New Snow Guns

[Treeskier]

As lover of new technology it was great to see where snow guns are going.


They require only ~ 5 CFMs compared to 300+CFMs the oldest guns require and ~180 CFMs that the Snow Economics HKD gun require.
Here is a close-up of the head


From what I understand the barrel atomizes the water so it comes out as mist and the 3 up facing jets are air only. That is why the barrel is so long.

I also learned that as with any new technology there is room for improvement. I guess they are bulky and require 2 or 3 people to move them. They do not slide around easily.

My biggest observations is how quite they are! Skiing with an instructor, he said "Being this quite I can now conduct a class and my student will be able to hear me! That will be great."

Also learned is they work best at 25 degrees or lower. Which means in NE fickled weather they, at the moment, seem not to be the end all since the older much more high air volume guns can operate at high temperatures.


A lot of us also gave our sacrifices to Ullr the snow god

Looks like colder weather coming second half of the week!

[Hawk]

Was that at a local bar tenders party?

I will have to examine these things closer this weekend. That is a real funkey set up. They look pretty cool. I have to see if they actually blow decent quality snow or just mud. I have heard some rumblings but I can not comment until I have seen them for my self.

Another 55-60 degree MTB ride last night. Is this December??? I can't wait for the true cold to set in. I haven't even used my winter MTB shoes yet.

[HowieT2]

Cool stuff.

fwiw-this weather still blows and as of now it looks like the goods will stay south of the mrv on thursday.

[Treeskier]

Not sure what the story is. From first observations the guns all lined up and running all weekend at the bottom of Gondolier sure did not put out much snow.Expecially since they where turned on on Wed. PM. Compared to the piles the older guns put out just over night on Downspout. But then I heard through the grape vine that the guns water output controls, go from 1 to 7. 1 being the least. And that they area all set at 1. Which does not make sense, unless it is due to not low enough temperature then that is a problem also.

I will say that providing us soft piles of snow on Downspout did save the weekend by providing fun snow to play in. That was a very good thing!

Everyone think cold for Wednesday into Thursday!

[HowieT2]

Not sure what the story is. From first observations the guns all lined up and running all weekend at the bottom of Gondolier sure did not put out much snow.Expecially since they where turned on on Wed. PM. Compared to the piles the older guns put out just over night on Downspout. But then I heard through the grape vine that the guns water output controls, go from 1 to 7. 1 being the least. And that they area all set at 1. Which does not make sense, unless it is due to not low enough temperature then that is a problem also.

I will say that providing us soft piles of snow on Downspout did save the weekend by providing fun snow to play in. That was a very good thing!

Everyone think cold for Wednesday into Thursday!

From what I heard the jury is still out on the performance of the new guns in marginal temperatures as we had this past weekend.

[Brew Ski]

Treeskier,

Thanks for posting the pix. Love the skier with the guns in the background. Nice action shot. And tips first landing. Nice.

I was thinking that the majority of the new guns were not dialed up to max output. Not sure why considering the cold temps. A couple of the guns on Gondolier must have been at higher settings because they seemed to be putting out significantly more snow than other guns. Again, seems like the new guns should have been at least turned up to 4 or 5 to get more coverage faster. The quality of snow coming out of the new guns seems really good. The flake-like pellets were dry and not hard like graupel. At least the stuff landing on my ski coat looked pretty good.

I listened to many discussions on chair rides about the guns placement. Seems like you'd have them shooting up or down the middle of the trail. Dump as much snow as possible, then let the snow cats push the snow around to aerate and smooth cover. Instead many of them were angled across trails and effectively filling the woods (thanks for that). While I'll use the strong base in the woods later in the year, it seems that on a relatively low wind weekend, the guns could be better used filling the trails. In the years that I worked at Killington, the snow makers early season usually had guns blasting up and down the runs to get max depth on the center of the trails. They let the groomers worry about pushing snow out to the edges. Once skiers hit the slopes they naturally push snow to the sides anyway. Just seems like serious under-utilization of snow making potential. I don't get paid to do that job, but if I did, I'd try to maximize my limited time and resources. Now stepping off soap box.

Brew ski

[HowieT2]

Treeskier,

Thanks for posting the pix. Love the skier with the guns in the background. Nice action shot. And tips first landing. Nice.

I was thinking that the majority of the new guns were not dialed up to max output. Not sure why considering the cold temps. A couple of the guns on Gondolier must have been at higher settings because they seemed to be putting out significantly more snow than other guns. Again, seems like the new guns should have been at least turned up to 4 or 5 to get more coverage faster. The quality of snow coming out of the new guns seems really good. The flake-like pellets were dry and not hard like graupel. At least the stuff landing on my ski coat looked pretty good.

