View Poll Results: When Will The Snow Guns Start Blowing Snow?

Voters
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  • Saturday, November 5

    0 0%
  • Tuesday, November 8

    0 0%
  • Saturday, November 12

    5 41.67%
  • Tuesday, November 15

    6 50.00%
  • Tuesday, November 22

    1 8.33%
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  1. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by beelze View Post
    Nothing else explains other places (smaller, lower) having at least some top/bottom open. The weather in the valley is not significantly different from Stowe or K or other places in NH so that one would have many more nights suitable for snowmaking. Sugarbush (aka Win) can be first, last or somewhere in between in regards the opening and clearly last is the place chosen. And while Sugarbush/Win like to trumpet staying open "late", other places do that too. And lets not forget the ever later opening and ever earlier closings of Mt. Ellen (relative to years past.) There to, business decisions. Likewise the ticket/pass costs - Sugarbush does not give any significant discount (if any at all) compared to the other facilities of similar size and stature. Win is famous for telling people to sell their places and go elsewhere if they don't like it - a viable option I suppose in a better housing market. So it is what it is and no matter how much people on here want to bitch about it, you are not going to have any effect on the mountains decision making proce$$. Is Win getting filthy rich following this course? Probably not. But were I to guess, he's probably making a lot more per ski/boarder than the other places.

    That said, I think most of us are here for the snow on the mountain and not for the architecture. If I were to ask for anything, lets stop making new buildings and keep revamping the snowmaking and lifts.
    we've been down this road before and it's the new buildings, specifically residential condos, that pay for revamping snowmaking and lifts. Obviously, the schoolhouse and farmhouse werent revenue producing, but I doubt anyone would argue that they werent necessary given the state of structures they replaced.

    and fwiw-the season pass pricing is on par with the competition.

  2. #107
    Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Just ahead of you in the woods....
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    Not bitching. Discussion! No one is truely mad. At least for me it is a big wish list thing.
    OK simply put this is how I see it....
    Some people are rosey colored glasses people and just love the world the way it is.
    Some people are busy in the fall with family things like soccer or B-Ball or work or Things....
    Some people are powder snobs that have no use for snow making.
    Some people are crusty old Vermonters that just plain hate change.
    Some people think that the current management can do no wrong.
    Some people have not experienced good snow making and just don't understand.

    Some people just cannot or will not ski early season for many different reasons. Whatever your reason for thinking that improved snowmaking is not good, I just do not see it that way. I always want to ski. That is me.....just my opinion. I have seen the benefit first hand of good snow making and think that it is necessary for growth and viability of this resort. Will it get done, probably not. But it is something that I like to discuss when I am waiting to ski again.
    Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
    Got two good eyes but we still don’t see!

  3. #108
    You guys need to lay off the 420.


    LEEEEEEEEROYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY JENKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #109
    Awwww man you just been Havok'd.

    In any case I think the issue is that every time something comes up everyone 100% of the time likes to go to the extreme side of it. Every time.

    As mentioned I went to Killington on Friday and to do the Taster's Choice challenge since SB was open I went to SB on Saturday and Sunday. Now I'm not saying we should be toe to toe with Killington, but we weren't even close.

    So to dispel some rumors, which everyone always does all the time. 100% no exceptions:

    1) Killington had 3 full parking lots worth of people, possibly more, but that's all I saw. There was never much of a wait on any of the 7 lifts that were open. Maybe a 2-3 minute wait and every chair went up full until about 3 PM when it died down a bit. If that represents just 1% of the people that ski there then holy crap that's a lot of people. It felt like there were more people that day than I have ever seen at SB on any given day mid-season. I'm talking roving mobs of people coming down at once. (One reason I like SB so much and have a pass here)

    2) There were 23 open trails listed I think which equated to about 13 real runs with some top to bottom. For the record I consider Upper Jester, Downspout to Allyn's (Good luck finding that on a map kids) one run/trail. It's like counting Upper Panorama to Lower Panorama to Rim Run to Upper Looking Good to Lower Looking Good to Lower Rim Run as six trails open. They also opened up a few more throughout the day to include about 4-5 natural snow trails. In case anyone was wondering it did not ALL melt. Nor do I think it will post this week and after this catastrophe moving in this week I'm sure they will be in a much better position to get back up and running.

