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  1. #121
    SB will never "catch up" with Stowe's pace of capital improvements, at least so long as Stowe is owned by AIG. We just have to accept that. That being said, SB ownership has made plenty of effective capital improvements and I'm sure will continue to do so. I do believe that lift maintenance and repair could be better, and that the mountain can communicate better when lift problems occur. I'm also looking forward to seeing Win's promised communication re. snowmaking.

  2. #122
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    My assessment is from three things: One, I asked at the source(at the compressor plant a couple of years ago and then more recently) Two, I happen to know a coupe of snow makers that used to live near me and frequent the pine tree. Three, I have actually made snow in my life time. They told me that unless there is a drought, there is plenty of water. Especially since they fixed the pipe comming up from river and redug the resi after the hurricane. The river flows and fills the ressi constantly so how would there be a shortage? They also said that air is the issue when it comes to sheer volume. If they just blew a small area all the guns would be fine. But they strech the boundry and get into trouble. This is most eveident when it is cold and they still blow glop. SO, if the guns work so efficiainty and make such remarkable snow, then why do I get glop on my lense every single time they blow. Even when it is 10 deg out??? I am forming my opinion based on feild research and experience. You know....... I am going to get a go-Pro and do some investigative reporting and then release it. That way people will not think I am talking out my a$$.

    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    Win said when we had this debate last year, that as a result of the more efficient guns, they were maxing out on water such that the air was no longer a limiting capacity. That is why we dont see rented diesel compressors. Water capacity is a complicated issue because it not only involves how much water can physically be pumped but also how much can legally be pumped pursuant to permit.
    But again I dont think the complaints lie with how much snow was made since all the snowmaking trails were open, but in the quality of that snow.
    There are different guns that they have invested in over the last years. there are the low e guns which you see on the towers and the snologic guns which are mostly free standing but also on towers. The latter are supposedly extremely efficient in the prime wet bulb temperatures. My observation of the snow they were putting out when the the temps were right, was that they made a ton of silky snow. If there is a problem with those guns it is at suboptimal temperatures and that they are unwieldy to move around.
    I think the "bad" snow people are complaining about are from the the old ratnik ground guns (the ones we see with hoses on the ground) and the old tower guns which they seem to be replacing. I believe it was stated here last year that they still use those because they are easier to move into certain locations.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
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  3. #123
    Can't be Stowe so don't even try to compete? I know you didn't say that, but that's the other side of the argument.

    I guess I'm saying that our competition is out pacing us. We don't need to be lock step with them, but how about not falling so far behind they stop looking over their shoulders. We are getting more revenue now. I don't know how much Stowe makes a year compared to us. I'm sure there's a difference. Though I was talking to someone at my golf club who is good friends with the CFO and Stowe is not exactly rolling in buckets of money from what I understand. Though this is all third hand communication and subject to all kinds of wrong.

    Also I think the pipe was replaced because it burst and washed out the road though right? I seem to have a memory about this, but I could be way wrong. If I'm right then it's hard to give credit for replacing something when it was causing damage to the surrounding community. I mean let's wait until it starts causing some real damage and gushing tons of water before we touch it. If that's not a sign of neglect I don't know what is. If I'm wrong though my apologies and in most cases I am likely to be wrong.

  4. #124
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    I believe they were working on the road and discovered the pipe was in really bad shap. Thay realized they needed to fix it now instead of having disaster later.
    Quote Originally Posted by MntMan4Bush View Post
    Can't be Stowe so don't even try to compete? I know you didn't say that, but that's the other side of the argument.

    Allso I think the pipe was replaced because it burst and washed out the road though right? I seem to have a memory about this, but I could be way wrong. If I'm right then it's hard to give credit for replacing something when it was causing damage to the surrounding community. I mean let's wait until it starts causing some real damage and gushing tons of water before we touch it. If that's not a sign of neglect I don't know what is. If I'm wrong though my apologies and in most cases I am likely to be wrong.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  5. #125

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    'Can't be Stowe so don't even try to compete? I know you didn't say that, but that's the other side of the argument."

    Understood, with that being said there still needs to be some accountability to the fact that they have increased skier visits substancially to the detriment of the experience. What good are improvements if they don't effect change in the experience? Why should SB " Get Out Of Jail Card Free because they don't have as much money as Stowe or other mountains. At some point you have to compare them to their competition. Just saying................

