MRG/Sugarbush Cooperation

[HowieT2]

the difference between alta/snowbird and sb/mrg is that mrg is limited to being a fair weather option. the lcc resorts dont have that issue. mrg probably averages half the days open that sb does.

as far as marketing to the vacation destination skiers, they already offer the combined ski the valley (or whatever its called) pass.

[Colonel]

We are 2nd homeowners in the Valley and MRG shareholders/passholders who came up ahead of the storm and took advantage of the 1/2 price skiing offer at SBN this past Fri. My three kids were blown away by the terrain park and can't wait to come back. We had a great day that we otherwise would not have had and will probably be buyers of SBN passes for next year.
Thanks Win and to all at SBN who made us feel welcome. We'll be back!

[notorious]

Rope tow is right. Joint passes are the future of the valley. The "hows" are details. The question is when, before Jay takes our customer base or after?

[gostan]

Rope tow is right. Joint passes are the future of the valley. The "hows" are details. The question is when, before Jay takes our customer base or after?

Remember that many of us come to MRV from Boston and other distant locations. And I would opt to go back to Sugarloaf before going to Jay. And, neither drive is as easy as the drive to SB, as far as I am concerned.

And, I prefer MRV to indoor water parks.

[Hawk]

If you haven't skied Jay lately it is not quite like it used to be. It's popularity has turned it into a total Sh#* Show on snow days. I was amazed as how fast the entire mountain got tracked out. Even the remote locations. Pound for pound I think that Sugarbush has way better skiing for a longer duration, more vertical and better trails. All those dumbed down manicured glades are not that great IMO.

I can't see them getting that much more popular. They have seen increased lines and that will only go so far before people say NOPE. Actually that is my biggest fear with Sugarbush.

[jwt]

If you haven't skied Jay lately it is not quite like it used to be. It's popularity has turned it into a total Sh#* Show on snow days. I was amazed as how fast the entire mountain got tracked out. Even the remote locations. Pound for pound I think that Sugarbush has way better skiing for a longer duration, more vertical and better trails. All those dumbed down manicured glades are not that great IMO.

I can't see them getting that much more popular. They have seen increased lines and that will only go so far before people say NOPE. Actually that is my biggest fear with Sugarbush.

I'll agree there Hawk - lines here have been really the steadiest and longest consistently in the 30 years I've been coming to da 'Bush. The only thing that worries me is those seemed to have happened with many if not all lifts open!

As a small business owner, I'm happy for SV because capital for extending VH down to Bravo can only come from higher volumes of sales - whether it be RE or ticket sales or food. That removes the largest problem of gridlock. The other is consistent NL opening- and a bit more snowmaking there Unlike the Feds, SV does not own a printing press.

Family has an all mountain passes but we stick to Ellen on powder or holiday Saturdays exclusively now - and get more skiing because of it. Only really miss the Rock and those unmarked woods trails over there - but if one can't GET to them. . . .

We use ALL the terrain between Brambles and Spring Fling - jay has a whole mountain to expand to - we're out of those.

And while I'm not looking for a water park - SV would be hunted down and wiped out if they ever even thought of something like that - it DOES remove people from the mountain!!!!!

Most of us know we have the best overall experience in the East for skiing and Gods beauty with LESS people ( less beds) than any other major resort. We bring friends here and many stay . A few condos aren't going to kill us, we're just a bit spoiled.

That Terrain park keeps borders happy and off the other slopes too! Overall - we all know SR SL and those others have more this or that - and more people because of more beds - We'll never get that big - and that's a good thing.

We're rich , let's face it. As John D Rockefeller said when asked, being the wealthiest man on earth at the time - how much is enough? He was honest, ( forefinger and thumb close together) 'Just a little bit more'.

And still more people are needed to grow - just time to start selling separate 'woods passes' so we can limit the people in there ( just kidding of course)

[HowieT2]

I'll agree there Hawk - lines here have been really the steadiest and longest consistently in the 30 years I've been coming to da 'Bush. The only thing that worries me is those seemed to have happened with many if not all lifts open!

