2011-2012 Annual Snowmaking Discussion Thread

**HowieT2** · 12-02-2011, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by vonski

Keep Dancing Tree!!!! Just looked at webcam and its puking big globs out of the sky. Nothing like ma nature snow guns!!!!

That it is and it certainly makes it look a whole lot better. but the temps must be marginal as the the guns at the base are off.

**gostan** · 12-05-2011, 10:05 AM

The following was posted on Sugarloaf Today on Saturday by the mountain communications director. SL has 3 trails open right now with no top to bottom. Bring on the cold weather.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________
We maxed out at about 110 guns last night and the night before on Hayburner and Candyside. When temps/wet bulbs get low enough, these days the snowmakers can generally max out the system somewhere in the 130-140 gun range, depending on the types of guns they’re running. When temperatures are higher and snowmaking requires more air, that number goes down a bit.

Sunday River has about twice the air capacity that we have, and consequently has a much larger snowmaking capacity than we do, particularly when temps are warm like they have been this week. It’s really apples and oranges. We certainly don't claim to have a comparable snowmaking capacity to Sunday River, so I’m not sure where the disconnect is.

And with all due respect to Vesper’s vast knowledge of all things snowmaking, in 2000 we could not have accomplished what our snowmakers did this week. With about a 48 hour window of marginal snowmaking temps (only about 36 hours for Peavey and below), they were able to take Hayburner and Candyside from what was essentially bare earth to skiable.

We have made huge improvements to the snowmaking system over the past several years, but no matter what improvements we make the key ingredient will always be cold temperatures, which have been in short supply this week.

- Ethan
Sugarloaf Communications Manager
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________Although I could have played golf yesterday, I opted to go see the Patriots game in Foxborough. Pretty warm for December football.

**MntMan4Bush** · 12-05-2011, 10:59 AM

So how many guns can SB run at the same time at Lincoln? It's been asked but not answered. I heard from 2 people this weekend that it is only 25-30 at once. This seems a bit exaggerated to me and I don't really believe it. Though if I think about it I don't really remember seeing many more than this going at once in recent history, but I'm probably wrong on this.

Aside from this I will say the new guns seem pretty nice. They are really quiet as opposed to a deafening roar that I liked and the snow coming out looked a lot lighter and finer than what is blasted out of the older ones.

**win** · 12-05-2011, 12:06 PM

This is not a simple answer. It all depend on the "wet bulb" temperatures. The colder and less humidity there is, the less CFM (cubic feet per minute) of air you need to converst water to snow. The maximum water we can run through the system is approximately 2,000 gallons per minute. The new guns can convert water to snow at marginal temperatures with only about 5CFM. Using less air is why they are so much quieter. This time of year when temperatures are marginal - meaning above 25 wet bulb, we run out of air before maximizing the water that is available. With the new guns we can run more guns at the same time and pump more water. So far using 20 of the new snowlogic guns at Lincoln Peak we have had nearly 70 guns running at the same time. Once we have finished covering Inverness for GMVS we plan to move those 20 over to LP and this will allow us to pump more water through the system. When temperatures are in the single digits, we have sometimes maximize the gallons pumped with only one of two of the three electric compressors being used. With all forty snowlogiv guns in place at LP and cold temperatures, we will be able to see where we max out with guns running simultaneously.

The old snowmaking guns needed 300-400 CFM. The newer low energy towers that we have purchased over the past few years may require only 100-125 cfm. Thus you can see why we are hopefull that these new snowlogic funs with prove out this year.

**MntMan4Bush** · 12-06-2011, 08:52 AM

Thanks Win. I'm sure that Sunday River's claim of 350+ snow guns at once was during optimal conditions so it wouldn't be fair to compare to them in anything but. In fact I'm not even sure it's fair to compare to them at all given how much they have invested in it. I'll be curious to see how many we can get going now using the new guns in good conditions and I'll be even happier to see that limit pushed early and often.

**HowieT2** · 12-06-2011, 10:31 AM

Thanks Win. 5 cfm is definitely something to get excited about. there should be some kind of energy tax credit for investing in this equipment.
One more question if you would be so kind, is 2000 gpm sufficient, such that with continuing investments to address the air issue, the capacity can be brought up to an acceptable level?

**boze** · 12-06-2011, 10:56 AM

From Sunday River's web site...which BTW also notes a relatively paltry 167" annual snowfall which makes a case for their having invested in some serious snow-making firepower:

Snowmaking
Terrain Coverage: 525 acres
Water Capacity: 9,000 gallons per minute
Air Capacity: 60,000 cubic feet per minute @ 150 psi
Snowmaking Capacity: 4 acre feet per hour
Snowmaking Arsenal: 1,900 guns
Miles of pipe in system (approximate): 72
Miles of hose in system (approximate): 30

**Hrdstrt** · 12-06-2011, 11:39 AM

Snow Logic does have a web site.

http://snowlogicusa.com/

Some neat stuff on there.

**MntMan4Bush** · 12-06-2011, 01:20 PM

That is impressive. The 1900 guns though may not be a fair representation. They can't run all at once of course. What is nice though is that many are stationary or set up semi-permanent so that when they want to switch zones to blow on they don't have to go drag all the hoses up or down one trail and move them to another.

**ducky** · 12-06-2011, 04:25 PM

Win, thanks for the detailed explanation. Let's hope for some cold weather and a great season to follow.

**gostan** · 12-07-2011, 06:52 AM

NECN is calling for 3-5 +/- inches of wet snow tonight into tomorrow morning in Vermont & then turning colder. Those snow/cold dances are working - finally!

**HowieT2** · 12-07-2011, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by gostan

NECN is calling for 3-5 +/- inches of wet snow tonight into tomorrow morning in Vermont & then turning colder. Those snow/cold dances are working - finally!

we are just north of the predicted heaviest accumulations. dance for some upslope as the storm pulls away.

**gostan** · 12-07-2011, 07:16 AM

I know...just south of us is an expected up to 8 inches of snow at elevation. The 3-5 estimate comes from NWS. All in all, the important change is that temps are going to drop to allow some steady snowmaking.

**boze** · 12-07-2011, 11:33 PM

Looking at the Okemo web cam at 1115p shows that a bit South of us is getting rain / mixed precip. With winter programs slated to start this weekend our Okemo family friends are having to hoof it to Killington during the days to get some 'snow time' for the race teams - kinda like ice time at the hockey rink. Feel bad for those folks while also happy our more Northern latitude is aiding our situation this time.

I just hope we're also able to take advantage of the chilly temp and run the snow guns tonight and tap the extra efficiency that Ma Nature is providing via these lower temps. Hopefully the winds aren't precluding that.