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  1. #31
    Hawk's Avatar
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    A solid week of blowing and they haven't even covered 1 trail top to bottom. Even with the new guns. BUY the new compressors and upgrade the pipe going up the mountain! At least on one run.

    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Delaware ? View Post
    I've got a little bit of an update today, but nothing super spectacular. Got out to check on conditions again at around 2 today. Went to Lincoln Peak first. Same story as yesterday except they lit up an extra gun or two behind the VH Lodge near the bottom of the VH Double. You can see the amount of snow they made compared to yesterday in the pic below. Forecast was calling for temps at 38 today, but it never got above 30 at the base. As I drove away from the mountain it appeared that they were making snow on Downspout to connect to the HG Triple. I couldn't see it from the base because its just behind the ridge line. You'll see some snow in the foreground on the concrete from where a ramp was set for some urban jibbing earlier in the day.



    Headed over to Mount Ellen afterward. Base temp was about the same. Guns still going on Inverness, but I couldn't see any additional snowmaking. Coverage was still spotty in some areas, but they definitely made some good progress overnight. It looks like there aren't many snow guns on in the picture below, but it's the flat light. It is still t2b on Inverness. The second picture is on Inverness and shows two men earning their turns. You can see them below the snow mobile that was being used by the snowmaking crew.





    I'll try to get some pictures at SB tomorrow, but I'll be heading down to Killington for some lift served turns, so don't be disappointed if I can't make it happen.
    keep the updates coming. they are great.

    note the 2 idle guns by the super bravo.

    fwiw-i'm going on 11 days without power and could really use to ski, soon.

  3. #33
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    Blowing snow behind the VH lodge has to mean that the plan is to come down Coffee Run from Lower Downspout if/when they get there.

    But, yeah, buy the new compressors and on-mountain pipe, please. This is agonizingly slow.

    Now Stowe, Okemo, and the Loaf opening up, either to the public or at least for passholders.

  4. #34

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    Stowe opening Saturday.

  5. #35
    It might be to late to open before November 17 the staff are not ready to operate the mountain.

  6. #36
    Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Delaware ? View Post
    As for opening early and snowmaking, I am a huge proponent of early openings, but I also understand that sometimes it isn't their niche market. An opening of Nov 17 is definitely acceptable and is in the ballpark of other mountains who aren't in the extreme early season game like Killington or Sunday River. However, I would assume that if they had as much time as they did with around the clock temps, they should be able to open T2B when they actually open. I think it was two years ago when they had 8 trails open at the top and were still downloading. That shouldn't be necessary. Otherwise, I am perfectly happy with the later opening date. Lets be honest, mid November is not that late of an opening. I think that sometimes our jonesing gets the best of our reasoning.
    It's all a matter of perception. If you are used to the start of the Ski season being in mid Nov. then that is early. I have skied in October for most of my years. I count on it. No crowds, usually it is soft and bumpy and all my regular hard core friends are there. There are no masses of beginner skiers crowding the slopes and the fun spills into the après just like late season. I enjoy it greatly. I have t get it into my thick head that it will never happen here. They just don't get it/understand it. So I go to SR and ski with my old friends every year and spend the money. This weekend they will have 3 separate top t bottom runs and 2 lifts. The report from my peeps is that rock skis are not required and it is like mid-winter. That is my perception.
    Now people from this site will always throw out the company line about “it doesn’t make financial sense” or “I don’t like the early season white ribbon of death” but they just don’t understand. There is a benefit. It’s that perception thing. When considering a place to make home, the snow making thing is huge factor to the grand majority of skiers. The perception is the truth here in that we don’t make snow very well. I know, I know, you hear this rant from me every year. Oh well. See you and a couple of weeks. Hawk out! 
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  7. #37
    gostan's Avatar
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    Feb 2007
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    I think that I am going to take Hawk's advice and just look up last years November "when is Sugarbush going to open" and snowmaking threads. I really appreciate all of the passion and understand why he and others want to get out there now. Myself, I have similar withdrawal symptoms, but i have no problem waiting for Thanksgiving weekend to ski. And, I sort of equate this whole early season snowmaking thing to when our children are young and some parent brags that his or her child is reading at a level 3 or 4 grades above where he or she should be. By the time winter really sets in, Sugarbush will have plenty of terrain open to equal or better The Killington or Sunday River experience. IMO, it all equals out over time... At least I hope it does. Meanwhile, I am down here in Florida where daytime temps are about 70 degrees during the day and low 60's at night. Going for a run on the beach now. Ski ya on the 17th or Thanksgiving or whenever SB opens.
    Stan