As a small business owner, I'm happy for SV because capital for extending VH down to Bravo can only come from higher volumes of sales - whether it be RE or ticket sales or food. That removes the largest problem of gridlock. The other is consistent NL opening- and a bit more snowmaking there Unlike the Feds, SV does not own a printing press.

Family has an all mountain passes but we stick to Ellen on powder or holiday Saturdays exclusively now - and get more skiing because of it. Only really miss the Rock and those unmarked woods trails over there - but if one can't GET to them. . . .

We use ALL the terrain between Brambles and Spring Fling - jay has a whole mountain to expand to - we're out of those.

And while I'm not looking for a water park - SV would be hunted down and wiped out if they ever even thought of something like that - it DOES remove people from the mountain!!!!!

Most of us know we have the best overall experience in the East for skiing and Gods beauty with LESS people ( less beds) than any other major resort. We bring friends here and many stay . A few condos aren't going to kill us, we're just a bit spoiled.

That Terrain park keeps borders happy and off the other slopes too! Overall - we all know SR SL and those others have more this or that - and more people because of more beds - We'll never get that big - and that's a good thing.

We're rich , let's face it. As John D Rockefeller said when asked, being the wealthiest man on earth at the time - how much is enough? He was honest, ( forefinger and thumb close together) 'Just a little bit more'.

And still more people are needed to grow - just time to start selling separate 'woods passes' so we can limit the people in there ( just kidding of course)

agreed.
as to capacity at LP. replacing the old VH double with a modern triple would be sufficient to address the lift line issue. Not to beat a dead horse but its also a safety issue. I'd bet we see this sooner rather than later.
Increased peak cafeteria space. dont know what the answer to this, but a mid mtn lodge would be awesome.

water park- the sharc needs a revamp. why not include a water park?

[sgottmann]

agreed.
as to capacity at LP. replacing the old VH double with a modern triple would be sufficient to address the lift line issue. Not to beat a dead horse but its also a safety issue. I'd bet we see this sooner rather than later.
Increased peak cafeteria space. dont know what the answer to this, but a mid mtn lodge would be awesome.

water park- the sharc needs a revamp. why not include a water park?

I think the crowds this year have been bigger than in any of the 12 that I have been at SB. While not that bad, the lines and wait times have been consistently noticeable at Super Bravo and Gatehouse. Weather has been a contributing factor, with Castlerock closed, HG on windhold and conditions marginal up there, but uphill capacity has been an issue for the first time that I can remember. I would love to see the VH replaced and extended down to base area and the traverse re-worked. I hope the profits are up enough to justify the expansion. I think I will ski at north on Saturday and Sunday for most of the day and hope slidebrook will be running.

[southvillager]

Miracles can happen. In the last 3 years, new chair lifts have been installed at Jay, Sugarloaf, Shawnee, Mt Snow, Loon, Gunstock, Cannon, Cranmore, and Stowe, and maybe others. Resorts are making upgrades and improvements to their lifts even in the toughest of economic circumstances. Even the little guys like Shawnee and Gunstock are stepping it up a notch.

I can't imagine that Sugarbush would let their reputation be damaged by allowing the lifts to become too much of a negative experience.

[Chewbarka]

+1. Replacing the Valley House Double with a high speed quad would solve most problems. It doesn't need to extend down to Bravo to be effective. In fact, if installed in VHD footprint, it would relieve a lot of lunch time stress on Gate House Lodge as it would entice more people into old lodge with a high speed quad was out the front door. If growth continues, something like this will need to be done soon. Unfortunately, 4 long time season pass buddies are heading to Stowe next year due to these growing pains. We are sad!

[RopeTow]

Hi Chew

I'm just wondering what all the reasons are for switching out SB for Stowe. The VHD certainly is crying out for replacement, but it can't be the only reason...Care to let us know all of what's going into your and your buds thinking? And...would you be influenced by the availability of a "Valley Season Pass" or "Valley Direct Card" that allowed you more/better/cheaper/hassle-free access to all three mountains in the MRV as well as a greater range of incentives and discounts in the MRV?

