Tin Woodsman wrote:

Clay Brook defintiely looks out of place right now given its size. I think it's design will generally be a winner, as opposed to the generic crap that is the Grand Summit Hotels at ASC resorts. While it does tower over the other structures in the base area today, I think that will be ameliorated by the imminent construction of the Skier Services Bldg and the new Gate House Lodge. Both of these structures will be far larger (in height and width) than what is currently sitting on their footprint and will help to make Clay Brook fit in a little better.

....that when the whole thing is in place, buildings and landscaping together, that the look and feel should "work". Lest we forget how scrufty the parking lot "initial impression" used to be, and that was in winter. Non-winter months.....personally....I felt it was bordering on a wasteland feel....

Thanks, Tin. I didn't realize that the north side of the project would be so built out. Do you know the purpose of bldgs. A4b, B1 and B2? I assume skier services (which includes all the stuff now based in the temp. structures) is all in A4a? The new Gatehouse Lodge does look huge. Do you know whether the existing structure will be completely torn down? (Sorry for all the questions!).

Regarding Claybrook proper, true. they aren't selling like the Ritz at SLC, but it does look as though they've got a large percentage of the 3, 4 and 5 bedroom space sold (which I'd guess would be the toughest sell). I'm no expert, but I find it hard to believe that an appropriate amount of true slopeside accomodations won't sell nicely, and Claybrook's 60+ units, given the scarcity of slopeside accomodations at SB (and almost everywhere else in the NE), just doesn't intuitively seem like too much.

smootharc wrote:

personally....I felt it was bordering on a wasteland feel....

You have to accept the idea that during any major construction phase, ski resort base or highway, the visuals are not going to be very pleasing. Look past that to what it will look like when it is finished.

Think of a road construction site in your area. Maybe it was a nightmare during construction but now that it has been completed, the hassles of construction are totally forgotten.

For years the base area of Jackson Hole,Teton Village, remained devoid of major new developement. Then things started happening, big fancy hotels, condo projects, huge cranes everywhere for over 2 years. Everyone complained. Now that it is done, everything looks great , everyone is happy.

When the wife and I took the Amtrak(the Downeaster) from Portland to the then Fleet Center to see CSN&Y you get off at the North Station in Boston, right in the middle of a huge constuction project(the Big Dig). We commented to each that the area made you feel you just ended up in Beruit after several bombings. But, we knew in a couple of years things would look better and they do.

Look past the construction, don't pass judgement until it is finished. SV has a vision for the base area, let them play it out. I am very excited as to what the base will look like a year, 2 years from now. Maybe I will end up with egg on my face, that's cool. Maybe the finished product will totally suck.....I'm betting it will be great.

The "wasteland" comment I took to mean the look of a scraggly, barren dustbowl parking lot up there in the summer overall. The new facilities and landscaping will go a long way to making the base area more vibrant in all seasons.

Fourwide: yes, gatehouse will be totally razed very shortly after closing for the season. I too like the looks of the Lodge and once the buildout is done, will blend nicely with the surroundings.

Hang in there, guys and gals.

ski_resort_observer wrote:

When the wife and I took the Amtrak(the Downeaster) from Portland to the then Fleet Center to see CSN&Y you get off at the North Station in Boston, right in the middle of a huge constuction project(the Big Dig). We commented to each that the area made you feel you just ended up in Beruit after several bombings. But, we knew in a couple of years things would look better and they do.

The Big Dig is a construction project that will never end... It's one problem after another. Let's hope the Bush does a little better than Boston.

noski wrote:

The "wasteland" comment I took to mean the look of a scraggly, barren dustbowl parking lot up there in the summer overall. The new facilities and landscaping will go a long way to making the base area more vibrant in all seasons.

....comment was indeed just for the area of the parking lot....barren, windy, dusty. One of the things I liked the most from SV's Lincoln peak plan was the landscaping in the parking area.

I'm rooting for success, and think SB will get there. I agree with the comments that the current "administrations" heart seems to be in the right place....and would add that minor missteps and sideways moves are probably both to be expected and natural in light of the overall complexity and scope of the project. I can't speak for Mr. Smith....but he must indeed really love this place, because if I was him I'd be skiing powder at my place at the Yellowstone Club, sleeping in, and having fun. Whereas he's out there putting alot on the line...and I'm guessing working like a dog.

skibum1321 wrote:

ski_resort_observer wrote: When the wife and I took the Amtrak(the Downeaster) from Portland to the then Fleet Center to see CSN&Y you get off at the North Station in Boston, right in the middle of a huge constuction project(the Big Dig). We commented to each that the area made you feel you just ended up in Beruit after several bombings. But, we knew in a couple of years things would look better and they do. The Big Dig is a construction project that will never end... It's one problem after another. Let's hope the Bush does a little better than Boston.

Me too...Yeah...realize the scale is alittle off. Took my son and a friend to Logan yesterday. The new bridge is awesome, especially at night, but, as you know, the problems(cost overruns,corruption,water leaking in everywhere, will linger for many years to come.

