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  1. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by angler View Post
    With modern technology is that still true?
    I'm going to have to stop and disagree with you right there. Have you ever rode up Inverness? That thing is a rocket. I cling to the rail for fear of getting flung off as it majestically crests the head wall. Terrifying.

    On a serious note though I don't know much about lifts. I kind of think of them a bit like rebuilding a car though (which I also don't know a ton about. ). You can choose to buy a new one or pick up a frame of an older one and throw whatever parts you want in it. In my mind we have the frame. We have a 1956 F100. A workhorse in it's time. But replacing with the same parts from 1956 is getting hard to do and hard to find. So why not throw a Chevy 700 R4 into it? Maybe replace a few other things. More expensive then maintaining the existing pieces that came with it, but less expensive then replacing the entire lift and structure. Comparing to a car rebuild is a good analogy too because older cars, and I imagine older lifts are easier to do since they don't have nearly the same electronics modern ones have.

    I agree with much of what Howie has said that we don't need more uphill capacity. Or at least not much more. Rebuilt lifts with some modern updates/parts would mean better reliability and possibly you could squeeze a little more speed out of them so the uphill capacity would increase a slight amount and make for shorter lift times when the hoards of quad packers descend upon us. But totally new lifts with much more capacity? Can you imagine more people on Deathspout on an icy day?

    Fixed grips in my mind seem to be the most resilient when it comes to ice and wind so please don't get rid of those. If I could think of a good place for it I'd love a few surface lifts. J Bar up Spillsville to cycle it anyone? That would be a fun ride up? Mind the down coming traffic.

    Where I part ways with Howie and think he is overworked and somehow delusional is his statement about Northridge being anywhere near reliable. I honestly cannot believe anyone could have this opinion. In my mind that is the worst lift on the mountain and should be replaced. Maybe I'm jaded from years of it breaking. Maybe that thing was Old Faithful this year, but I don't care. I don't trust it. It's trying to build up our confidence somehow so it can betray us later on an epic scale. Maybe it will start running backwards next time I get on it. No idea. It's just evil. Plus it's critical to skiing North much more than VHD is to skiing South. When it goes down North goes down in my mind. No point in being there.

  2. #377
    Someone brought up congestion on Birch. I totally agree. I think Lynx should be rethought. Birch is viewed as an "upper mountain" experience by intermediate skiers and is wrecked by noon by traffic and sun. Morningstar and Sunrise are underused, as those are tougher trails and there are better options at that level elsewhere on the mountain. The Lynx area would be better used if Sunrise were regularly groomed. It would then serve as a tougher version of Birch, likely attracting all levels of skiers, easing the Birch overload and more spreading out the mountain.

  3. #378

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Groton, MA and Warren, VT
    Posts
    124
    Increasing uphill capacity would be a side effect of new lifts, I agree. If the uphill traffic is too much for the existing trails, then maybe widening a few trails or (forgive me) cutting a couple of new trails might be a solution. North lynx is an example of a zone that seems to have potential for new trails. A loop around the bottleneck at the top of Birch run, or just widening the entrance would solve issues. The main part of Birch Run itself is enormous once you are past the split. Just two runs and the lift line, it seems like of a lot of mountain left to open up.

    Sugarbush has done a nice job of adding loads of tree skiing. But in my 25+ years at Sugarbush I can't recall one new groom-able trail being cut. I know, I know, National Forest...

  4. #379
    Cutting another trail to skiers left of Sunrise, a jester type work road trail would help but I'm not sure if that is in bear habitat. How about removing every other chair from NL to decrease the capacity a bit? it is a lot of people for 3 trails.

  5. #380
    Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Just ahead of you in the woods....
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    1,823
    Quote Originally Posted by angler View Post
    With modern technology is that still true?
    Yes it is. The issue with modern detachables is that they have way to many sensors that can get snafu'd. Also when the cable ices up, the chairs start to get mis-spaced. They actually slip and the spacing gets irregular. This sets off all kinds of bells and whistles. They can not load the chair until this gets corrected. They also have pressure and stress sensors that go off in the wind. It is not just a maintenance guy standing there at a tower that tells them to shut down. Fixed grips do not have a lot of this. They are much less sophisticated.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  6. #381

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Fayston VT/Needham MA
    Posts
    26
    I'm sure most who post on this board get this email from SB, but here is the early line on lift/snow making capex for the summer:

    The cash that is raised from spring pass sales goes into our summer capital account, and our first priority is lifts. Our team has presented me with a list of projects well beyond the significant normal preventative maintenance that we do each summer. They have identified slightly more than $1 million of mechanical and electrical upgrades to the following lifts: Super Bravo Express Quad, Gate House Express Quad, Heaven's Gate Triple, North Lynx Triple, North Ridge Express Quad, Summit Quad, and Sunshine Double. I have approved all of them. These upgrades should give us the reliability that we all expect. Additionally, we are proceeding with the permitting of a new Valley House lift. Timing will not allow installation this fall, but if we get our permits now we will be in a position to begin next spring. The fixed-grip quad we plan to install will triple the uphill capacity of Valley House and the ride itself will be considerably quicker.

