smootharc wrote:

Thanks. I'll grab one at Clearwater this weekend. And just what do you think, I was born yesterday ? Sending some strange lady $5. Sheesh. How about I send you an $8 bill, and you send the map and keep the change ? I bet you've got a Tourist Information Kiosk on 100 for sale, cheap, too !

Hey! I resemble that remark! I am not that strange.

skibum1321 wrote:

Does it have the mountain biking trails mapped? The MadRiverRiders site has a map that is poor at best. It would be great to see directions to trailheads and maps of the trails (similar to Fellowship of the Wheel). This is probably out of your jurisdiction, though.

The Mountain Biking routes are like the last frontier. Frankly, I liken it to your (collective) thoughts on backcountry skiing. One doesn't tell publicly where the stashes and secrets are to be found. You hook up with a local/regular and learn where, when and how. The Mtn Biking is the same. You are on private property quite often and with a local "guide" you learn the boundaries.

noski wrote:

Frankly, I liken it to your (collective) thoughts on backcountry skiing. One doesn't tell publicly where the stashes and secrets are to be found. You hook up with a local/regular and learn where, when and how. The Mtn Biking is the same. You are on private property quite often and with a local "guide" you learn the boundaries.

...is the folks who aren't able to, or interested in, or aware of how to hook up with locals. They stumble and bumble around, ticking off the private owners, and access gets restricted. Everyone loses.

IMHO it is better to have clear instructions, trail maps, and boundries with regard to Mountain Biking. And unlike BC skiing, where first tracks is crucial, or at least preferred, Mtn. Biking trails don't hold anything equivalent to powder "stashes" that get chewed up or compromised by more traffic. The first roll through of the day isn't usually different from the last (except in terms of weather related), so the insider doesn't really get compromised from additional use. My .02.

smootharc wrote:

noski wrote: Frankly, I liken it to your (collective) thoughts on backcountry skiing. One doesn't tell publicly where the stashes and secrets are to be found. You hook up with a local/regular and learn where, when and how. The Mtn Biking is the same. You are on private property quite often and with a local "guide" you learn the boundaries. ...is the folks who aren't able to, or interested in, or aware of how to hook up with locals. They stumble and bumble around, ticking off the private owners, and access gets restricted. Everyone loses. IMHO it is better to have clear instructions, trail maps, and boundries with regard to Mountain Biking. And unlike BC skiing, where first tracks is crucial, or at least preferred, Mtn. Biking trails don't hold anything equivalent to powder "stashes" that get chewed up or compromised by more traffic. The first roll through of the day isn't usually different from the last (except in terms of weather related), so the insider doesn't really get compromised from additional use. My .02.

Totally agree with you there. Advocacy groups like the Fellowship have done a great job in opening trails to the general public and I see this as nothing but good. There are obviously issues that need to be dealt with regarding access and it is good to have a unified front for opening the trails to all.

I believe most of the land that the Fellowship maintains is public land (owned by the town). Most of Mtn. bike trails in the MRV are either accessed by private land, and or pass thru private land with permission from the land owners. Private Vs. Public. The Mad River Riders do a good job working with local private land owners.

noski wrote:

smootharc wrote: Absolutely. At least a master marked topographic map......Mtn. biking, hiking, snow shoe with good parking / access spots, and perhaps some public/private land indicators. The Mad River Path assoc. is a nice place for some starter info, but there seems to be so much more... Guess what? There is a such a map. Come to the chamber or go to Clearwater Sports and pick one up for $5 or send me $5 and I will mail you a map. Honest. It is as good a map as we will have for awhile. Swim holes marked, all public trails, topo, call outs for Camels Hump access, etc.

Is it this map: http://www.mapadventures.com/pr_mad_river_vt_walk_ramble.htm ?

I found that one at Outdoor Gear Exchange in Burlington... don't know of a better one than that.

For the more adventurous minded the Catamount Trail for x-c and snowshoing is a treat. I have only done the section from the Sugarbush Inn to the Mad River Barn and it was alot of fun. For a Guide Book describing all 300 miles can be gotten here.
http://www.catamounttrail.org/index.html

As a weekend resident I LOVE the Valley! It has a feel like no other ski town in VT and NH...When I describe it to fellow flatlanders I point out that the area had a "reason to be" long before skiing became an industry...The history of the Valley is rich and the mix of local business owners, farmers, transplants, outdoor enthusiasts, and weekend visitors is perfect...I love the fact that it is not "postcard perfect" like Stowe, that it is not all about the mountain like Ludlow etc...I like the Valley like I like Sugarbush - 35% groomed!...A decent breakfast place would be nice but a breakfast sandwich at Paradise is a reasonable second best...I am sure there are many little things you could do to IMPROVE the MRV but please do not groom all of the WARTS because to me that is what makes the place REAL!

