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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahm View Post
    Great Mountain translates to great terrain. It does not include the infrastructure to operate it. This season what most are experiencing is the lack of skiing variety which is putting extra pressure on the lift system because it is really only groomer skiing. Without a healthy dose of natural allowing skiers to have greater trail/off trail variety, all of the areas that need significant improvement become all the more obvious: Lift mechanical system and preventative maintenance, snowmaking, quad packs and clay brookers. What it may translate to is skiing different hills in lean snow years and the bush when there is ample natural................maybe everyone should just go with quad packs allowing the freedom to ski elsewhere when the conditions are not prime. For the power snowmaking hills in NE, the terrain is ample, well covered, and most of the "boiler" has been chewed up by groomers. As weather patterns change, power snowmaking hills may be where skiers tend to go. That could force either an upgrade of critical systems at SB or a continued MRG approach to the actual "ski" product.
    I agree with all the above except your definition of Great Mountain. I don't think you can classify a mountain great if you can't access the terrain. All these other mountains that have been mentioned understand with the changing weather patterns that you can't rely on mother nature to create your own Great Mountain anymore. If you get lots of natural snow it's a bonus. Even though some of us has seen this coming for a while you are spot on this years conditions combined with everything else we have been speaking about has exposed "The Emperor's New Clothes.
    Last edited by angler; 01-28-2014 at 08:11 AM.

  2. #17

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    Angler: To ski great terrain you do not need lifts or snowmaking and that is why I defined a great mountain as one with great terrain and specifically did not include the infrastructure. Lifts, snowmaking, grooming are all part of the infrastructure of the ski area. Sugarbush has great terrain, but needs improvement in the areas of infrastructure which is what most on the board are discussing.

    As a 65:35 backcountry:lift skier, I do not need the lifts or the snowmaking to go enjoy great terrain. When I am going to lift ski, infrastructure becomes important because I have made the choice to pay to ride up and come down on the ski areas' product. For that reason, I ski SR as I am 40 min from the hill. The terrain is not great by any stretch, but the infrastructure is fantastic: tons of snowmaking, reliable lifts, solid grooming and enough open terrain to spread the crowd even on a normal/high use weekend.

    Overall, it has been a tough season in both NE and the US overall. UT is devoid of much snow, PNW was spring like on my trip last week but that made for low avi danger in both the Crystal Sidecountry/backcounty & the Baker backcountry. It looks like CO is starting to shape up while the NE continues to be in a high pressure with not much snow forecasted. Until NE starts to get a bit more love, you might consider pointing your skis in another direction.....................Off to CO for late Feb.

  3. #18
    ThinkSno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bumpcrasher View Post
    Since the $50 lift ticket (aka "the Quad Pack") a normal Saturday sees crowds that were only reserved for the busiest holiday weekends, a few years ago. I agree with WWF-VT, Mt. Ellen is an option. However, almost half the days this season, the North Ridge Chair is broken and North does not ski well without it.
    In short, I hope the mountain can strike a better balance as the current situation is tough to get used to.
    Is there any proof that the crowds are due to the Quad pack, or could the problem be bad snow & summit chairs not running? Here's a couple suggestions either way:

    1) Offer a limited amount of discounted weekday lift tickets on Liftopia to spread out the crowds, and lose the quad pack. Why is it that Sugarbush seems to be the only VT mountain not offering lift tickets on that site (excluding learn to ski packages)? Perhaps management needs to know what the number of guest visits will be prior to the start of the season....?

    2) Run the snow-cat (used for evening dinners in Allyn's Lodge) to the summits when lifts aren't running due to win-hold.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkSno View Post
    2) Run the snow-cat (used for evening dinners in Allyn's Lodge) to the summits when lifts aren't running due to win-hold.

    very funny, the snow cat is reserved for people who pay to be win-hold friends..........
    Last edited by angler; 01-28-2014 at 02:03 PM.

  5. #20
    Regarding Quad Packs: Before you indict the $50 ski day enabled by the Quad Pack, calculate what you pay on a per ski day basis with your season pass or your ticket strategy. $1200 worth of Quad Packs buys 24 ski days. Is that so different from what pass holders are purchasing?

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orca View Post
    Regarding Quad Packs: Before you indict the $50 ski day enabled by the Quad Pack, calculate what you pay on a per ski day basis with your season pass or your ticket strategy. $1200 worth of Quad Packs buys 24 ski days. Is that so different from what pass holders are purchasing?
    Its very different on many levels.....

