Snowmaking?

[MntMan4Bush]

Before I go on about number of trails open, etc. my friend suggested I ask this question:

Does Sugarbush have the capability to make more snow then they currently are? For example can snow be made on:

A) Upper mountain single line only. Like it was on Saturday; Upper Jester to Downspout.

B) Upper mountain multiple lines? Like Upper Jester full blast AND Organgrinder full blast? I saw both trails getting hit Sunday, but it looked like Organgrinder and Jester were not going all out on each. Is this due to an inability to do so or a decision based on other factors?

C) Upper and Lower mountain at the same time but single area? For instance Organgrinder and Spring Fling?

D) Anywhere they damn well please all over the mountain. Such as Organgrinder, Springfling, Waterfall and a fan gun blasting the base like Charlie Sheen attacking a spilled bag of flour?

To generalize can snow only be made in one area at a time? If the answer is yes then I guess there's no point in asking why more snow wasn't being made.

But if the mountain has the ability then why are we failing here? To say 3 trails open is not accurate. There was one trail open and barely so as it wasn't top to bottom. I went Friday, stuck around Saturday hoping for Organgrinder to open up even as I got blasted in the face by guns and wind on the only trail open funneling people down it and came back Sunday only to be disappointed again. My friend went to Killington (Don't mean to frighten anyone with that name) to find 23 trails listed as open which translated to 15-16 separate trails of actual skiing (linking connectors and BS trail listings) with a few top to bottom. Now I recognize SB doesn't have the coinage that they have so we don't have to beat them at the early season game, but how about not going down in the 1st round. How about being a contender?

I was glad to get out and make a few turns but I was disappointed in the inability to get terrain open at this point in the season even though it's early. If all the other mountains were in the same boat and suffering from weather patterns then I couldn't complain. Since that's not the case here I am. Having everyone on only one trail and reducing visibility by coating my goggles with ice at every turn as opposed to working on Organgrinder or another trail during the day didn't help my enjoyability either. (Can you believe "enjoyability" doesn't set off the spell check? who would have thought that was a real word?)

[chuck]

patience grasshopper...

[Last Tracks]

Organgrinder opened this morning. The top 2/3rds was skiing very nicely. I took 5 laps on it and went home at 11.

[arc1]

Look at it this way, we have very nice buildings to hang out in until it snows.

This is an age old topic here, and one of great frustration to many who consider how feeble the Bush's snowmaking capacity and quality is. Last weekend was a good example as the guns were essentially spraying water. I could do a better job with my thumb over a garden hose.

I get around to quite a few resorts over the span of a season, and now I can only assume that our water has properties different from any other water supply in the country. Properties that are unique to the MRV. Properties so mysterious that consistent man made snow quality is not possible with currently known technology. Properties so dangerous that water pipes explode randomly. Properties so elusive that huge amounts of yellow ice routinely encrust trees and lift towers. Properties so unpredictable that it is just too risky to make snow on more than one trail at any time.

After years of conjecture, that's the theory I've settled on. Or maybe it's a budget/proiority thing, but I'm pretty sure it's all in the water.

[Tin Woodsman]

Before I go on about number of trails open, etc. my friend suggested I ask this question:

Does Sugarbush have the capability to make more snow then they currently are? For example can snow be made on:

A) Upper mountain single line only. Like it was on Saturday; Upper Jester to Downspout.

B) Upper mountain multiple lines? Like Upper Jester full blast AND Organgrinder full blast? I saw both trails getting hit Sunday, but it looked like Organgrinder and Jester were not going all out on each. Is this due to an inability to do so or a decision based on other factors?

C) Upper and Lower mountain at the same time but single area? For instance Organgrinder and Spring Fling?

D) Anywhere they damn well please all over the mountain. Such as Organgrinder, Springfling, Waterfall and a fan gun blasting the base like Charlie Sheen attacking a spilled bag of flour?

To generalize can snow only be made in one area at a time? If the answer is yes then I guess there's no point in asking why more snow wasn't being made.

But if the mountain has the ability then why are we failing here? To say 3 trails open is not accurate. There was one trail open and barely so as it wasn't top to bottom. I went Friday, stuck around Saturday hoping for Organgrinder to open up even as I got blasted in the face by guns and wind on the only trail open funneling people down it and came back Sunday only to be disappointed again. My friend went to Killington (Don't mean to frighten anyone with that name) to find 23 trails listed as open which translated to 15-16 separate trails of actual skiing (linking connectors and BS trail listings) with a few top to bottom. Now I recognize SB doesn't have the coinage that they have so we don't have to beat them at the early season game, but how about not going down in the 1st round. How about being a contender?

I was glad to get out and make a few turns but I was disappointed in the inability to get terrain open at this point in the season even though it's early. If all the other mountains were in the same boat and suffering from weather patterns then I couldn't complain. Since that's not the case here I am. Having everyone on only one trail and reducing visibility by coating my goggles with ice at every turn as opposed to working on Organgrinder or another trail during the day didn't help my enjoyability either. (Can you believe "enjoyability" doesn't set off the spell check? who would have thought that was a real word?)