Just curious,

RopeTow

[Chewbarka]

Sure, here is the reasoning for them defecting after 12 years. Over 50% of reasoning are the lifts. Heavens gate and VHD are slow. If HG goes down, which it does from time to time, Bravo is a disaster. This year with Castlerock down, its been particularly bad. Compounded with additional skier visits, the lines have been really bad at times. If you are going to wait that long, the reasoning is at $teaux, you will have a top to bottom run that is 40% longer then the run you will get off Bravo or VHD and the lift ride time is shorter. I don't think MRG being shut down is helping our cause at the bush either. We have also seen the VHD not running, which does not help allieviate the crowds. Just think about how different the skier patterns would be with a high speed lift were to replace the VHD.

The rest of the reasoning is more controversial. The lack of snow making on Castlerock has killed off most of the difficult terrain this year. While i argue that snowmaking up there is a bad thing, we have seen a serious lack of terrain this year that is not the case at many other mountains with greater snow making capabilities. We are suffering "mountain fatigue" currently, which a good snowfall would solve, but sure seems unlikely this year. Lots of snow cures all! And, there is no talk at all of new lifts or expanded snowmaking at Sugarbush in the future.

So our buds are leaving us. They live in Burlington area, so its an easier decision for them. We come up from CT and are pot committed to the valley with our valley real estate purchase many years ago. The extra driving does not appeal to us. I will say we are currently wrestling with decision to reload our all mtn pass this spring as we do every year vs. a sugarcard or quad pack which would allow us to ski other areas from time to time next year. We are seriously leaning this way right now.

The "valley pass" would not help one bit with our decision. MRG is a non player in a bad snow year and that is what it is really all about.

[RopeTow]

Rope tow is right. Joint passes are the future of the valley. The "hows" are details. The question is when...

Bumping this thread for some more off-season discussion. I would still like to see a joint season pass, like Snowbird/Alta, or if not, an expanded "SugarMad Direct Card" that I can use to get on any lift in the Valley without going to the ticket window.

I've been bombarded with emails urging me to buy the Mountain Collective pass the last few days. See: http://www.themountaincollective.com/.

There are plenty of other joint marketing initiatives out there, some by areas with the same corporate ownership, some not. It seems like there is plenty of joint marketing going on.

Win's offer to let MRG season passholders purchase discount Ellen tickets during the thaw last year is an approach that could be expanded. Why not offer an Ellen/MRG pass (with perhaps the right to purchase discount Lincoln tickets)? This should be attractive to MRG passholders to hedge against weather risk and could be an appealing "upgrade" for Ellen-only passholders. Isn't the only real issue price?

I know there would be a concern from MRG that it would be inundated on Saturdays when conditions are great. So maybe carve out Saturdays...But remember, when conditions are great at MRG, they are great at Ellen, too.

Although not directly comparable, I note that SkiUtah offers gold and silver passes good at any Utah ski area. See: http://www.skiutah.com/winter/deals/...nd_gold_passes. The participating areas have obviously figured out a way to share the revenue...

That's enough for now. Hope everyone is enjoying the biking, golf and sailing...

RopeTow

[WWF-VT]

I've been bombarded with emails urging me to buy the Mountain Collective pass the last few days. See: http://www.themountaincollective.com/.

The Mountain Collective is a helluva pass option for $369. 12 days of skiing plus other deals! All you need to do is budget several thousand additional dollars for travel, lodging and expenses to visit the resorts in 4 different states and a have your passport for a trip to Canada.

[WWF-VT]

I still think the thing you are most likely to see will be a discount card between the 3. 25% off Lincoln Peak every day, 50% off Mt. Ellen/MRG weekdays, and 25% weekends. It could be an add on for all season pass holders at $50. Or, Mad River could have a discount card that could be added on to SB passes at a discount, and MRG could have a Sugar Direct card added at a discount. I think there could be a way to integrate the mountains better to deliver a cheaper product, but I logically dont see it happening anytime soon.

Or just by a Mad Card for $144 that gets you three transferable tickets to use any time at MRG.