    "There's No Cure For Life"

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    It's all a matter of perception. If you are used to the start of the Ski season being in mid Nov. then that is early. I have skied in October for most of my years. I count on it. No crowds, usually it is soft and bumpy and all my regular hard core friends are there. There are no masses of beginner skiers crowding the slopes and the fun spills into the après just like late season. I enjoy it greatly. I have t get it into my thick head that it will never happen here. They just don't get it/understand it. So I go to SR and ski with my old friends every year and spend the money. This weekend they will have 3 separate top t bottom runs and 2 lifts. The report from my peeps is that rock skis are not required and it is like mid-winter. That is my perception.
    Now people from this site will always throw out the company line about “it doesn’t make financial sense” or “I don’t like the early season white ribbon of death” but they just don’t understand. There is a benefit. It’s that perception thing. When considering a place to make home, the snow making thing is huge factor to the grand majority of skiers. The perception is the truth here in that we don’t make snow very well. I know, I know, you hear this rant from me every year. Oh well. See you and a couple of weeks. Hawk out! 
    it is all perception. I have to go to my inlaws for thanksgiving so skiing wouldnt start for me until december anyway. and who wouldnt want that tradeoff?

  9. #39

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    I'm with Hawk. We should be top to bottom at this point. Sunday River, Killington, Stowe and I suspect Stratton are all already top to bottom. We should rent the compressors and buy the power to make it so! Also blowing snow on Inverness for GMVS in my mind is penny wise and pound foolish. North summit is our coldest spot. Let them race on Elbow so if we get skunked we can open the summit of North to be open and once it is top to bottom then move to Inverness. Innverness is too low and too big to use so much of Norths resources so early in the season.

    As for skiing early. I've already got a day in and plan to ski Monday some were....spending additional $ to do so. We just had the "window" to blow enough snow that if weather goes south we still should have enough to open for Thanksgiving. If we did not put down enough and we screw up Thanksgivingl trying to sell full season use ski condos only gets harder.

    Let it snow!

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Treeskier View Post
    I'm with Hawk. We should be top to bottom at this point. Sunday River, Killington, Stowe and I suspect Stratton are all already top to bottom. We should rent the compressors and buy the power to make it so! Also blowing snow on Inverness for GMVS in my mind is penny wise and pound foolish. North summit is our coldest spot. Let them race on Elbow so if we get skunked we can open the summit of North to be open and once it is top to bottom then move to Inverness. Innverness is too low and too big to use so much of Norths resources so early in the season.

    As for skiing early. I've already got a day in and plan to ski Monday some were....spending additional $ to do so. We just had the "window" to blow enough snow that if weather goes south we still should have enough to open for Thanksgiving. If we did not put down enough and we screw up Thanksgivingl trying to sell full season use ski condos only gets harder.

    Let it snow!
    I should play the foil just to keep up our annual tradition, but I'm too tired and frankly a bit punchy. I was good through the first week of no electricity, but I've had enough. anyway, that's all I got. hope to see you all soon. feel free to debate the snowmaking issue until north lynx is open.

