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  1. #346

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benski View Post
    Think of the single chair was about 60 when it was replaced. They also replaced the chairs and base terminal on the valley house at some point. In the lodges there is a picture of the lift from before those parts were replaced.
    Understood, hope we don't have to wait another 60 years! Most of us would be dead by then. LOL

  2. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Benski View Post
    Think of the single chair was about 60 when it was replaced. They also replaced the chairs and base terminal on the valley house at some point. In the lodges there is a picture of the lift from before those parts were replaced.
    Comparing most of the lifts here to the old single is like comparing a toaster to a convection oven.

  3. #348
    Howie wrote: "I may be totally wrong about this but this is my understanding. A lift is a machine which is built into a foundation. The foundational elements are the footings for the lift towers and the wheels. The mechanical elements of a lift can be fixed, upgraded or even replaced. Sensors and electrical systems can be upgraded. It is only when the foundational elements begin to deteriorate that it is beyond repair. Therefore you should measure a lifts life span by how long the footings last."

    Yes, and also the metal towers, which fatigue over time. This isn't a great analogy, but the useful life of a commercial aircraft, while depreciated for tax and accounting purposes over a short period (most often 7 years), can run upwards of 50-60 years, as parts and instruments are constantly replaced and improved and the fuselage is taken apart piece by piece and re-assembled. DC-8 aircraft manufactured in the 60s are still operating all over Africa, Asia and South America. At some point, accumulated fuselage fatigue is too great and the plane must be scrapped. I'd imagine that the towers would reach the end of their useful lives at pretty much the same time, necessitating a total replacement.

  4. #349
    Practically speaking, a properly maintained lift can be kept functional long beyond the time at which technology makes it obsolete. For instance, Heaven's Gate likely can be maintained to last another 30 years; however, it's design is showing its age today. Ski areas are replacing lifts for the purpose of upgrading the skiing experience (higher capacity for shorter lines, high speed for shorter transit times) long before the lifts succumb to decrepitude. Well, at least other ski areas are doing this.

  5. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Orca View Post
    Practically speaking, a properly maintained lift can be kept functional long beyond the time at which technology makes it obsolete. For instance, Heaven's Gate likely can be maintained to last another 30 years; however, it's design is showing its age today. Ski areas are replacing lifts for the purpose of upgrading the skiing experience (higher capacity for shorter lines, high speed for shorter transit times) long before the lifts succumb to decrepitude. Well, at least other ski areas are doing this.
    That all sound good until your trails become crowded. Some of the ski areas have situations like the Porsche event every weekend because there are so many people and it is dangerous. Hunter which recently installed a six pack and one of the trails of the lift has 10 injuries a day on one trail. Than the any day at mellan this season. I think management need to make sure that is not the future of sugarbush.

  6. #351

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benski View Post
    That all sound good until your trails become crowded. Some of the ski areas have situations like the Porsche event every weekend because there are so many people and it is dangerous. Hunter which recently installed a six pack and one of the trails of the lift has 10 injuries a day on one trail. Than the any day at mellan this season. I think management need to make sure that is not the future of sugarbush.
    I'm sure they could find a balance between both extremes. Let's be real, the lift situation leaves a lot to be desired.

  7. #352
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    I could care less about the lift times and capacity of the HG, SB, GH and NL lifts. I only ask that they run consistently because when they do, the mountain seems to be fine with the crowds Well at least it is tolerable. The VH lift upgrade I think is a good idea. Typically older lifts have issues with aging electronics and sensor problems. Lift controls is a pretty complex deal for most lifts especially high speed detachables. I have been told that renovating the electronics to a lift is usually all that is needed to make it more reliable. But I am sure that would coast a great deal because any specialized contractor is ridiculously expensive. I will be interested to hear what is planned for this summer in the preventive maintenance. I will be up a bunch and will check in to see.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  8. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by angler View Post
    I'm sure they could find a balance between both extremes. Let's be real, the lift situation leaves a lot to be desired.
    I think the point is that they don't need new lifts except to replace the vh. They don't need to add capacity at heavens gate just to get it to run reliably.