  7. #22
    gostan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orca View Post
    Regarding Quad Packs: Before you indict the $50 ski day enabled by the Quad Pack, calculate what you pay on a per ski day basis with your season pass or your ticket strategy. $1200 worth of Quad Packs buys 24 ski days. Is that so different from what pass holders are purchasing?
    Quad Packs are limited to two per customer.
    Stan

    "There's No Cure For Life"

  8. #23
    I bet a good percentage of Quads were bought by pass holders. I did. Many of my friends did as well. I say that not really knowing..... Or if it matters. One thing for sure is the product (relating to lodging, meals, etc) is far different than even 10 years ago and i suspect it will continue to change.

  9. #24
    I understand the argument over renting compressors, but I don't think that fixes the fundamental issue of the snowmaking budget. SB seems to have a very strict snowmaking budget. Air compressors would just mean that they hit those budget numbers quicker.

  10. #25
    Hawk's Avatar
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    We bought two quad packs for friends and I have 30 days in this year so far as a weekend and vacation person. I'm at $40 a day YAY!!!!

    The Quad pack has certaily boosted the numbers. I always ask anybody on the lift with us with a paper ticket if they got a Quad pack. I honestly don't think anybody has anwsered with a no.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  11. #26
    2 per person but no restrictions per family, that is to say husband/wife could buy 8 tickets each.


  12. #27

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    Jan 2006
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    not on the mtn at the moment
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcampbell View Post
    2 per person but no restrictions per family, that is to say husband/wife could buy 8 tickets each.
    PC,

    We did that, and we had other friends we told about them too. As season pass holders, I bet we're good for 4-6 Quad pack purchases.

    Here's the thing - we haven't used ANY of them yet - not good enough conditions for the guests we have to go out and scrape for $50. we're gambling on Feb/March being great.

    We'll end up giving some to friends or my kids friends when they come up, but I bet they have 20% or greater non-used purchases - very much like gift cards- they have a 17% of non-use nation-wide.

    So much depends on conditions or worse yet, perceived conditions. As they used to say ( in the 80's anyway) 4-6" in central MA/CT/NY is better for business than none down there and three feet up here. Out of sight , out of mind.

    That said, this mountain counts on natural snow. So does MRG to a much greater extend. Those pass-holders understand that, but here, they expect a 'Big Mountain' snow-making experience just like at the Mart, SR, or Mt Snow, etc.

    I don't come here for the snow-making - like and appreciate it when they provide it, but like AHM, I come for terrain - skinning or hiking or riding lifts. . . . . ( and yes , I know, i PAY for the lift ride, and grooming, etc) The season is a moment in time and it too shall pass. . . . . . 2 2' dumps and this conversation is toast too.

  13. #28
    Everyone's concept of a Great Mountain is different because each individual places different relative value on their personal evaluation criteria. In a word, it's subjective.

    Still, I doubt many people find greatness lately in the mismatch between the number of skiers at the Lincoln base area and the uphill capacity of the Super Bravo and Gate House lifts that has caused such long lines. I doubt many people find greatness in the mechanical failings that have plagued multiple lifts this year. I doubt many find greatness in the comparative lack of capital improvements to the physical plant during the current ownership's tenure.
    Last edited by Orca; 01-28-2014 at 10:13 PM.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orca View Post
    Everyone's concept of a Great Mountain is different because each individual places different relative value on their personal evaluation criteria. In a word, it's subjective.

    Still, I doubt many people find greatness lately in the mismatch between the number of skiers at the Lincoln base area and the uphill capacity of the Super Bravo and Gate House lifts that has caused such long lines. I doubt many people find greatness in the mechanical failings that have plagued multiple lifts this year. I doubt many find greatness in the comparative lack of capital improvements to the physical plant during the current ownership's tenure.
    +1, Well said.

  15. #30
    Wow, I am really surprised at all the issues this year. For reasons that don't include conditions/crowds/lifts I have yet to make it to the 'Bush so I have not experienced the reality. From skiing there for many many years I certainly agree that lifts, snowmaking and terrain have seen limited investment over many years. This is in comparison to Stowe, Killiington etc that have made significant investments, so the gap has grown.

    But what is shocking, after years on this blog, is that Win is absent? No comments on some serious issues being discussed by some of the most loyal of Sugarbush fans?! Surprising.

    I plan to be up in mid March. I guess I have to hope mother nature delivers...............

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