    Additionally, we continue to do major upgrades to our snowmaking system. Although replacing pipe, rebuilding motors, and upgrading hydrants is not work that is very visible, it is nevertheless essential in keeping our system healthy and efficient. We will be investing approximately another $1 million in these mountain projects.
    Last edited by Spartan82; 04-11-2014 at 03:36 PM.

  7. #382
    I agree new trail on the left of sunrise. Also a trail on the right of jester. I think that would help. there should be a trail heading from sleeper to gondolier for skiers. It would be so much easier than heading behind the gate house to get to super bravo


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  8. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan82 View Post
    I'm sure most who post on this board get this email from SB, but here is the early line on lift/snow making capex for the summer:
    I don't think I've gotten the email yet. Interesting post. I'm kind of getting to the point where I agree that most of what needs to be said has been said already and there's no point in belaboring it any more. However I almost can't resist. I mean I truly have no idea what is required by a mountain to maintain for costs and if this is a little or a lot. I mean a lot of course to me if it was a discussion about maintaining my garden. No idea in relative terms. I also honestly appreciate Win writing and keeping us informed. He doesn't have to and I don't want to take away from that.

    It's just as soon as I read it I couldn't help but chuckle and think of Chris Rock's Bigger Badder Blacker where he says "I love people who say "I take CARE of my kids". You're supposed to! What do you want a cookie?". I'm not trying to be negative here though I'm afraid it can't help but come across as so, but in any case maybe someone else who's seen it might laugh. Tell me you can't hear him saying it in your head now?

  9. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by MntMan4Bush View Post
    I'm going to have to stop and disagree with you right there. Have you ever rode up Inverness? That thing is a rocket. I cling to the rail for fear of getting flung off as it majestically crests the head wall. Terrifying.

    On a serious note though I don't know much about lifts. I kind of think of them a bit like rebuilding a car though (which I also don't know a ton about. ). You can choose to buy a new one or pick up a frame of an older one and throw whatever parts you want in it. In my mind we have the frame. We have a 1956 F100. A workhorse in it's time. But replacing with the same parts from 1956 is getting hard to do and hard to find. So why not throw a Chevy 700 R4 into it? Maybe replace a few other things. More expensive then maintaining the existing pieces that came with it, but less expensive then replacing the entire lift and structure. Comparing to a car rebuild is a good analogy too because older cars, and I imagine older lifts are easier to do since they don't have nearly the same electronics modern ones have.

    I agree with much of what Howie has said that we don't need more uphill capacity. Or at least not much more. Rebuilt lifts with some modern updates/parts would mean better reliability and possibly you could squeeze a little more speed out of them so the uphill capacity would increase a slight amount and make for shorter lift times when the hoards of quad packers descend upon us. But totally new lifts with much more capacity? Can you imagine more people on Deathspout on an icy day?

    Fixed grips in my mind seem to be the most resilient when it comes to ice and wind so please don't get rid of those. If I could think of a good place for it I'd love a few surface lifts. J Bar up Spillsville to cycle it anyone? That would be a fun ride up? Mind the down coming traffic.

    Where I part ways with Howie and think he is overworked and somehow delusional is his statement about Northridge being anywhere near reliable. I honestly cannot believe anyone could have this opinion. In my mind that is the worst lift on the mountain and should be replaced. Maybe I'm jaded from years of it breaking. Maybe that thing was Old Faithful this year, but I don't care. I don't trust it. It's trying to build up our confidence somehow so it can betray us later on an epic scale. Maybe it will start running backwards next time I get on it. No idea. It's just evil. Plus it's critical to skiing North much more than VHD is to skiing South. When it goes down North goes down in my mind. No point in being there.
    I'll stand by my thoughts about the nrx. It was horrible up to about 3 seasons ago, but since then i haven't noticed any issues except for the problem at the beginning of the season. My son was over at Ellen almost every weekend day this season and he says it was running fine. I will say, that the rickety way the chair comes around the wheel does not inspire confidence, but i think it's bad reputation is more a consequence of its past poor performance than it's current status.