    3) The entire mountain was white which just had a great feel to it and the man made and natural snow ski'd great. A bit thin on natural trails, but nice. Great bumps on some runs. Others were groomed and offered variety.

    4) The lodges were pretty full too with people buying food and drinks etc.

    5) Anyone who wants snowmaking does not want to go back to ASC days or to AIG. Does anyone really think AIG is in a position to buy anyways? So if I like early season skiing I must want ASC back. Yes please. Of course.

    That all being said the 1 trail open at SB was pretty decent. I'll go so far as to say good, but I enjoy skiing bumps. The snow was soft and seemed of good quality. The rollers on Jester I could have done without, but dare I say it, I actually enjoyed Downspout. Not sure I've ever uttered those words before, but there it was.

    So in summary Killington wasn't just a bit better, it was substantially better and all I'm asking here is that we do a bit more. Maybe 2 runs open? Could we get Organgrinder or Ripcord open? 3 runs? Not saying we need to compete fully and have 23+ trails open, but can we at least blow in more than one area? Maybe Spring Fling and get the double running too? I seem to recall a few years back Spring Fling opening early and it being absolutely blasted with snow and beautiful bumps.

    As for late season claims at SB I think a lack of snowmaking last year led to a pretty thin Stein's and it was more Mother Nature that bailed us out in longevity. Just saying.

    So now that we sold a couple thousand 20+ passes we should have some quid in our pockets right? Let's get some man made blowing as soon as we can and we'll forget all about trying to jam another 2000 people into the boot room.

  5. #110
    Its pretty simple .. you NEED man made snow if you want a successful ski season in Vt. Stowe is again open, top to BOTTOM today, even after all the warm weather and rain we had .. just saying ...

  6. #111
    Unfortunately the weather forecast through December will only compound issues with snowmaking capabilities. From what I read there is little hope for sustained snowmaking temps over the next few weeks..... will be interesting to see how it plays out and if the mountain will be able to significantly expland terrain before the holidays.

  7. #112
    The pattern is undeniably bad, but it looks like the next several nights are cold enough for snowmaking.

  8. #113

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Flatlands of Southern CT
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    293
    Had extended family up Tues - Sun, staying in house on main mountain at SB. All 12 of them bailed to ski and spend their $ at Killington Thurs-Sat. It was not possible to argue with them on their decision. As MtnMan points out the comparison on open terrain wasn't even close. By a long shot. I skied w/ my son Thanksgiving at Sb and conditions were decent to good just very, very, very limited in options. Enjoyed the bumps, snow quality was quite good, but I'm not really a guy who want to scoot down the same stretch of trail all day long. Variety is nice, so that was the end of the time on the hill this trip. Yeah I know it was early season, still the comparison between the two resorts was quite stark indeed. And heaven knows what would have happened had Ma Nature not deposited 12" of that high density snow Tues into Wed. The Catch22 here was we had friends up as well who are actively looking for a resort on which to build or buy a ski house, and SB did not come out of the this holiday comparing well to a couple of the other 'big boy' mtns they are considering. I know it takes $ often from real estate sales to fund the big capital improvement projects like snowmaking but the current state of affairs is, at least for this family, likely to have them conclude their ski home hunt elsewhere as season length for them matters.
    No mountain too steep
    No powder too deep

    (well, not exactly)

  9. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by itsallaboutpow View Post
    Its pretty simple .. you NEED man made snow if you want a successful ski season in Vt. Stowe is again open, top to BOTTOM today, even after all the warm weather and rain we had .. just saying ...
    correct me if Im wrong but I dont think stowe was open top to bottom today and if it was they were moving snow to fill in gaps.

  10. #115
    Great discussions here. Can anyone give a current snow making status for those of us flat-landers trying to make weekend plans? It seems like it should be cold enough to make snow the next few nights. Not sure if SB is trying to re-open for the weekend. Thanks!


  11. #116
    gostan's Avatar
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    Feb 2007
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    Long and short of it, is that Now that November is over, I have seen nearly identical reports on 4 Boaton TV stations confirming what we all know. This past November was the second warmest November since they have been keeping such weather records. In fact, the last 5 months have averaged almost 6 degrees warmer than the norm. And, unfortunately, December is also looking to average higher temps than normal.

