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  1. #271
    gostan's Avatar
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    Feb 2007
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    Angler & Howie

    You two need to PM each other and make some plans to ski together before the end of this season.

    Although I am more in the "Howie" camp, maybe then the incessant and repetitive "tit for tat" responses that have caused many of us to flee this forum, can come to a halt. Every response does not warrant a counter response, or to put it another way, every "punch" does not warrant a "counter punch". Sorry, I could not resist.

    Enjoy the last month of the season, whether you were satisfied or dissatisfied..
    Stan

    "There's No Cure For Life"

  2. #272
    Hawk's Avatar
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    Stan, you are always so pleasant. I envision your life as a fun place. Keep the positive vibe going. Maybe you will convert me yet.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  3. #273

    Join Date
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    Ice Coast
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    Thanks so much guys!

    Howie, Hawk, Angler, MMFB, and all the others that have posted on this thread, your posts have made for fantastic reading and laughing since the time this first appeared. Keep it up and remember.......................lifts are not necessary for skiing. Sometimes leaving the mechanized world of skiing, especially on weekends, can give you a new POV......................lifts are great................as long as they work when you are using them. Enjoy the spring.........and the turns both on and far away from the lifts.........a shot from Janet's cabin between Cooper and Vail..........no lifts were on wind hold or used for this picture
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Fourwide View Post

    I can't imagine why Win would disclose operating results that didn't include Saturdays.

    Anyway, has anyone demo'd the new Taylormade SLDR driver?
    I'm not sure how else I can explain to you what I mean, but one short go of it.

    His numbers did include Saturdays as well as all other days. If total days to date was down 5% it could be because fewer people were skiing on Sundays and Weekdays then years prior even while skier visits on Saturdays could be up hence why many of us felt crowded on Saturdays.

    Oh well.

    As for the new Taylor Made Driver it slices horribly to the right. Though that could just be me.

  5. #275
    So replace the lifts because they are crowded in the base area when the trails are 80% open and no off piste? Replace 2 high speed quads with, two high speed quads? Or two high speed 6-packs and cut a new lift line to where? Then the complaining would be too many people on the trails... Just maintain the lifts with experienced people and they will be fine. Sure would be nice if gondola cars could go on Slide Brook when I want to ride it, but I like North being quiet....

  6. #276
    MM4B wrote: "I'm not sure how else I can explain to you what I mean, but one short go of it.
    His numbers did include Saturdays as well as all other days. If total days to date was down 5% it could be because fewer people were skiing on Sundays and Weekdays then years prior even while skier visits on Saturdays could be up hence why many of us felt crowded on Saturdays.

    Oh well."

    OK, that's possible. We'd obviously need the Saturday skier breakout and the quadpack use breakout. Unfortunately, I'm too exhausted of this convo to wait for that! I'll instead take the easy way out and blame George W. Bush.


    "As for the new Taylor Made Driver it slices horribly to the right. Though that could just be me." Strengthen your grip, close your stance and finish your swing!

  7. #277

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    It's not about the lifts. It's about the Quad packs. Stop selling them or increase the price point so that they don't cripple the mtn and the problem is solved. It's that easy and was the original point of this post!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dblshot View Post
    So replace the lifts because they are crowded in the base area when the trails are 80% open and no off piste? Replace 2 high speed quads with, two high speed quads? Or two high speed 6-packs and cut a new lift line to where? Then the complaining would be too many people on the trails... Just maintain the lifts with experienced people and they will be fine. Sure would be nice if gondola cars could go on Slide Brook when I want to ride it, but I like North being quiet....
    Last edited by Chewbarka; 04-02-2014 at 03:11 PM.

  8. #278
    gostan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewbarka View Post
    It's not about the lifts. It's about the Quad packs. Stop selling them or increase the price point so that they don't cripple the mtn and the problem is solved. It's that easy and was the original point of this post!
    Win and his partners are running a private business and are entitled to sell whatever ticket packages at whatever price they so determine. If they ever go public, I guess we can all then have some kind of minority voice at the annual shareholder meeting.



