be more vocal about it, but due to my "no yet start of the season" it is not something I feel comfortable jumping in on.

Where in BC did you go.

Skied a couple days at whitewater. Great mtn but it hadn't snowed in 2 weeks and conditions were challenging (u should have heard the locals complaining). Then we lucked out, got snow and 3 days of insane cat skiing out of Ymir.

[Benski]

I think if you parse through all the ranting you will find that the infrastructure they are refering to is snowmaking system and the lifts. No one is questioning the upgrades to the base area. I love the new base area. But if you subtract the gate house, farm house and School house with all the landscaping and walkways, how much was spent on the lifts and snow making? The only upgrades to those two items have been those new guns, a couple groomers and minor maintenence to the lifts?

They also installed the gmx.

[gostan]

I am sure that there are others here who have more facts, but Summit purchased in 2001. My recollection is that there was a huge amount of deferred maintenance that was just not undertaken by ASC. The dollars add up quickly.

[MntMan4Bush]

Excellent. So people who are waiting in long lines, further bloated by lift closures and poor snow making, which in turn forces more bodies into the same queues, should just sit back and enjoy it all.

Easy to dismiss things by calling it embarrassing or people whiners. That's a good solution. Really solves the problem. I feel better already. (Passive aggressive responses are my favorite. I think they're the funniest.)

[HowieT2]

Excellent. So people who are waiting in long lines, further bloated by lift closures and poor snow making, which in turn forces more bodies into the same queues, should just sit back and enjoy it all.

Easy to dismiss things by calling it embarrassing or people whiners. That's a good solution. Really solves the problem. I feel better already. (Passive aggressive responses are my favorite. I think they're the funniest.)

I'm just trying to enjoy the winter. I came back to this board and the complaints appeared to my to be expressions of frustration. You feel the need to complain, go right ahead. Rock on. You want to ski elsewhere, it's a free country. I don't have to agree with it, nor do I have to bring myself down by looking at the glass half empty. I don't have the money to own a resort so there's not much I can do to address these complaints, other than go somewhere else and I don't want to do that.

Fwiw- IMHO, you're waiting in lines because only the snow making trails are open which is no ones fault but Mother Nature. The snow making trails are all open, so I fail to see how inadequate snow making has anything to do with your complaints. And none of u are giving any credit to the investments that have been made in the snowmaking system (one may validly debate whether they should have invested in fan guns as opposed to efficient nozzles, but to say they haven't invested at all, is just nonsense) The talk about not renting compressors is proof positive that these complaints are not based on facts or any knowledge of the current state of the system.
The oldest lift and most in need of replacement is being replaced by a new quad. This should go a long way to addressing the crowding/line issues. I doubt it's a coincidence that this is happening upon the completion/sale of the rice brook development. Claybrook got us the new gatehouse, schoolhouse and farmhouse. Rice brook, the new valley house quad. Further development, I suspect will lead to further on mountain upgrades. If you want to have a serious discussion, where that investment should go, I'm all for it. Personally, I'd like to see increased lodge/bar capacity at lp, either through a new lodge or a revamped valley house. I think that's what should be next on the list.

[angler]

Howie, I completely agree. I would be more vocal about it, but due to my "no yet start of the season" it is not something I feel comfortable jumping in on.

Where in BC did you go.

Really? Please tell me what you like about long lift lines, slick conditions because of poor snowmaking, boat loads of people from the quad pass, triple pass and lifts that are breaking down on a regular basis.

[Go Figure]

I am sure that there are others here who have more facts, but Summit purchased in 2001. My recollection is that there was a huge amount of deferred maintenance that was just not undertaken by ASC. The dollars add up quickly.

