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Thread: Spring Triple

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    As for snowmaking, seems to me all the snowmaking trails are open so there is no issue with the volume of snow they are producing. Hawk will tell me that the "quality" of the snow is crap, but I'm not qualified to render an opinion about that do I'll skip the debate.
    The mountains we are comparing to do not just make the bare minimum to open a a trail. Or perhaps that's not a fair statement to SB. Rather once a trail is open they continue to blow snow on the trail throughout the season so the user experience is enhanced with soft snow under foot. They do so even after snow storms, but especially when the season is off to a poor start. They had their guns out weeks ago. They never put them away. SB on the other hand blasts snow to open a trail, says it's open then turns the guns off and stores them for the season. If the trail starts to get bare early they will turn them back on again, but only to blast some wet glob that will freeze and be harder to thaw and make it more resistant to weather changes, but not be very good to ski on.

    So while 100% of snow making trails are open the mountains we are comparing to do not just blow snow to open. They blow snow to ski on throughout the season. When mother nature is kind we hardly notice the difference except for the start of the season, but then soon everyone forgets these threads (look them up. Every year. Same time. Then they stop though snow making didn't change) when SB gets bailed out with some storms. That is the "quantity" issue we are referring to. Just being open is the lowest bar to set. Back when there wasn't a ton of people at the mountain that may have been enough since it didn't get skied off so easily. Plus how can you justify the cost if the money isn't coming in. Now that visits are up, the money is in and mountain is not keeping up. You don't need to see exact numbers to know. Last year the record for skier visits was broken TWICE. This year they broke it again already.

    For "quality" I'm sure Hawk has a lot to add on how snow is made, gun types, ratios, etc, but as a skier if you ski some of our local competitors then ski ours you can tell from the user experience. There is no comparison. It's not even close. Hell, if Killington is making poor quality snow and ours is the best as it is written in the books of how to make snow then I wish we would degrade the snow being made at SB. Then we should go out, find the person who wrote this book and send them skidding down OGs ice wall in their underwear.

  2. #47
    Another thing to point out is that the way the lift system is set up is kind of unique. At lp, it is a hub and spoke system. This works great for us regulars when the whole system is running, because we don't have to go down to the base to ride the quads. I think this is better than the way other mountains have it, where you have to go all the way down to the base to get a lift to the top. But when one or more of the upper mtn lifts aren't running, like castle rock hasn't because of the lack of natural snow, it places an increased burden on the base quads such that you have increased lift lines. So what's an advantage in normal operations becomes a liability when there is an issue with one or more of the spokes.
    What can the mtn do about that? Increase uphill capacity from the base, which is exactly what they are doing with a new vh quad. Am I the only one who thinks this will be a huge improvement and precisely what is needed to address the lift line issue.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    he said the nrx hasn't been a problem since they fixed the issue that arose before Xmas. So I am at a loss to understand all the complaints about it on here.
    NRX was down at least 2 days last week, maybe 3. It was even mentioned in the snow report that they were trying to get it up and running.

  4. #49
    Curious as to why quad packs are receiving the brunt of the complaints...what about the 4-20s passes? not as significant an impact?

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I have asked this question and from People who work at the mountain and from my own inquiries arond the mountain there is no denying that the quad packs have increased the skier visits. I do not know the numbers but have heard that is was significant. It's funny you say that becase everyone i know and everyone I have talk to that has a paper ticket confirmed to me that they bought a quad pack so I feel that my obsevation is correct.
    Yeah but that doesn't mean those people are skiing at the mountain because of the quad pack. I have personally 5-6 friends who bought quad packs, but they were going to ski the mtn regardless. They are saving some coin, and sv is getting cash flow, but I don't know how many skiers it's adding. I'm sure it's some, no denying that, but not sure how significant. Skier visits in General have been going up, before the quad pack. They certainly have nothing to do with increasing season ticket sales and blazers.
    I think the definitive number is skier visits, and while that has risen, I don't know that the rate of increase changed dramatically with the introduction of the quad packs last year. And when looking at the numbers, remember that they also introduced the 420s pass at the same time and that was popular.

    And growth is good if the infrastructure is built to handle it. So we get a new quad next season, and then I'd bet they build another phase of real estate and a new lodge/improved valley house.

    And it's snowing, so it's all good fellas. Perchance castle rock is open this weekend??? I'd be happy with a hike over.

  6. #51
    Bravo is down yet again. Valley house spinning.

    So it's all good fellas.

  7. #52

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    Quad/VH

    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    Yeah but that doesn't mean those people are skiing at the mountain because of the quad pack. I have personally 5-6 friends who bought quad packs, but they were going to ski the mtn regardless. They are saving some coin, and sv is getting cash flow, but I don't know how many skiers it's adding. I'm sure it's some, no denying that, but not sure how significant. Skier visits in General have been going up, before the quad pack. They certainly have nothing to do with increasing season ticket sales and blazers.
    I think the definitive number is skier visits, and while that has risen, I don't know that the rate of increase changed dramatically with the introduction of the quad packs last year. And when looking at the numbers, remember that they also introduced the 420s pass at the same time and that was popular.

    And growth is good if the infrastructure is built to handle it. So we get a new quad next season, and then I'd bet they build another phase of real estate and a new lodge/improved valley house.

    And it's snowing, so it's all good fellas. Perchance castle rock is open this weekend??? I'd be happy with a hike over.
    'Next year'? I bet we don't see that until 16/17 season - the environmental issues ( I know, there are really none) and the permitting process ( regulation) have probably quadrupled since Slide Brook was conceived - and if anyone recalls, that took a huge amount of time from application to useable.