  10. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan82 View Post
    I'm sure most who post on this board get this email from SB, but here is the early line on lift/snow making capex for the summer:

    The cash that is raised from spring pass sales goes into our summer capital account, and our first priority is lifts. Our team has presented me with a list of projects well beyond the significant normal preventative maintenance that we do each summer. They have identified slightly more than $1 million of mechanical and electrical upgrades to the following lifts: Super Bravo Express Quad, Gate House Express Quad, Heaven's Gate Triple, North Lynx Triple, North Ridge Express Quad, Summit Quad, and Sunshine Double. I have approved all of them. These upgrades should give us the reliability that we all expect. Additionally, we are proceeding with the permitting of a new Valley House lift. Timing will not allow installation this fall, but if we get our permits now we will be in a position to begin next spring. The fixed-grip quad we plan to install will triple the uphill capacity of Valley House and the ride itself will be considerably quicker.



    Additionally, we continue to do major upgrades to our snowmaking system. Although replacing pipe, rebuilding motors, and upgrading hydrants is not work that is very visible, it is nevertheless essential in keeping our system healthy and efficient. We will be investing approximately another $1 million in these mountain projects.
    There you have it. Doing what needs to be done. I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty confident they'll get the lift situation sorted out. Then we can get back to complaining about the snowmaking.

    Looking forward to some sweet spring turns this weekend.

  11. #386
    The NRX had that issue early season, but afterward it performed pretty smoothly. There were the occasional maintenance holds, but most were cleared up within a couple minutes and reloading shortly thereafter. I hope the upgrades and maintenance perform up to par.

    Shady, not to nitpick, as there are very few mountains with mid mountain high speeds, but Pico is similar in size to ME, albeit shorter, and it boasts an HSQ to the true summit, even though that is nearly 600' shorter than ME.

  12. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Delaware ? View Post
    The NRX had that issue early season, but afterward it performed pretty smoothly. There were the occasional maintenance holds, but most were cleared up within a couple minutes and reloading shortly thereafter. I hope the upgrades and maintenance perform up to par.

    Shady, not to nitpick, as there are very few mountains with mid mountain high speeds, but Pico is similar in size to ME, albeit shorter, and it boasts an HSQ to the true summit, even though that is nearly 600' shorter than ME.
    The high speed at pico appears to be similar to north ridge.


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  13. #388

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    waiting for winter :(
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    There you have it. Doing what needs to be done. I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty confident they'll get the lift situation sorted out. Then we can get back to complaining about the snowmaking.

    Looking forward to some sweet spring turns this weekend.
    I have to hand it to you, you're the eternal optimist! That why you need me in your life to balance you out! Not sure if thats a lot of money to spend on a mountain or not but it sure sounds like a lot. Hope you are right! I guess we will have to wait till next year to see. Not sure what we are going to argue about till then?
    Any

  14. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Orca the problem with high speed detachables are that they are highly susceptible to weather. Wind and Ice can shut them down much faster than a fixed grip. I have to agree with the statement that a large increased capacity at much of the areas at this mountain would be a bad thing. VH is the one place that could use an upgrade.
    My understanding is that modern high-speed detachables are designed and installed to be much more tolerant to high winds. The lifts have more sophisticated sensors with auto-slow and auto-stop functions and, depending on design, heavier chairs and lower towers. There is some interesting information and links to various chairlift videos at: http://www.skilifts.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=9793. A liftie speaks and has a video of running the Snowmass Villiage Express (VX) in winds up to 60 mph.

  15. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    I'll stand by my thoughts about the nrx. It was horrible up to about 3 seasons ago, but since then i haven't noticed any issues except for the problem at the beginning of the season. My son was over at Ellen almost every weekend day this season and he says it was running fine. I will say, that the rickety way the chair comes around the wheel does not inspire confidence, but i think it's bad reputation is more a consequence of its past poor performance than it's current status.
    Well you are probably right about bad reputation. To be honest I didn't get to north much this year and I did state that my opinion might be based on being jaded from prior experiences. This year it may have been fine after the initial issue early on. I'll defer to you on that. As for the last 3 seasons it being fine.....well I'll disagree here.

    It is nice to see Win spending money on the lifts. As mentioned it seems like a lot, but I can't help but wonder that maybe if they were maintained properly all along then it wouldn't be so much now. I certainly don't feel sorry for him nor am I cheering out loud over it. Barring the VH replacement, maintaining your lifts so they run properly and replacing motors and pipe for snow making so they actually work is the bare minimum. C+. I mean no one is carrying me on their shoulders because I change my oil every 3,000 miles.

    It's the spring though. The sun is out. The snow is soft. I'll try and get back on a positive track because shortly I'll be slicing golf balls into the woods and swatting black flies on the trails. I'll leave with a "I take CARE of my kids....." to sum up my thoughts on this.

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