  9. #354

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    I think the point is that they don't need new lifts except to replace the vh. They don't need to add capacity at heavens gate just to get it to run reliably.
    Thats where we disagree. My point is they do need new lifts, and they can find a balance between shit shows and overcrowding the trails. There are penny of examples to model after. Anyway it's not our decision. On a better note it looks like sun and soft snow for the weekend. Lets have fun!

  10. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by angler View Post
    Thats where we disagree. My point is they do need new lifts, and they can find a balance between shit shows and overcrowding the trails. There are penny of examples to model after. Anyway it's not our decision. On a better note it looks like sun and soft snow for the weekend. Lets have fun!
    why do "they need new lifts"?
    you've made this statement repeatedly, but without explanation. The only reason a "new Lift" is needed is to replace an old lift whose foundation is crumbling or to increase capacity. so where are you arguing they need increased capacity other than the valley house which is in the works????
    As far as Im concerned, not at any of the upper mtn lifts, hg, cr or nl. not at gatehouse nor superbravo.
    and the mt ellen lifts certainly dont need increased capacity.


  11. #356

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    why do "they need new lifts"?
    you've made this statement repeatedly, but without explanation. The only reason a "new Lift" is needed is to replace an old lift whose foundation is crumbling or to increase capacity. so where are you arguing they need increased capacity other than the valley house which is in the works????
    As far as Im concerned, not at any of the upper mtn lifts, hg, cr or nl. not at gatehouse nor superbravo.
    and the mt ellen lifts certainly dont need increased capacity.
    Well, I think they need a new top to bottom lift at ME as the summit lift is a joke. Its very slow for a very short run. At LP I would replace NL, HG, and VD. Not necessarily in that order. If you did that people would tend to ski all areas of the mountain without it taking an inordinate amount of time to get there without over crowding the trails. Again, that's my opinion.

  12. #357

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    Howie: The lifts rot at the place. period. Wake up to the truth. Go ski an area with modern lifts and it would blow your mind. They run all the time, they do not constantly go down. You are so used to the lifts at the place you do not realize how bad they are. NR is ancient and rarely runs. Bravo ditto. HG is unchanged from when I went to high school in the valley in the late 70s early 80s. We all realize you love the bush, but the lifts are just in need of a lot of work.

  13. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by angler View Post
    Well, I think they need a new top to bottom lift at ME as the summit lift is a joke. Its very slow for a very short run. At LP I would replace NL, HG, and VD. Not necessarily in that order. If you did that people would tend to ski all areas of the mountain without it taking an inordinate amount of time to get there without over crowding the trails. Again, that's my opinion.
    you still havent said "why" they need to replace those lifts at LP. you do realize, that you're talking about several million dollars per lift. Its not something that is just done for the heck of it. I mean, if you got the cash, I'm sure we would all appreciate your donation of a new lift or two.

    as for the summit, yes its slower than molasses, but i dont see the need for a lift from the bottom to the summit. I'm perfectly content doing laps on the nrx and summit and not going all the way down to the base.

  14. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by ahm View Post
    Howie: The lifts rot at the place. period. Wake up to the truth. Go ski an area with modern lifts and it would blow your mind. They run all the time, they do not constantly go down. You are so used to the lifts at the place you do not realize how bad they are. NR is ancient and rarely runs. Bravo ditto. HG is unchanged from when I went to high school in the valley in the late 70s early 80s. We all realize you love the bush, but the lifts are just in need of a lot of work.
    first of all, I dont disagree that the lifts need work. Heavens gate in particular. but it is simply not true that the NRX is ancient and rarely runs. Aside from the one issue they had in December, it was running normally all season. and HG was installed in 1984 I believe. dont get me wrong, I would love for some benevolent billionaire to bequeath the mtn all new lifts. But in the real world, there is only so much that can be done financially and priorities must be set. I dont think it accomplishes anything to say the lifts suck, they need new lifts without any reasoning why the issues cant be resolved more economically. Frankly, I think the lift issues this season were more the result of the problems with the lift maintenance crews than the lifts themselves.

  15. #360
    From Killington GM:
    We spend several million dollars a year on what we call “maintenance capital”. The first priority every year is lift maintenance items that help keep the lifts running reliably.
    ..now if they could hire a few of K's lift mechanics....Howie is right, almost all lift issues were from inexperienced lift mechanics making problems worse except the wind holds and the HG comm line being ripped off by the wind to name a few exceptions.

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