  11. #41
    gostan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treeskier View Post
    I'm with Hawk. We should be top to bottom at this point. Sunday River, Killington, Stowe and I suspect Stratton are all already top to bottom. We should rent the compressors and buy the power to make it so! Also blowing snow on Inverness for GMVS in my mind is penny wise and pound foolish. North summit is our coldest spot. Let them race on Elbow so if we get skunked we can open the summit of North to be open and once it is top to bottom then move to Inverness. Innverness is too low and too big to use so much of Norths resources so early in the season.

    As for skiing early. I've already got a day in and plan to ski Monday some were....spending additional $ to do so. We just had the "window" to blow enough snow that if weather goes south we still should have enough to open for Thanksgiving. If we did not put down enough and we screw up Thanksgivingl trying to sell full season use ski condos only gets harder.

    Let it snow!
    Tree, keep spending the $$ @ Killington for October/November early season skiing. It is definitely a far less expensive alternative to selling & relocating to a different VT mountain resort that has made the economic investment to allow faster fuller & more available top to bottom snowmaking early season & throughout. It is just not going to happen in the near future with the present ownership group. But, I accepted that before I made the decision to come back to SB 3 seasons ago. Pray for lots of snow. And have a great ski day Monday!
    Last edited by gostan; 11-09-2012 at 01:03 PM.
    Stan

    "There's No Cure For Life"

  12. #42

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    Sep 2010
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    The lack of quality early skiing has a large impact on the Valley. Everything in the Valley including inns, restaurants, retailers, and service businesses are at a competitive disadvantage compared to counterparts at Killington, Sunday River, etc. Real estate values are lower in the Valley. Restaurants and inns are selling on the cheap if they can sell at all. Look at Eagan's, the old Egan's, Miguels, the Warren Tavern, the White Horse Inn all sitting empty. These places sit front and center in the valley, in ideal locations, visitors and investors must wonder what it all means.

    I think the lack of early season quality skiing is a self fulfilling prophecy on the part of the resort. The assumption may be that since they only sell a certain number of season passes, and very few daily lift tickets for November, the snowmaking and operational expense can't be justified. The decision to go early is a business decision that cannot be modeled on a spreadsheet. It is more like "build it (cross your fingers) and they will come". Adding additional features or quality improvements to an existing product is hard to justify purely on economics.

    Sugarbush made the leap before. There was success building and selling very high quality, high priced real estate at Claybrook, far more expensive than the Valley's RE sales history would justify. They built it, and the market came, and bought. Maybe the light will go on, and they will take a similar leap of faith required to go with high quality early season snowmaking and skiing.

    That said, I love Sugarbush, I like all the recent changes, and it is clear that they are pouring a lot of money in at a steady pace. And my guess is that in time we will have competitive early season skiing. But it has been a long wait.

  13. #43

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    Appreciate the thoughts and advice, but our goal is not to be the first open. It is to open by the 17th top to bottom and to be one of the last standing as we are most years. We have really good cover on Jester and Downspout and since it is too warm today before Allyn's Lodge to make snow we are on Upper Grinder until the temperatures warm up late tomorrow. They will stay too warm for any snowmaking for a couple of days. If we get the temps after Tuesday night we will be focused on getting top to bottom by the 17th. We likely need 36-48 hours to complete the path from Heaven's Gate down across Coffee Run. We have already made snow around Valley House and Coffee Run when we had cold enough temps a couple of days ago.

    As far at ME, since we do not open there until December, we focus on getting GMVS the hill space they prefer for race training. This is huge acreage and takes an enormous amount of water to cover sufficiently. We started earlier at ME this year for GMVS and once Inverness is done, we will do our normal plan of working top bottom and in the park when cold enough so that by opening day there we have as much terrain as possible covered. The forecast is looking much better than last year.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by southvillager View Post
    The lack of quality early skiing has a large impact on the Valley. Everything in the Valley including inns, restaurants, retailers, and service businesses are at a competitive disadvantage compared to counterparts at Killington, Sunday River, etc. Real estate values are lower in the Valley. Restaurants and inns are selling on the cheap if they can sell at all. Look at Eagan's, the old Egan's, Miguels, the Warren Tavern, the White Horse Inn all sitting empty. These places sit front and center in the valley, in ideal locations, visitors and investors must wonder what it all means.