Spring 1995 a seed was planted in a womb during a weekend romp which resulted in a child being born in the fall.
Many gifts were presented before the birth.
A pond was built and bathwater pumped to the top of the hill where it was pressurized with copious amounts of air to make fluffy white snow. [many of you don't remember the days when south had 15% snowmaking coverage, none on OG, Sleeper, Birch and Sunrise to name a few] Bravo for the people to get to the new fluffy manmade and moving the old to the new.[no more couple of weeks a year poma up the newly named Morningstar, when your riding North lynx think about this lift as Bravo with the Northridge double towers.] Fluffy, like stick your pole 16" into the MM snow fuffy.
A Gate[house] to unleash the crowds on the snowy new trails previously barely skied when accessed by a nearly condemned 300' per minute double[ride the Village double, close your eyes and feel the experience of the old Gatehouse{not quite as long, but you get the idea}] Don't forget the hour wait for a 3 minute run.
A long beautiful ride through the "brook" to ski both mountains without taking your skis off 7 days a week. Also provided a couple of "chutes that attract quite the # of poser side country skiers in the same brook.Of course we have the buses that were paid for by ASC, but are now subsidized around 80%+- by taxpayer dollars under the guise of "public transportation".
In 2001 it was time for the child to go to preschool. At this point the child was sent to boarding school where it has been for the last 13[thirteen] years.








It's really time to stop blaming Les Otten for the mountains problems. Soooooooooo many of the newbys around here have no idea of how run down things were prior to ASC buying the hill. I have been here since Roy was driving the bus, so I have an idea. Who remembers The Gallery?

[Go Figure]

The lift that is currently past due for replacment is NorthRidge, well past it's sell by date. The Village chair should be replaced by a HSQ to take the micro blazers and families with toddler off gatehouse so the lift doesn't keep stopping for 1.5-2 minutes a whack to pick up, move to the loading area, help put the skis back on, little kids [3 or4 yo]that fall off the ramp.
Also HG and Summit are more important than VH and past due.

[MntMan4Bush]

It is my opinion and I'm glad you feel I'm allowed it. However just because you disagree doesn't make everyone else a whiner or create a need to focus on the individuals as opposed to the mountain. If you think the mountain is great back it up. Tell me about the tons of man made snow you've skied on. How smooth it was and how quick the lift lines were. How it feels like old times. Win hears compliments to his face and he heads off in a certain direction. That's because people are being polite or don't feel comfortable telling him what they really think. The internet gives the opportunity for anonymous feedback, but because of that it is usually honest. When a liftie asks me how my day is. Why should I complain to him? He's freezing his butt off working while I'm skiing. It';s not his fault. "Having a great day. Thanks." With a smile. He deserves it. When asked on a forum where you can speak freely and the other party is also sitting behind a desk in the warmth reading it? Game on.

I would also have to disagree with which lift is in most need. I keep seeing people say the Valley D shuts down a lot or is on wind hold a lot. I honestly can't remember a time that it was, but I admit perhaps I have selective memory. That's a low lying fixed grip double that doesn't get above the trees. I've seen caution tape on broken chairs. I've seen all of the other lower mountain lifts closed and hiked up to it to do reverse traverse to get to HG which was on wind hold so I could be first in line on a powder day when it did open. Now VD may not be the most pretty lift and perhaps this offends Ricebrookers so it's gotta go. (Personally I like the old school look) However the lifts that need to be looked are are the ones that break down all of the time. Looking at you North Ridge. Could there be a less reliable chair? I'd count on Lucy holding the football for me to kick before I'd count on NR. That thing is made of paper mache.

Again my memory could be slipping but I thought the new lodge (farmhouse) came first. Then Claybrook. Claybrook did not bring the new lodge though maybe it was done because no one would pay the asking prices for Claybrook if the lodge was a giant tent. What I mean is that the revenue for Claybrook did not pay for the lodge. Again thought I would be wrong here. It's been a while.

Bad snowmaking doesn't make lines? Did you ski on OG that weekend SB and GH went down? It was glass. Un-edgeable. Like only the kind you can find when the snow that was made on it ages ago was like spraying a water cannon. Ripcord? Only slightly better. As the day went on and it finally started snowing it actually got pretty good. Imagine that. Snow on a trail made the conditions better. What I'm saying here though is that HG was so bad that no one was skiing it which forced people to other lifts and made the lines even longer. Down goes GH again. Let's get in the SB line. Down goes SB.

Yes. natural snow trails not being open exasperate the problem. Agreed. However it also helps highlight there are issues. Every year we go through a "snow making sucks" thread. Then mother nature comes in and bails out the Bush. We're all happy and skiing and everyone forgets about how bad the snow making is. Add in the quad packs this year, longer lines, more lifts breaking, and a stingy mother nature and the problems are in your face an unavoidable.

[Plowboy]

Who remembers The Gallery?

The Gallery was the restaurant in the Sports Center

How bout the Red Nose Room?