    I am glad that I got my skiing fix temporarily semi-satisfied last week with 1 day @ Stowe and 4 @ SB.

    I am not pandering when I say that I really do not care what the Beast or Stowe or even the LOONs of NE are opening or keeping opening for trail counts and terrain. I do care to know how SB plans to catch up on blanketing terrain @ Lincoln Peak once temps get and keep below freezing with what is looking like a dirtth of snow maker snow falls over the month of December. My main concern is that with the requirement to blow snow on both Lincoln and Mount Ellen (opening 12-16?), that we skiers and riders will end up with very limited and crowded terrain on 2 separate mountains, when all efforts might be better served to flood one mountain with as much snow as possible. Yes, I understand the reasons why this is part of the SB plans, and Ido not fully understand the workings of the SB snow inking system, but, for me, this is more of a problem than worrying about what the other ski areas are doing. If SB cannot yet blow enough snow to get one trail open top to bottom on one mountain, then, why split the limited snowmaking resources. In biz, I have always believed in one great development project, than two "maybe" projects. Let's blow the heck out of either Lincoln or Mount Ellen.

    Time to do some more cold cold bring on the cold dancing......and, maybe to book some tix west when the semi-satisfied fix wears off, for some December reinvigorated skiing.
    Stan

    "There's No Cure For Life"

  12. #117

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Waitsfield, VT
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    124
    Stan, I think some of the reason for snowmaking at Mt Eiien is to accommodate GMVS. GMVS directly purchased some of the new technology snow guns (and allows SB to use them in other areas of MtE after Inverness is done) They also contribute roughly $400 extra per student in season pass fees, this X about 100 kids = $40,000. Additionally, they installed their own T-bar (which connects to Poma) to allow them to use Inverness autonomously of the Mt operations and during wind/weather holds. They represent Sugarbush at events all over the country, and the US Ski Team and many colleges, and do very well in the results, largely as a result of the training opportunities made available at Sugarbush/Inverness. In addition to the Academy, GMVS has a ski club with over 100 families (300+ total), drawing from as far as NJ. Many of these members, and Academy families, become second homeowners, even residents and business owners. As an entity, they contribute much to the Resort and to the Valley. Lastly, they host many races during the season, bringing up to 300 competitors from other areas/resorts to each race. For this reason alone, it is important to have Inverness in its best condition possible.

    While Inverness may be closed to the public for safety reasons during racing or training, it is always open to the public before and after.

    To me, the relationship, and the need to make snow at MtE, seems a win win. No pun intended.

  13. #118
    Isnt the snowmaking at ME separate from LP?

    What's interesting to me is that there have been investments made into the snowmaking system in the last few years but has the capacity/performance increased. hard for any of us to know with all the variables, most significantly weather conditions, involved. SB has chosen to invest in new high efficiency nozzles whereas other resorts seem to have gone the fan gun route. they did demo some fan guns the past couple of years.

  14. #119
    I think it might be worth mentioning. A more efficient snow gun, doesn't necessarily mean it makes more snow. It likely makes the same amount of snow, using less air(therefore less electricity). I think some have made the leap that if told the guns are 50% more efficient, you expect 50% more snow given equal conditions. Where it likely means that at 50% efficiency, you just have a smaller bill from the electric company(and the same amount of snow). This is speculation on my part, but I'd guess you'd still have to force the same amount of water out of a gun to make a given amount of snow.

  15. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Hrdstrt View Post
    I think it might be worth mentioning. A more efficient snow gun, doesn't necessarily mean it makes more snow. It likely makes the same amount of snow, using less air(therefore less electricity). I think some have made the leap that if told the guns are 50% more efficient, you expect 50% more snow given equal conditions. Where it likely means that at 50% efficiency, you just have a smaller bill from the electric company(and the same amount of snow). This is speculation on my part, but I'd guess you'd still have to force the same amount of water out of a gun to make a given amount of snow.
    true but there was speculation that the limitation on the capacity of the system was due to the compressors and how much air they can pump out. therefore if the new nozzles use less air, than the maximum snow output should increase accordingly. of course this is all speculation.

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