    I really doubt that they would ever stop selling Quad Packs because they of obviously make money on them, especially on the unused QP tickets and they also bring in a bunch of cash early in the season, when they need the $$.

    As many have said, Saturdays are a good day to ski Slidebrook. And, I think that Saturdays are crazy busy at most ski areas.
    Last edited by gostan; 04-02-2014 at 03:38 PM.
    Stan

    "There's No Cure For Life"

  9. #279
    Being around all of the time it is easy for me to judge how busy it is. I think there are some folks too busy stuffing a breakfast sammie down on the drive to the hill to notice how busy it is on Saturday compared to years past, maybe not. They have filled the lots to Miguel's on many Saturdays. When you see the red flag it means most emplotees park at the Inn. Several records were broken this year according to reports I recieved. The mountain Monday through Thursday has been more empty the past 5 or 6 years in any time in the past 30, possibly due to a combo of poor midweek packages, a weak chamber of commerce, changing demographics or all of the above.
    The biggest problem with the quad pack is its 7 day unrestricted useability. This gives away your premire dates [Saturday and holiday weekends] at a fire sale price. If the stats of the average skier skiing 5 days a year holds true, it would make sense a large majority of these skiers would ski Saturday or a holiday weekend. When you can put together a prime time ski day for family and or friends at $39 off the rack rate what do you think happens? There is no other option for such cheap skiing at any major resort in the area. It does bring in a lot of in state day skiers that may or may not buy some gas or an energy bar along the way.
    The other side effect of this Saturday Shitshow is money left on the table. What money you ask? The money folks would spend if they could get a seat in the lodge or service in the dismally cramped basement that is the Caslerock pub. Overfilling the resort on Saturdays is not the best way to gleen the walllets of the visitors. North may be an option for some but it is so run down over there that in this day and age who really wants to go there. It's like that restaurant that was "the place" when you were in college that hasn't changed since and your teenage kids cringe when you mention it. People expect more these days when a tray of food is in their hands.
    It would also help to move at least half of the blazer programs to north to cut down on traffic at south, if it's so empty over there and most skiers don't want to go, move the ones that have no choice.

    Approx 65,000 vert the last 2 days on FLAT corn slopes, ski on all day long= midweek bliss.

    Gonna rain this weekend, have fun.

  10. #280

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    Quote Originally Posted by gostan View Post
    Win and his partners are running a private business and are entitled to sell whatever ticket packages at whatever price they so determine. If they ever go public, I guess we can all then have some kind of minority voice at the annual shareholder meeting.

    I really doubt that they would ever stop selling Quad Packs because they of obviously make money on them, especially on the unused QP tickets and they also bring in a bunch of cash early in the season, when they need the $$.

    As many have said, Saturdays are a good day to ski Slidebrook. And, I think that Saturdays are crazy busy at most ski areas.
    I agree with you. With that being said I believe in Chewbarka's case (and others as well) the issue is having all those people coming to the mountain on a Saturday creating a shit show. If you are a weekend warrior you drive 2 to 4 hours to get to the resort Friday night then Saturday is a shit show which only leaves Sunday. Most people don't stay the whole day as they have a long ride home before getting ready for work Monday morning. So the weekend is cut short from a skiing experience and is not as fun as it use to be. So these people feel ripped off especially if you are a loyal season pass holder. Its hard to believe the quad packs have not increased the weekend use as these problems did not exist before the quad pack. If anyone skied the mountain before and after the inception of this program they would have to see the difference unless they are in denial. So if your going to keep the program (and I understand why they would!) you need to figure out how to handle the crowds. That is where the rubber meets the road.

  11. #281
    I have personally only been riding at Sugarbush for one season, and my take on this is that Lincoln Peak on weekends used to mirror what Mt. Ellen looks like now. I stick to ME on most weekends for that reason. There's hardly a lift line, they have solid terrain, and most of it is serviced by high speed lifts. The lodge there definitely gets crowded, but since I hardly use it, it isn't a problem. Whenever I have visitors, I point them there on Saturday and LP on Sunday. Seems to work for them.