Roy ran a tight ship(bus), the owners(and management) until ASC did nothing, then Les....more or less gave us 90% of the new lifts and snowmaking. But, installed used snowmaking pipes and skimped on lift maintenance. I won't throw out rumors or hear say about SV, but I do know that other then new paving(after 20+ years) and paint not much gets done @ ME all summer.

IMO the NR, HG or VL should be replaced first!! The North Ridge Chair has been a POS since day 1!!!

Now....Bring on the SNOW.....it will make most of us grin ear to ear when we ski some of the best terrain in the East...and if some don't like it....there are plenty of other places to ski or ride.

[chrisinvermont]

I have not been on this thread for a while and may not be back for awhile as it really does get tiring listening to some of this misinformation. Here are the facts. We have put $50 million into the mountain since purchasing and that does not include any real estate development.

I recently read the article on your book that was in 7 Days (sorry i haven't read the actual book). I find it interesting that the gist of the book appears to be that you saw the writing on the wall at Merrill Lynch and were ignored and shut out by those in charge. Seems like you are taking the same attitude with SB, unless it is praise you don't want to hear it or change anything. I have held out on the bitchfest but there is actual valuable criticism and feedback that you are getting here and now you want to take your ball and go home.

I'm glad you put $50 million into the mountain but where did that go if not to real estate? I am guessing when you state excluding real estate, you are excluding claybrook and ricebrook which were real estate development but including the base area development which would be infrastruture to the ski area and not a real estate development project. The real issue is that while $50 million is great, perhaps it should have been more to keep up with other areas. If it should have taken $75 million to recover from ASC ownership and to keep up with other local resorts, then bragging about the $50 million isn't so great.

You may not hear it Win but I have heard from many locals that ski around VT and NH and people are increasing frustrated with SB. Some of these folks are SB passholders but alot of them ski various areas each year and compare. A friend who is a shop owner subidized passes to SB this year for employees when in the past they did that for Stowe. Everytime I ski with him at SB this year he is not pleased with the conditions and wonders if they should have stayed at Stowe. They will probably return to Stowe next year. These are employees in the ski industry and you have to know they are telling customers and friends the same thing.

Please stay around and keep us updated. I have had a SB pass for almost 10 years now and have no desire to switch ski areas. Read between the hysterics and find the valuable feedback you have been given and use it to your advantage.

[southvillager]

Let's be fair a lot of work has gone into the mountain recently. I am not sure, but I think Summit Ventures replaced the Castlerock chair. Replaced a chair at ME. Replaced the water pipe from the pond. Replaced the pond after Irene. Built the base lodges at LP. Bought some guns and 3 or 4 groomers. Opened up loads of awesome glades. I think that may add up to $50M.

The question I have is whether that sum is enough for the product to remain competitive to other major ski areas. Maybe ownership should take a ride to Okemo, Stowe or Jay on a busy Saturday and check out the conditions and lines. Maybe they should sample their own product on a busy Saturday after the dust is skied off. After waiting in line like those of us with only a season pass.

In another thread about snowmaking, someone asked how can we possibly improve snowmaking since we have 100% coverage on snowmaking trails. Simple...create a surface that is skiable for intermediates after 9:30 on a Saturday on blue trails. Seriously, it is as simple as that. That is a very, very low bar, but a goal that is rarely if ever reached. Make the place skiable. Get rid of the perma-whales with their horrendous sheets of ice on trails like Lower Organgrinder and Snowball. Make the cruising trails into cruising trails. So people can actually cruise. Take a few minutes and watch the customers try to ski down Snowball in the section just after the entrance to Moonshine. It is a disaster, they cannot ski it. Watch those same folks try to ski Downspout, same deal. Or the end of the traverse. It is a nightmare. I enjoy Paradise and Castlerock, etc., but the majority of my guests and friends just want skiable blue cruisers. And I really like to rip at high speeds on a nice groomer. I'm 50, in a few short years I will be limited to less difficult trails. It would be nice if they were fun to ski, rather than skied off "dust on crust".

I'm betting that more improvements will come. More tickets sold means more revenue, and then larger budgets for infrastructure. I can't imagine that management is trying to create a brand around low quality product at a low price. Right now, cheap tickets, lift lines, and surface conditions are pointing in that direction, but I think it is temporary.