I listened to many discussions on chair rides about the guns placement. Seems like you'd have them shooting up or down the middle of the trail. Dump as much snow as possible, then let the snow cats push the snow around to aerate and smooth cover. Instead many of them were angled across trails and effectively filling the woods (thanks for that). While I'll use the strong base in the woods later in the year, it seems that on a relatively low wind weekend, the guns could be better used filling the trails. In the years that I worked at Killington, the snow makers early season usually had guns blasting up and down the runs to get max depth on the center of the trails. They let the groomers worry about pushing snow out to the edges. Once skiers hit the slopes they naturally push snow to the sides anyway. Just seems like serious under-utilization of snow making potential. I don't get paid to do that job, but if I did, I'd try to maximize my limited time and resources. Now stepping off soap box.

Brew ski

I would think the new guns could not be dialed to their max because the temperature, at least during the daytime, was too high.

[gostan]

I would think the new guns could not be dialed to their max because the temperature, at least during the daytime, was too high.

And, I would think that more water would require more air/compression. But higher daytime temperatures definitely affect the volume produced by any snow gun(s).

Guys, all we really need, just like any other year, is an early two foot dump. That type of event changes everything.

[Brew Ski]

And, I would think that more water would require more air/compression. But higher daytime temperatures definitely affect the volume produced by any snow gun(s).

Guys, all we really need, just like any other year, is an early two foot dump. That type of event changes everything.

I understand your point, but I don't buy the excuse. It was BELOW 25F all night and most of the morning, especially at the peak. It's just a poor excuse to say it is too warm to not "turn 'm up!" The guns either make snow, or not. The fact that they were making snow, means it was cold enough to work and they could have been turned up past the "1" setting. OK, maybe thermal mass and high volume flow cause a local internal temperature rise in the gun so that higher flow rates creates more "heat" a la friction and to get full throttle needs temperature outside below 20F, but I'm going to find that hard to believe without a reasonable body of evidence.

My comment still stands, the guns setting on "1" or low seems a waste of time and resources. Early season or not, if you can dial up the gun for more output, do it. Again, some new guns were clearly putting out more snow than others. Hard to believe the temperature was too warm just below Heavens gate resulting in a lowest gun setting when a couple of the new guns at the base were clearly at a "2" or "3". Did someone lose the user manual for the new snow guns? Maybe having a bunch of snow making guys standing around, there was too much bravado for someone to break down and say "Jeez, these things probably could be turned up more," then go read the manual to figure out how to turn up up past the lowest setting? I've pulled every restrictor gasket out of every shower head I've ever owned to get better flow. Seems like someone should take the E-Brake of the new guns and let 'm do their thing. Moreover, they are new, I'm sure they are under warrantee. Why not try maxing them out to see what they can do? If they start spewing snot, then dial them back until you get snow again. At this point even wet snow would make a good base and open more terrain.

[HowieT2]

fwiw it was 28-30 degrees at the base during the day on saturday and sunday. dont know what the "wet bulb" was. and it's fair to assume that observations of the gun settings and output were made during the day.
and I dont think it's as simple as saying "the guns either make snow or they dont". it seems obvious that if that were true they wouldnt have settings at all.
you might be correct to the extent that in marginal temperatures these new guns may not be an improvement over the old ones.

[itsallaboutpow]

Interestingly enough, downloading on SuperBravo Sat. morning I thought the same thing .. wow, these new guns don't appear to be producing any snow I know there are many parameters to consider, but it seems in years past I was super happy with the snow making at SB .. almost "proud" .. seems like we would have already had Ripcord and OG, and even Murphy's Glades rocking by now .. This year .. super disappointed !

[Hawk]

I think the marketing guy for the Snow Economics HKD gun hit a home run. I can see him now going " OMG, OMG there going to buy a SH*# load of Guns.....CHA-CHING!!!"

[gostan]

I am not sure how many of the 70 guns were in place this weekend on Downspout and strung down Lower Downspout and Gondolier, but I would suspect that most of them were in use as that is a very long run down to the base.

The Snow Logic website indicates that these guns can use/put out up to 120 GPM (gallons per minute). My recollection is that Win indicated in one of his posts that the GMP water use capacity at LP was 4000 GPM. You do the math. If some of the guns were on lower and/or different settings, then this must be the reason.

[ml242]

I am not sure how many of the 70 guns were in place this weekend on Downspout and strung down Lower Downspout and Gondolier, but I would suspect that most of them were in use as that is a very long run down to the base.

The Snow Logic website indicates that these guns can use/put out up to 120 GPM (gallons per minute). My recollection is that Win indicated in one of his posts that the GMP water use capacity at LP was 4000 GPM. You do the math. If some of the guns were on lower and/or different settings, then this must be the reason.

I thought the air was the problem (besides the warm temps).

So using the old guns, how many of these would you need to cover ripcord and OG in a week (assuming unlimited fuel, water, and good temps)?

http://www.equipmentlocator.com/asp/...-en/close/yes/

[gostan]

I thought the air was the problem (besides the warm temps).

So using the old guns, how many of these would you need to cover ripcord and OG in a week (assuming unlimited fuel, water, and good temps)?

http://www.equipmentlocator.com/asp/...-en/close/yes/

It is the air that is the controlling issue. More air will increase the gpm of water.