    The reality of the situation, is that if crowds were THAT light at LP in years past, you were spoiled. Every resort I have ridden at from PA to NY to VT to NH to ME, has been a zoo on weekends. It's the status quot. Lift lines often average 15 minutes on weekends. It's just the reality of the ski business 95% of places. I understand you were spoiled and that you want the skier visits of old with the infrastructure of new, but that isn't a winning recipe. I like to look on the bright side of things, and when it comes to crowds, ME seems to be the weekend substitute.

    I know the lifts have been difficult everywhere, and that's a large portion of the problem, especially since it seems many of them have been down on weekends. We can only trust Win at his word and hope it gets better.

    Finally, enjoy spring. The season will come to a close far too soon.

  12. #282
    Wow! Quite the discussion. I was stuck working all day.

    It would be nice if someone with the facts could chime in about the quad pack issue.

    As for lp being as quiet as mt Ellen before the quad packs, I don't think that was the case. It wasn't that quiet. But again my recollection is that the first year of the quad packs wasn't like this season. And IMHO, the issue this season wasn't the quad packs. They are a red herring. But it is certainly possible that overall skier visits were down, while Saturdays were up. I just don't see the reason why that would be.

    As far as the parking on Saturday, I get there before 8:30 at the latest so maybe I just don't see the bigger crowds. But with regard to that situation, I can't understand why they don't connect the warren house to the 22 acre lot, and open the d lot to enter from the access road so as to relieve the traffic on the access road

    As for mt Ellen, the facilities over there desperately need some love. I heard that there is a sewer capacity issue and any building or renovation would necessitate a large and expensive upgrade to bring the facilities up to code.
    As for lp, they need more facilities, specifically bar and cafeteria space. I assume they plan on getting that from the valley house. I'm no architect, but it looks like it wouldn't be that involved to expand the existing structure. And if done right (preferably with a real fireplace) could be a nice place to eat or drink with a view of the slopes which the gatehouse doesn't have. Of course, we can't expect all these things at once although it would be nice to hear what the plans are moving forward.

  13. #283
    Wasn't the Gate House originally supposed to have an extra floor? Could they add that on?

    Secondly, I believe ME still operates on a septic and pump system, not sewer and water. Therefore, if the facilities increased, those would have to as well. Win stated before that there is significant potential for development there, but only after Rice Brook is completed. With 4 more phases and x amount of units to go, that won't be any time soon. I have to assume that ME won't get those base upgrades until a master plan is complete, Rice Brook is complete, and a central sewer and water system is built to maximize ME development.

  14. #284
    Hawk's Avatar
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    This piece from Go Figure is exactly my perception of how it has become. I am a weekend person for the most part. Every weekend from opening to closing, 5 or 6 Friday ski clubs, Christmas & New years Week and every powder day and sick day my work can stomach. The lines over the last 10 years have gone from basically non existent(OK maybe a 5 or 10 minute wait at Peak) to what we have now(Sometimes 20 to 30 minutes but 15 is common on Saturday). There may have been a hand full of weekends like Presidents and Martin Luther that the cars went down the road. This year this happened every weekend for a good stretch. That is Fact not Fiction. My condo looks out at the hill and I can clearly see the lots and the base so I not speculating. Seeing the lots fill is a great motivator to get the hell out early. We call it "FOC" (Fear of Crowds) We kid each other as we drink coffee each morning saying - We need to get the FOC out there. 8-(
    QUOTE=Go Figure;223363]Being around all of the time it is easy for me to judge how busy it is. I think there are some folks too busy stuffing a breakfast sammie down on the drive to the hill to notice how busy it is on Saturday compared to years past, maybe not. They have filled the lots to Miguel's on many Saturdays. When you see the red flag it means most emplotees park at the Inn. Several records were broken this year according to reports I recieved. The mountain Monday through Thursday has been more empty the past 5 or 6 years in any time in the past 30, possibly due to a combo of poor midweek packages, a weak chamber of commerce, changing demographics or all of the above.
    The biggest problem with the quad pack is its 7 day unrestricted useability. This gives away your premire dates [Saturday and holiday weekends] at a fire sale price. If the stats of the average skier skiing 5 days a year holds true, it would make sense a large majority of these skiers would ski Saturday or a holiday weekend. When you can put together a prime time ski day for family and or friends at $39 off the rack rate what do you think happens? There is no other option for such cheap skiing at any major resort in the area. It does bring in a lot of in state day skiers that may or may not buy some gas or an energy bar along the way.
    The other side effect of this Saturday Shitshow is money left on the table. What money you ask? The money folks would spend if they could get a seat in the lodge or service in the dismally cramped basement that is the Caslerock pub. Overfilling the resort on Saturdays is not the best way to gleen the walllets of the visitors. North may be an option for some but it is so run down over there that in this day and age who really wants to go there. It's like that restaurant that was "the place" when you were in college that hasn't changed since and your teenage kids cringe when you mention it. People expect more these days when a tray of food is in their hands.
    It would also help to move at least half of the blazer programs to north to cut down on traffic at south, if it's so empty over there and most skiers don't want to go, move the ones that have no choice.

