SB Snowmaking has begun?

[jwt]

There were midwinter conditions at K-Mart, guns blazing, and soft snow everywhere. For $69 I'm easy. Might be a pass holder , but unlike marriage, I can sleep around w/out consequences.

[win]

There were midwinter conditions at K-Mart, guns blazing, and soft snow everywhere. For $69 I'm easy. Might be a pass holder , but unlike marriage, I can sleep around w/out consequences.

If snow was being made at Killington today, the temperatures had to be very different than what we saw at Sugarbush today.

[HowieT2]

[QUOTE=SkiVideoGuy;116493]Saw a post today on FB from Stowe about their purchase of 325 HKD snowguns and the output they got yesterday. Stowe gets more snow on average every year already. Now they have 325 of these super efficient guns. It seems the gap in snowmaking prowess is growing between Sugarbush and Stowe. Killington seems to have awoken from their slumber with new management. Jay/Burke is becoming a monster. The SB long range plan does not exist in a vacuum. Other mountains do things that warrant a response. Demand for RiceBrook is a decision by someone to commit to the MRV or commit to Stowe or Jay/Burke or K. Snowmaking is part of that decision if they plan on spending time at their vacation home for Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Maybe we can't get more water up the hill right now but perhaps these guns can make more snow with a given amount of water or make more snow than the existing guns at a given wet bulb temp? I'm by no means an expert in snow tech but from PA, it seems that others are pulling away in terms of ability to lay down the white. I don't know how many HKD's SB has or where they are permanently mounted but maybe it's time to outfit the slopes that are priority for early season with these babies.

You guys up there on site can sift through the marketing hype better than I from 6 hours away. With no snowmaking this week, maybe somebody up there could ski SB and Stowe and report in on a comparison of the snow.

What do you guys think?[/QUOTE
]

I think sb invested in hkd guns some years ago. They are all over. The snologic guns that sb bought last year are much more efficient than the hkd guns and more expensive. I think Win addressed this earlier in this thread.

[HowieT2]

There were midwinter conditions at K-Mart, guns blazing, and soft snow everywhere. For $69 I'm easy. Might be a pass holder , but unlike marriage, I can sleep around w/out consequences.

Just as long as you dont come back with any desease.

Assume you were referring to yesterday. It was 40f when i got up this morning. Ran errands and stacked wood.

[win]

Yes. We did invest in some HKDs a couple of years ago. Everyone is now focused on making better low E guns, so we will continue to invest in more in future years. I think everyone saw what the Snowlogics can do when they get to stage 5 and use only 5CFM.

[boze]

Yes. We did invest in some HKDs a couple of years ago. Everyone is now focused on making better low E guns, so we will continue to invest in more in future years. I think everyone saw what the Snowlogics can do when they get to stage 5 and use only 5CFM.

Gotta love that, snologics running at "stage 5"
Sounds like "ludicrous speed" from Space Balls
Bring on the cold...

[shadyjay]

Friday night we had the logics running on max... step 6. In a matter of a few hours, a huge pile was created on the back side of Gate House lodge. The amount of snow they put out is quite impressive in cold temps, especially with how little air they use.

[HowieT2]

This one goes to 11.

[MntMan4Bush]

JWT was probably referring to Saturday with regard to Killington. I was also there also and they were blasting snow. Superstar had a gun every 5 to 10 feet and it was like I was in a snow globe in addition to the natural stuff (albeit not huge accumulations, but nice dressings) coming down. The snow that was being made was light and piling up into nice bumps that felt and skied like natural snow.

Say what you want about natural vs man made, but when it is made right it skis very well. I know SB can't keep up with Killington for the number of trails open and pure snow making power, but I think the quality of snow making is just better there. I don't know how many times I've come around a corner with a wet gun blasting me in the face or spraying out water and it's in the teens at the Bush.