    I think the lack of early season quality skiing is a self fulfilling prophecy on the part of the resort. The assumption may be that since they only sell a certain number of season passes, and very few daily lift tickets for November, the snowmaking and operational expense can't be justified. The decision to go early is a business decision that cannot be modeled on a spreadsheet. It is more like "build it (cross your fingers) and they will come". Adding additional features or quality improvements to an existing product is hard to justify purely on economics.

    Sugarbush made the leap before. There was success building and selling very high quality, high priced real estate at Claybrook, far more expensive than the Valley's RE sales history would justify. They built it, and the market came, and bought. Maybe the light will go on, and they will take a similar leap of faith required to go with high quality early season snowmaking and skiing.

    That said, I love Sugarbush, I like all the recent changes, and it is clear that they are pouring a lot of money in at a steady pace. And my guess is that in time we will have competitive early season skiing. But it has been a long wait.
    Got power back! Yay! Hot shower in my own bathroom and I'm back in business.

    Putting aside the snowmaking issue, there is something interesting about what you pointed out. This may warrant a separate thread (miss the days of fighying over thread categorization). There have been a number of valley businesses that closed over the past 5 years, but I don't think it had anything to do with less overall customers in the valley and certainly not because the Mtn has had slow starts due to snowmaking issues. Before last season, and that's when all these places went under, the number of skier visits rose consistently and significantly during that time period. So correct me if I'm wrong, but that means there were actually an increasing number of potential customers for these businesses. Therefore their failure must be attributable to factors other than declining numbers of customers in the valley overall. And I'm pretty confident that non winter visitors to the valley had been increasing during this time as well.

    My theory is that these businesses closed and weren't replaced because of a variety of reasons, none of which has anything to do with sb attracting more customers. In no apparent order, here's my factors. Increased competition from on Mtn venues, timbers and crp. BC (before Claybrook) there was nothing on Mtn, so all the business they're doing has to come from somewhere. Other new competitors, such as green cup, mint, mad taco, histel tavere, etc.
    The general economic weakness. This really has 3 components, skiers cutting back on dining spending, business difficulty in getting credit and lack of confidence to start a new business ( or continue with a struggling one).
    And of course, individual reasons like leases, personal etc.

    Interested to hear what you guys think.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowieT2 View Post
    Got power back! Yay! Hot shower in my own bathroom and I'm back in business.

    Putting aside the snowmaking issue, there is something interesting about what you pointed out. This may warrant a separate thread (miss the days of fighying over thread categorization). There have been a number of valley businesses that closed over the past 5 years, but I don't think it had anything to do with less overall customers in the valley and certainly not because the Mtn has had slow starts due to snowmaking issues. Before last season, and that's when all these places went under, the number of skier visits rose consistently and significantly during that time period. So correct me if I'm wrong, but that means there were actually an increasing number of potential customers for these businesses. Therefore their failure must be attributable to factors other than declining numbers of customers in the valley overall. And I'm pretty confident that non winter visitors to the valley had been increasing during this time as well.
    .
    Well after some quick Googling, it seems like Sugarbush Skier Visits are roughly the same as Stowe Skier Visits, and there are many, many more businesses in Stowe. And Stowe also does not offer much early skiing. So my theory is dead wrong. Maybe I have it backwards, maybe there isn't enough critical mass of touristy businesses in the Valley to attract visitors to sustain other touristy businesses. Like a mall without enough tenants, the Valley hospitality businesses suffer from a lack of traffic overall.

    No matter how you slice it, the Valley restaurants and inns are in tough shape. I mentioned the Whitehorse and the old Egan's as sitting vacant, but there are also many other inns for sale. I guess I'm just a worrier, but I would like the Valley to be a bit more successful.

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