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    Win said when we had this debate last year, that as a result of the more efficient guns, they were maxing out on water such that the air was no longer a limiting capacity. That is why we dont see rented diesel compressors. Water capacity is a complicated issue because it not only involves how much water can physically be pumped but also how much can legally be pumped pursuant to permit.
    But again I dont think the complaints lie with how much snow was made since all the snowmaking trails were open, but in the quality of that snow.
    There are different guns that they have invested in over the last years. there are the low e guns which you see on the towers and the snologic guns which are mostly free standing but also on towers. The latter are supposedly extremely efficient in the prime wet bulb temperatures. My observation of the snow they were putting out when the the temps were right, was that they made a ton of silky snow. If there is a problem with those guns it is at suboptimal temperatures and that they are unwieldy to move around.
    I think the "bad" snow people are complaining about are from the the old ratnik ground guns (the ones we see with hoses on the ground) and the old tower guns which they seem to be replacing. I believe it was stated here last year that they still use those because they are easier to move into certain locations.
    The low e guns a fraction of the air which is what makes snow making so expensive, uses energy and usually limits snow making capacity. I think sugarbush maxes out of air most of the time they are making snow. As a system they are definitely making more snow because of the low e guns.

  7. #127
    My understanding is that kton gets more than double the skier visits that sb does. There was time when it was more than triple. I think Stowe doesn't get quite as much as kton, but it is still substantially more than sb. I could be totally wrong, because I haven't seen hard numbers in a couple of years.
    And btw-while we r talking about snowmaking at kton, how r things at pico. I heard people complaining about the snow making there. And last year there was an uproar about the snowmaking for the dew tour there. Just saying.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by angler View Post
    'Can't be Stowe so don't even try to compete? I know you didn't say that, but that's the other side of the argument."

    Understood, with that being said there still needs to be some accountability to the fact that they have increased skier visits substancially to the detriment of the experience. What good are improvements if they don't effect change in the experience? Why should SB " Get Out Of Jail Card Free because they don't have as much money as Stowe or other mountains. At some point you have to compare them to their competition. Just saying................
    Because some of us are at sb because we don't want the crowds of Stowe and kton.

  9. #129

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    Because some of us are at sb because we don't want the crowds of Stowe and kton.
    I would have agreed with you a could of years ago. Im not sure that if there is a difference anymore. Im not sure of the numbers but skiing at both mountains the past two years it doesn't feel like the lift lines are different. In some cases they might be shorter at Stowe then SB. The lift system and the speed of the lifts are capable of moving a lot of people up the mountain. I was surprised by this...

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    Because some of us are at sb because we don't want the crowds of Stowe and kton.
    Whether you want them or not with all the cheap tickets flying out the door we are working our way towards it, not away from it. So if we are going to be more like them crowd-wise, which draws in revenue, then my point is we should at least get some more of the perks they do like better snow and dependable lifts.

    You also can't compare number of visitors at K-ton to here. You'd have to take a place that has the exact same ski acreage and compare to say one has more visits than the others and draw a parallel. Whistler also gets a lot more skiers than SB. Yet somehow they don't have as many lines.......... See what I mean?

    Lastly I've seen tons of those videos. My former favorite was the one about the Sorority Girl Letter. This one though was outstanding. If you were the author then my compliments. It was perfect.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by angler View Post
    'Can't be Stowe so don't even try to compete? I know you didn't say that, but that's the other side of the argument."

    Understood, with that being said there still needs to be some accountability to the fact that they have increased skier visits substancially to the detriment of the experience. What good are improvements if they don't effect change in the experience? Why should SB " Get Out Of Jail Card Free because they don't have as much money as Stowe or other mountains. At some point you have to compare them to their competition. Just saying................
    I'd also like to see some #s. I don't believe that skier visits have increased substantially. I'm sure they're doing better, but I'd be surprised if visits over the past 2-3 years have increased more than 10%. Again, AIG, a big public company, owns Stowe. There's just more $$ available for capital improvements, so long as operating income can cover the additional investment. SB owners must come out of pocket (family $$), as they're likely terrified (justifiably) of funding improvements with debt. They do have some additional flexibility, however, as they don't require the return that AIG does.

  13. #133
    Administrator Nick's Avatar
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    I think I need to visit skirmv more often

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  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I think I need to visit skirmv more often
    Why, are the apologists still over on the main site whining that people here dare to question Win?

  15. #135
    With updates like this, the crowd issue will be resolved quickly.

    *** Due to icing, the following lifts are delayed: Heaven's Gate, Castlerock, North Lynx, Summit, Northridge, and GMX. Super Bravo is on maintenance delay. Slide Brook is closed for the day. **
    The icing I get, it's nature but Bravo is down yet again.

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