This really gets to the heart of what the whole snowmaking discussion has focused on over the years. It's not about trying to open early and stay open later, though those are laudable goals if they can be financially justified. Rather, it's about increasing trail count with good depth as quickly as possible so as to make for a more attractive product in the early season and after thaws. SB will never have the firepower of K-Mart, nor do they need to, but even Stowe has two separate ways down the mountain open, consisting of 4.5 miles of trails all the way down to the 1600' elevation. The only major mtn in VT with which SB's open terrain currently compares favorably is Jay Peak, and it's not saying much when you are vying to stay out of last place.

Anyway, I'm not sure there's anything new here. This is the same old issue. Despite some improvements on the margin on specific trails and in terms of quality, they just don't have the firepower to expand trail counts and base depths as compared to nearly all of their major competitors. That's not going to change until and unless they can invest major coin in debottlenecking what's there, as well as in improving/expanding the on-hill delivery of what they pump. Hard to blame Win for prioritizing the LP base improvements, GMX and C-Rock replacements first in line. That said, it will be interesting to see what decisions are made on the snowmaking front in the next few years now that the real festering wounds in the overall SB offering have been fixed.

[Hawk]

The simple anwser is that they do not have the capacity to blow on more than one route at a time. I believe if they have temps they can blow one route top to bottom. And with the new main and pump house in place at Lincoln, it isn't water pressure that is the problem. It's the amount of compressed air.

Sorry dude, the mountian you chose to ski is a place of power from heaven not hoses.

[Tin Woodsman]

The simple anwser is that they do not have the capacity to blow on more than one route at a time. I believe if they have temps they can blow one route top to bottom. And with the new main and pump house in place at Lincoln, it isn't water pressure that is the problem. It's the amount of compressed air.

Sorry dude, the mountian you chose to ski is a place of power from heaven not hoses.

We're at Grand Targhee?

[boze]

More likely Heaven
As in high up there
As in Alta

[Plowboy]

The simple anwser is that they do not have the capacity to blow on more than one route at a time. I believe if they have temps they can blow one route top to bottom. And with the new main and pump house in place at Lincoln, it isn't water pressure that is the problem. It's the amount of compressed air.

Sorry dude, the mountian you chose to ski is a place of power from heaven not hoses.

We're at Grand Targhee?

Cat skiing



My son went sat. with his cousin's. Their words "IT SUCKED".

[klop]

Sorry dude, the mountian you chose to ski is a place of power from heaven not hoses.[/quote]

Tahoe has received ten FEET already. Sigh ...

[Hawk]

The simple anwser is that they do not have the capacity to blow on more than one route at a time. I believe if they have temps they can blow one route top to bottom. And with the new main and pump house in place at Lincoln, it isn't water pressure that is the problem. It's the amount of compressed air.

Sorry dude, the mountian you chose to ski is a place of power from heaven not hoses.

We're at Grand Targhee?

Yes I borrowed the tag line but it still holds true. We certainly do not ski here for the snowmaking. When it does fall from the sky, and it does at greater frequency than most other places, this is certainly one of the best resorts in the east.

[MntMan4Bush]

Does that one route, top to bottom or not, mean one route at all of South? Or one route in a pod? So they can't blow something on HG pod and Spring Fling at the same time? Or does it more split on an axis such as they could blow on HG pod and something at Gatehouse. I seem to remember days (though far too infrequently) with more than one set of guns going at a time. I guess I'm trying to figure out their real capacity. I mean I saw all the talk about fixed pipes and continued commitment to snowmaking so we have the marketing aspect down. I was just hoping we'd have the actual operation down as well.

[skierdon]

I'm anxious as well, but frankly I'd rather minimal snowmaking. It's noisy and creates crappy snow. I can ski on man-made snow in Virginia.

I have a good feeling about the 2nd half of December.

[MntMan4Bush]

I'm anxious as well, but frankly I'd rather minimal snowmaking. It's noisy and creates crappy snow. I can ski on man-made snow in Virginia.

I have a good feeling about the 2nd half of December.

This has got to be my buddy Derek under a fake user name busting my chops right? It's already November 30th but you have your sights set on the 2nd half of December/ What about next week or the week after? Why not wait for a good March? Too noisy? There is no way this isn't you man. Good one. I appreciate you stacking wood the last weekend, but I'm not falling for this. I'm NOT!!!

[HowieT2]

The simple anwser is that they do not have the capacity to blow on more than one route at a time. I believe if they have temps they can blow one route top to bottom. And with the new main and pump house in place at Lincoln, it isn't water pressure that is the problem. It's the amount of compressed air.

Sorry dude, the mountian you chose to ski is a place of power from heaven not hoses.

Limited capacity is the only reasonable explanation.
Wish it would snow already.