I skied opening day at SB and OG was down right dangerous. I've never seen snow made into such a sheet of ice. A little fluff on the extreme edges, but by noon it was unedgeable glass. Of course smiles were on everyone's faces as we were out skiing and why gripe to the nice greeters and lifties. It's not their fault so when they ask how my day is going it's always "great". However let's be honest with what we are skiing on and put the excitement of being outside and seeing cold weather friends again.

I will say that I skied SB on Sunday and it was really nice. The snow was corn soft, but it was unfortunately due to the weather more than anything else. Reports from friends who skied at SB on Saturday as opposed to K Mart indicated Saturday was good, but I'll put money on the fact that Killington was better. In fact I did as a season pass holder going south. I don't enjoy an extra hour drive in the AM when I'm 10 minutes from SB or shelling out money for a ticket, but me and quite a few other SB pass holders did and have been doing so for sometime. Now it may not seem like such a loss to SB since we already have a pass, but there is some lost revenue in food and beverage happening I'm sure.

So you don't have to have 30 or 40 trails open like Killington. We get you don't have the same revenue coming in. I was happy to see OG and Jester open for opening day, but how about a little more attention to the quality of the snow coming out. I don't know what it takes, but I've seen good snow making and I feel we are behind in that department. Sorry. Been reading this thread too long now and not saying anything, but had to voice my opinion and while a few people sitting on the Superstar chair with me may keep quiet, they were anything but as we were driving down to the dreaded south.

[gostan]

The snow quality at SB last Saturday was fabulous. Sure, the MT reported 6 inches Thursday night, but I found it was mostly man made and the skiing was fun. The whales were a blast. Upper OG was a completely different animal than it was on opening day, as it was winched and skied about as good as one could ask for. I do agree that OG was a nightmare on opening day, but since nobody can remember when SB was open top to bottom prior to Thanksgiving, I opted to enjoy the positives and ignore the negatives. No doubt, There is always someplace better, especially early season. Enjoy your forays down South to Killington! I opt for Stowe when I desire a different experience early season. Or, I get on a winged vehicle. Variety definitely makes one's ski season more interesting.

[HowieT2]

fwiw-Win mentioned that SB blew 50 million gallons of water in november. I read on another site from someone with knowledge at stowe that they blew 100 million gallons. just sayin'

[Hawk]

I guess when you are constantly fed bread and water, a hot dog is awsome. So when you get to finally try the Filet Mignon, you will then all understand. Expectations have finnally been sufficiently lowered so the masses will not rebel. I have to hand it to them, they do great marketing.

[HowieT2]

I don't understand why we keep going in circles. I think we have established the facts here pretty well. Sugarbush does not have the snowmaking firepower there is elsewhere. We should be thankful we have snowmaking, even if it isn't the best and most powerful. The pass holders at MRG likely won't see much open before Christmas unless they are very lucky. SB was open t2b on opening day. Who knows the last time they were t2b opening day.

It is also very apparent that management wants to stick with the current approach of putting down a solid base, and then allowing mother nature to take its course. I think we all realize that more snowmaking increases are going to be necessary, but for the time being, management still seems to like this approach, and so far, their approach has seemed to work. People continue to come to Sugarbush, continue to invest in second homes, and until last year, Sugarbush had seen steady increases in skier visits. I am 100% with all of you that dislike having to go somewhere else because the SB early season offering isn't necessarily up to par with other areas. I am also 100% certain that the management hates to see that people are going elsewhere with their business, even if they have already received their revenue from them in the form of a season pass. Unfortunately, I think it comes down to what is ultimately best for the majority, not the minority. That leaves us hardcore skiers and riders in the minority. Once again, I'm not saying that its acceptable, just that its a fact.

We just need to look at what is realistic, and what is not. Is there something we would all like to see? Is there always going to be something to complain about? Absolutely. I think that changes to the mountain, its ideology, and its infrastructure, are directly related to the weather. If we continue to see winters where the snow doesn't fall before Christmas, and they struggle to have a profitable season because they missed out on crucial revenue because everyone else went somewhere else with a greater offering, I think we will see a change in the snowmaking system and plan. Until then, it is unlikely that anything will change along those lines. There will still be the yearly upgrades, but not the huge capital project that is necessary to boost the system.