    Approx 65,000 vert the last 2 days on FLAT corn slopes, ski on all day long= midweek bliss.

    Gonna rain this weekend, have fun.[/QUOTE]
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  15. #285
    Here are my thoughts, for what it's worth.

    I've lost most of the respect that I had for Win based upon his comment to Angler on this board. I get that angler pisses people off but I also get his level of frustration. For Win to act like a petulant little child with his comments on a public forum say alot about where his head is at and probably explain the current state of affairs on moutain.

    To those that think all is well, so be it. From what I know, I don't have the same positive outlook but I'm still buying a pass for next year. The reality is that lift operations are in shambles. North and South function as almost independent operations and rookie mistakes keep getting made. My guess is these mistakes are contributing factors in bringing down the lifts. Replacing lifts won't solve the issues. I don't know how SB got to this point, I have heard rumors but no facts as to what happened to the department.

    As for my take on the Quad Packs and other specials, I have to wonder is these specials are a way to get a quick cash infusion to meet debt load. Win mentioned the $50mil that was invested and a good portion of that is going to be debt. One doesn't have to go far back in time or even leave the state to know the familiar pattern of ski areas that try and develop and can't service their debt, heck that's how the current owners got SB. Hope I'm wrong but this wouldn't be the first time where owners over extend and skimp on mountain operations beginning the downward spiral.

    Like I mentioned previously, I am getting a pass by the May deadline for next year. I want the mountain to suceed, when it's running smoothly it's a great mountain. If you think the lift issues this year aren't going to impact the mountain next year, I think you are sadly mistaken. There is an impact locally and on tourists. A friend get's a pass through the shop he works at. This is the first year and last year at SB as they are returning to Stowe next year. I know we can look at statistics that show lifts are running most of the time but the reality is lifts going down has become the running joke among locals and industry personnel. This has an impact when an industry employee is asked for a recommendation on where to ski. As for tourists, a person that I know thorugh work came up with friends for a long weekend when south was having issues with bravo and HG. They had an ok weekend but this was the first time in years the group had been to sugarbush and they won't be returning anytime soon due to the lifts. When you're traveling, why go to SB and hope the lifts are running when you can go to Stowe or Killington? This is a sentiment that I have heard more than once sharing a chair with people having their trip impacted by lifts being down for maintenance.

    I really hope SB can recover from the lift issues this season. The late winter snow certainly helped improve skier moral. I can only imagine the comments that Win is getting from those that have invested hundred's of thousands in slopeside real estate. Us dirtbag locals just post on message boards with a limited audience. My experience is those that invest that heavily into a vacation unit have a certain level of expectations and usually aren't shy about complaining directly to ownership.

    Sorry about the long rant. Hope Win lets my pass purchase go through for next year

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