I dunno about many other people, but I kinda liked the old "wasteland" feel in the parking lot... it was nice to go up there and know that you're the only person on that entire huge mountain... alas, it is no more. But once you get up hiking a few hundred feet it will probably be okay

Fourwide wrote:

Thanks, Tin. I didn't realize that the north side of the project would be so built out. Do you know the purpose of bldgs. A4b, B1 and B2? I assume skier services (which includes all the stuff now based in the temp. structures) is all in A4a? The new Gatehouse Lodge does look huge. Do you know whether the existing structure will be completely torn down? (Sorry for all the questions!).

I don't know, actually. The skier services bldg is the one directly to the right (North) of Clay Brook. The other buildings on the North edge of the parking lot will presumably be lodging of some kind. If that gets built out, it would provide a real nice connection to SB Village, which can seem somewhat cut-off from the mountain with the current set-up.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

If that gets built out, it would provide a real nice connection to SB Village, which can seem somewhat cut-off from the mountain with the current set-up.

I agree 1000% and would be thrilled if that happened.

I have suggested for years to somehow connect the Gatehouse Base with Sugarbush Villege. I thought maybe a nice outdoor skating rink with a nice lighted pathway would be better than the current situation. The wall I always ran into was that Sugarbush(the ski resort) has no financial connection with Sugarbush Village.

One year ASC did make an attempt to put some businesses in the usually ghostown like Sugarbush Village by putting in a video/gameroom for kids and a convenience store/pizza place went in. Unfortunately they did not work out financially.

I just heard they've sold 80%+, from some SBush admin friends. That's gonna be the easy part. The challenge will be managing the new facilities at a higher level than what we're seeing now. Beautiful buildings with crappy, overpriced food and inferior service will not constitute progress.

....the valley real estate remains both tight, and solidly rising despite talk of RE bubble pullbacks in some areas of the country.

Is it perhaps that some of people looking to potentially buy in VT ski country, who are seeing the stratton/okemo/stowe pricing structures, eventually "think outside the box" and take a look at the valley....say hmmm....and add to the demand that seems to keep prices solidly heading up, and inventory tight ? Should be interesting when spring "listing season" hits, and with the increased inventory and owner price expectations, how the product moves.

Treehugger wrote:

I just heard they've sold 80%+, from some SBush admin friends. That's gonna be the easy part. The challenge will be managing the new facilities at a higher level than what we're seeing now. Beautiful buildings with crappy, overpriced food and inferior service will not constitute progress.

Well that isn't what the website says, though it's entirely possible that it hasn't been updated in a while. We could both be "right" in that maybe 80% of the units have at least a fractional owner, but they might not be fully committed for the year. If 80% of all quarter shares have been spoken for, then that's truly great progress considering what a crap snow year it's been, but I've seen no evidence of such.

Amen on your second point, brother. If you're going to do this, do it right and DON'T continue to "learn on the job" on the resort side of the business. Bring in a seasoned pro who has done this before and can get Clay Brook off the ground on the right foot. Cliche warning - you only have one chance to make a good first impression. Wouldn't it be great if the only feedback coming out of Clay Brook owners in YUear 1 was how well it was being run and how glad they are they bought into SB and, by extention, SV. That would provide a spring board for further real estate opportunities on the northern edge of the parking lot and go a long way towards ensuring the long-term health of a ski area that most of us have come to love.

Yeah, I see what you mean about 80% of the quarter shares. More like 60% of available shares, but at least a share of almost all the units. I guess ya gotta spin positive.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

Treehugger wrote: I just heard they've sold 80%+, from some SBush admin friends. That's gonna be the easy part. The challenge will be managing the new facilities at a higher level than what we're seeing now. Beautiful buildings with crappy, overpriced food and inferior service will not constitute progress. Well that isn't what the website says, though it's entirely possible that it hasn't been updated in a while. We could both be "right" in that maybe 80% of the units have at least a fractional owner, but they might not be fully committed for the year. If 80% of all quarter shares have been spoken for, then that's truly great progress considering what a crap snow year it's been, but I've seen no evidence of such. Amen on your second point, brother. If you're going to do this, do it right and DON'T continue to "learn on the job" on the resort side of the business. Bring in a seasoned pro who has done this before and can get Clay Brook off the ground on the right foot. Cliche warning - you only have one chance to make a good first impression. Wouldn't it be great if the only feedback coming out of Clay Brook owners in YUear 1 was how well it was being run and how glad they are they bought into SB and, by extention, SV. That would provide a spring board for further real estate opportunities on the northern edge of the parking lot and go a long way towards ensuring the long-term health of a ski area that most of us have come to love.

Quote:

Beautiful buildings with crappy, overpriced food and inferior service will not constitute progress.

First of all, I agree with you. I think the management would, also.

The questions would be:
1) In what way have you found the service to be inferior? I've heard much good and almost nothing bad about the service, both in helpfulness and friendliness, from surveys and people.

B) By crappy, overpriced food, are you referring to what you can make, or find in other ski resorts? And are you referring to the food in the lodge, or places like the Grill and Sugarbush Inn?

I think constructive criticism is always welcome.