Strat wrote:

noski wrote: smootharc wrote: Absolutely. At least a master marked topographic map......Mtn. biking, hiking, snow shoe with good parking / access spots, and perhaps some public/private land indicators. The Mad River Path assoc. is a nice place for some starter info, but there seems to be so much more... Guess what? There is a such a map. Come to the chamber or go to Clearwater Sports and pick one up for $5 or send me $5 and I will mail you a map. Honest. It is as good a map as we will have for awhile. Swim holes marked, all public trails, topo, call outs for Camels Hump access, etc. Is it this map: http://www.mapadventures.com/pr_mad_river_vt_walk_ramble.htm ? I found that one at Outdoor Gear Exchange in Burlington... don't know of a better one than that.

No, there is a MUCH better map now. It was issued Fall 2004, but MapAdventures was indeed the producer in conjunction with many local recreation-based organizations. Clearwater or Chamber, $5.

That sounds like a great map! I'll have to drop down and grab one.

On the original subject, swimming holes have been mentioned, but what I miss, around here, is lakes and ponds for swimming.

I grew up in the country, and there were always lakes around to swim in. Around here, there is the Res in Waterbury and Silver Lake in Brandon, but I've not found many other places where you can actually swim for some distance.

Are there some of those on that map, or are you guys going to start digging some out for me?

Lostone wrote:

That sounds like a great map! I'll have to drop down and grab one. On the original subject, swimming holes have been mentioned, but what I miss, around here, is lakes and ponds for swimming. I grew up in the country, and there were always lakes around to swim in. Around here, there is the Res in Waterbury and Silver Lake in Brandon, but I've not found many other places where you can actually swim for some distance. Are there some of those on that map, or are you guys going to start digging some out for me?

A pleasant place for a pond swim ? I thought that was public ????

As far as swimming holes....there is a guy Pancho Doll who got tons of national press for his swimming hole book and website (google him), but his review of Warren Falls was less than flattering, if I recall, mentioning lots of animal fecal matter. Not sure how he counted the bits.....

Another site, which loves Warren Falls and others in the valley:

http://www.swimmingholes.org/vt.html#MAD%20RIVER%20AREA

Hellooooo..... Blueberry Lake.... It has water in it now and I think you can swim pretty darned far. It is one of the bodies of water that is monitored biweekly by Friends of the Mad River during the warm months.

I'm a Masshole part-timer (condo owner up most weekends in winter), so bear with me...

Least favorite things
1) being on 89, 12 miles as the crow flies from MRV, but knowing I've got 50 minutes of driving left.
2) no convenience stores open by the time we get up there (11:00pm)
3) a central village area that once you get there, you can walk to many interesting shops (for wife and kids)
4) forgetting to call Flatbread at 4:31 and getting shut out (long waits elsewhere too)
5) the lack of Mexican food!
6) convenient place for my friends to rent snowmobiles - I may be wrong on this one

Favorite things
1) serenity
2) seeing deer, wild turkeys, various other wild animals
3) the lack of crowds (except during the restaurant rush)
4) the people
5) choice (MRG, South, North)
6) Paradise deli
7) options like sleigh rides, dog sledding, etc

Thing I'd most like to see: a complex that included an indoor skating rink, shops and restaurants for the family to spend several hours at (thus enabling me to spend all day on the mountain).

Mt St Pipier wrote:

I'm a Masshole part-timer (condo owner up most weekends in winter), so bear with me... Least favorite things 1) being on 89, 12 miles as the crow flies from MRV, but knowing I've got 50 minutes of driving left. 2) no convenience stores open by the time we get up there (11:00pm) 3) a central village area that once you get there, you can walk to many interesting shops (for wife and kids) 4) forgetting to call Flatbread at 4:31 and getting shut out (long waits elsewhere too) 5) the lack of Mexican food! 6) convenient place for my friends to rent snowmobiles - I may be wrong on this one).

Can't help you with 1, 3, 4, but I will speak to ICS/VG about considering closing later on Friday nights. That is reasonable to request.... and there sure are alot of Mexican food aficiandos out there I am learning! You are right about snow machines. No option here. Stowe Snowmobile Tours is best option, alternately Nichols in Stowe for low-thrills.

Mt St Pipier wrote:

Favorite things 1) serenity 2) seeing deer, wild turkeys, various other wild animals 3) the lack of crowds (except during the restaurant rush) 4) the people 5) choice (MRG, South, North) 6) Paradise deli 7) options like sleigh rides, dog sledding, etc Thing I'd most like to see: a complex that included an indoor skating rink, shops and restaurants for the family to spend several hours at (thus enabling me to spend all day on the mountain).

One day the Skatium may indeed be covered, if not more than in a Pavilion style (like at Lareau Farm) to protect the ice from sun and rain, but remaining open air. The talk is rising on ramping up that operation.

I had an excelent shrimp enchilada (sp) the other night at the Local Folk Smokehouse.

Taco Tuesday at the Hyde Away.