    We have people on this list concerned with one or two trees getting iced or cut by skis - when the entire ski industry takes up maybe .5% of all federal land MAYBE less! So when you have paid position in both state and federal government whose job it is to make these things tough to do - 2 years from application is not out of the question.

    I just can't imagine why they don't extend it down to below VH and be rid of the gridlock. I know there are buildings we all want to save, but that walk up keep the lines at SB longer. Even the old Spring Fling chair base would be an improvement.

    I've mentioned this a long time ago, but with a 5 year plan outlined, why not sell bonds from those of us who live or have second homes here to fund the build out? Seems K-Mart did that in the 80's with success ( although I am not certain of that) - they were selling 10 or 15 yr. bonds and paying a low rate of return plus lifetime or 10 yr. passes. . . . . . . . .. . .

  8. #53
    AAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDD, Valley House has shit the bed, have a nice walk to HG from the base.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by jwt View Post
    'Next year'? I bet we don't see that until 16/17 season - the environmental issues ( I know, there are really none) and the permitting process ( regulation) have probably quadrupled since Slide Brook was conceived - and if anyone recalls, that took a huge amount of time from application to useable.

    We have people on this list concerned with one or two trees getting iced or cut by skis - when the entire ski industry takes up maybe .5% of all federal land MAYBE less! So when you have paid position in both state and federal government whose job it is to make these things tough to do - 2 years from application is not out of the question.

    I just can't imagine why they don't extend it down to below VH and be rid of the gridlock. I know there are buildings we all want to save, but that walk up keep the lines at SB longer. Even the old Spring Fling chair base would be an improvement.

    I've mentioned this a long time ago, but with a 5 year plan outlined, why not sell bonds from those of us who live or have second homes here to fund the build out? Seems K-Mart did that in the 80's with success ( although I am not certain of that) - they were selling 10 or 15 yr. bonds and paying a low rate of return plus lifetime or 10 yr. passes. . . . . . . . .. . .
    Lift was never promised for next year and I have not seen any notice of Local or Act 250 permit apps yet.
    The gridlock clusterfuck would increase if another lift loaded from the same spot. Open your eyes and take a good look at the space. Also the Spring Fling site is an even longer walk. How about the unfit folks skiing remember to turn right onto Coffee Run or left when they see the Valley House lodge. Otherwise it is a quick <minute walk up the hill. It would also [if this crappy Steins spring skiing stays the norm] make a decent spring venue[if they wouldn't make you leave the skiing and go to GH/CRP for food and drinks.
    You can all forget the early Summit V dream of tearing down the Valley House as the reality that the Gate House is way too small to accomodate the crowds. They also squandered the best real estate available for a new base lodge [like a gate house lodge you can see gatehouse trails from] with the sprawled out farm and school Houses. Only spot left is in front of the Village Double and with only a fixed grip triple for this spot it would be a pain in the foot for all of the folks who can't walk uphill as it is.[ya know to struggle back up to gatehouse lift after a burger and fries]

    No intelligent investor would buy ski area bonds. And look what happened to most of the "lifetime" pass holders at Killington [and here for that matter].

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Figure View Post
    AAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDD, Valley House has shit the bed, have a nice walk to HG from the base.
    Interestingly the SB webcams are all frozen too....

  11. #56

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    Today is a perfect day to use as a example of what is wrong here. First real powder day and 2 out of three base lifts are down. On another note went to Stowe today and they were blowing snow on trails while it was puking snow. This is what we have been talking about Howie. A mountain that is committed to giving the best product as possible.

  12. #57
    Snowmakers here got laid off this week.

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Figure View Post
    Snowmakers here got laid off this week.
    And there you have it, .............

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by jwt View Post
    'Next year'? I bet we don't see that until 16/17 season - the environmental issues ( I know, there are really none) and the permitting process ( regulation) have probably quadrupled since Slide Brook was conceived - and if anyone recalls, that took a huge amount of time from application to useable.

    We have people on this list concerned with one or two trees getting iced or cut by skis - when the entire ski industry takes up maybe .5% of all federal land MAYBE less! So when you have paid position in both state and federal government whose job it is to make these things tough to do - 2 years from application is not out of the question.

    I just can't imagine why they don't extend it down to below VH and be rid of the gridlock. I know there are buildings we all want to save, but that walk up keep the lines at SB longer. Even the old Spring Fling chair base would be an improvement.

    I've mentioned this a long time ago, but with a 5 year plan outlined, why not sell bonds from those of us who live or have second homes here to fund the build out? Seems K-Mart did that in the 80's with success ( although I am not certain of that) - they were selling 10 or 15 yr. bonds and paying a low rate of return plus lifetime or 10 yr. passes. . . . . . . . .. . .
    U might be right, but the application appears to contemplate starting work this spring. Slidebrook was a brand new lift line 2 miles across forest service land. This is just the replacement of an existing lift on private property. U can't really compare replacing a simple relatively short lift, with installing and cutting a lift line for the longest chairlift in the conus. There can't really be any objection to installing the lift, but we shall see.

    I agree about bringing the lift down to the base level. The only reason I can think of, is that they have plans for the structure that is in the way. When they were first designing the base, before they built clay brook and gatehouse, the plan was to eliminate the valley house and bring the lift down by the super bravo. That changed when they decided not to demolish the valley house. I sure hope they have some plans for the valley house, because it needs to be updated so it can be better utilized.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by angler View Post
    Today is a perfect day to use as a example of what is wrong here. First real powder day and 2 out of three base lifts are down. On another note went to Stowe today and they were blowing snow on trails while it was puking snow. This is what we have been talking about Howie. A mountain that is committed to giving the best product as possible.
    Can't argue with that.


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