All that being said, the best way to offer a better surface on the terrain that is open, is clearly grooming. I know that all groomers and their operators are not created equal, but for another pass or two, done by a skilled operator, you can easily increase the longevity and quality of the skiing surface. I still haven't been fortunate enough to make it to SB this season while they have been open since obligations have kept me elsewhere, but if the snow surface is lacking in quality, not quantity, that should be one of the easier situations to remedy without a significant increase in operating costs.

welcome to skimrv. we do this every season. it will end when they get north lynx open and we are all exhausted from skiing the whole mountain.

[Hawk]

A couple of things that I think you miss the mark with:
- In the end I realize that they will do what they do. This is my opinion and is constructive criticism based on my observations. These opinions come from watching a little known area go from a local’s only place to one of the biggest and widely visited areas in the east. I will not relocate anywhere else because of this "Flaw" in their philosophy as snowmaking is not the reason I came here. I just see something that can make this place so much better for the general skiing population.
- Grooming is not the answer for better surfaces especially when it rains on them. You have to resurface with new snow.
- People understand that the quality of the Snowmaking here is not that good. I know this because I have many skier friends (100+) at different mountains that refuse to come here or have stopped coming because of this. The common line is, "I will see you when it snows".
- The increased skier visits are a product of good marketing, good winters (sans last winter), great service and a great new village that got a lot of Press coverage. I would bet this has reached its peak.
- Snow quality it what brings new people and keeps them coming and hard core people are not the driving force for snow making. It's the beginner/Intermediates that love smooth silky blues.
- Snowmaking is Key to quick recovery and continuous great conditions. Our conditions this year have been OK but not that great comparatively. I’m not saying to open everything all at once and just pound the snow out. I am saying blow key trails and keep them pristine. Just a little faster and better. Not an enormous upgrade but a moderate one that gives us the ability to get it done nicely. It is the only thing that Sugarbush lacks to be the greatest.
- In the end that is what separates us and keeps us from getting over the hump. I love it here and relocated here for the snow from the sky, but refuse to stick my head in the sand. Saying we opened top to bottom day one is a joke. It was cold early this year and others did it better, with more trails and better conditions. Day ticket sales that could have paid for the snowmaking went to other places because no one expects SB to have good snowmaking. We need to change that perception to grow the resort to where management wants it. Frilly lodging and base lodges are not going to do that.
And you are right. No more going in circles. That will be my last piece on this subject.....this year. See you on the slopes dudes and dudets.

Look I love this place and only want what is best. If you said that you don't understand the value of snowmaking then fine. I can understand that people that have not seen it and watched the effect of it over time would not understand.

[MntMan4Bush]

The reason we keep going in circles is because much like Nascar this place is a circular track. We keep coming back year after year. Get used to it. It doesn't mean that we can't continue to voice our issues and concerns. I've given up on the argument that they don't blow as much as Killington, Sunday River or many other places. We don't have the infrastructure or the money to spend like they do. Sure I get that.

However as I thumbed through my last issue of SB Magazine I read through the article on how great the snow making was at SB and how well trained the team is and the quality of the snow they make. That is where I am calling BS and to me that's something that can be fixed with minimal investment. I.e. Learn to use the gear you have. Sure buying some more fan guns would be great, but when I ski down and see a snow maker walk by a gun that looks like a garden hose spraying water and not doing anything then I start to question the system as a whole. At Killington they have teams going up and down the lines all day long making adjustments. At SB we drag hoses from one place to the next, set it up, spray and walk away.I'm sure people check the line (or say they do) but I don't see how sometimes when there's a gun aimed at the woods glazing a tree and no one's doing anything about it for hours at a time.

As for the argument about being top to bottom this year. Good job SB. I'm happy that they were able to get it, but rather than comparing it to prior years let's compare it to other mountains which is a real litmus test. When you only look at previous years then weather plays as much a factor as anything else. When you look at other mountains you get a level playing field with weather.