I am going to post 2 questions- rather than overload you with one long one.

What do you like LEAST about the MRV (or VT) and what do you love MOST about it? and further, what is the one thing you WISH the MRV had....While levity/creativity is fine & fun, give this some thought, as it is meant as a serious question. Now to question #2....(next thread, please)

....a combined SB & MRG season's pass.

What's to dislike ? Still trying to figure that one....perhaps no good Mexican chow shack at the moment ?

smootharc wrote:

....a combined SB & MRG season's pass.

I have been thinking about the logistics of this. We have the Ski The Valley lodging package ticket- so the dialog channel and relationship exists. How would, or could, it be priced in such a way that the two mountains do not incur a net decrease in revenue over stand-alone season passes?

Let's say the adult SB pass, early season rate, all mountain/all days is $1029. Mad River, adult, early season, is $680. If you price it at $1450- an arbitrary number- are we cannibalizing the Mad River pass purchases, or are we finding new pass buyers? Would you offer a whole different kind of pass in order to not cannibalize? limited usage/Mt Ellen only/blackout days?

This has been thrown around the conference table for years. I don't it will ever work and at present with all the cheap multi mountain deals it seems more unlikley. It's not that the two resorts don't get along...cause they do. The number you put forward is in the ballpark as to what has been discussed but I don't think there would be very many takers.

In the late 90's the Bush and Stowe had a SP together. There were many logistical problems. For example, when the Bush opened first those that purchased their passes thru Stowe had to get them at Stowe. In addition to the extra drive unfortunately Stowe's computer was down so they were SOL. People could not understand why the two resorts did not, would not, share databases. I talked to alot of angry people that day.

Little know fact about the Ski the Valley packages. Since MRG's lift tiks are less than the Bush's and is factored in the package rates you can get a Ski the Valley package and just ski the Bush and save a few bucks versus a regular Sugarbush package. Not alot but enough to buy a nice dinner or get stinking drunk apres ski.

If you really want to ski both the best way is to get a job with either as I believe each resort honor's the other's employee passes or at least they used to.

What I like least about the MRV outside of skiing is that there's no "there" there. It seems like a lot of the development is spread out between Warren, Waitsfield, Rt. 100, SB Access Rd, and Rt. 17. It's hard to get a sense of place while you're there whereas when you're at Stowe, you've got the town and Rt. 108. K-Mart is ugly for sure, but just about everything is on the access rd. There's no core to the MRV.

Also, it would be nice when entering the MRV from the major routes into it (from 100 through Granville Gulf, on 17 over Ap Gap, 100 from Waterbury and 100B in the Moretown area) to have signage welcoming you to the MRV to try and unite it in the visitor's mind as a single entity. Right now it's Warren and Waitsfield and maybe Fayston and Moretown in the minds of a few - it's not a cohesive whole.

I'm getting off-track here, but how about having a stand with those MRV visitor pamphlets right next to the ticket windows at SB and MRG (and Ole's, FWIW).

The properties on the Rt. 100 corridor between SB and Rt. 17 leave something to be desired. Seemingly lots of abandoned properties and some with just a bunch of junk lying around in the yard.

The information stand at the base of the SB access road looks like it's been abandoned for years. In fact, the entire gateway to SB at the base of the access rd is quite unattractive. Again, a lot of these things are entirely out of your control or are out of scope, but I'm just typing stream of consciousness here.

Riffing off of smootharc's idea, how about and MRG+ pass. This would be a pass good at MRG and at SB only on days when MRG isn't operating. Baseline price would be MRG's standard pass price plus an increment that would go to SB - maybe $150-200?

It would be great to have an integrated MRV trail system - both hiking and mtn biking - that took advantage of both ski areas and the rest of the valley area.

As for what I like most, it's the skiing, the people, and the VT vibe. No pretention. No attitude. I love the lack of crowds. I love that I can get fresh meat and produce at Mehurons. I love that the local ski areas are owned by locals (for the most part) and not by a faceless, unaccountable corporation. Sure I was disappointed that Gate House was down on Saturday, but it was nice to see Win blowing up people's cell phones trying to get it fixed. He wants to ski too!

AWESOME- Thanks! I have made comments on some of these, fwiw.....

Tin Woodsman wrote:

What I like least about the MRV outside of skiing is that there's no "there" there. It seems like a lot of the development is spread out between Warren, Waitsfield, Rt. 100, SB Access Rd, and Rt. 17. It's hard to get a sense of place while you're there whereas when you're at Stowe, you've got the town and Rt. 108. K-Mart is ugly for sure, but just about everything is on the access rd. There's no core to the MRV. Also, it would be nice when entering the MRV from the major routes into it (from 100 through Granville Gulf, on 17 over Ap Gap, 100 from Waterbury and 100B in the Moretown area) to have signage welcoming you to the MRV to try and unite it in the visitor's mind as a single entity. Right now it's Warren and Waitsfield and maybe Fayston and Moretown in the minds of a few - it's not a cohesive whole.

This has been kicked around in different forms. Rt 100 is in the process of being named a "Scenic Highway". With that comes some $$- this endeavor would qualify under the Fed criteria. That would be a way to fund the project.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

I'm getting off-track here, but how about having a stand with those MRV visitor pamphlets right next to the ticket windows at SB and MRG (and Ole's, FWIW).

I'm on it.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

The properties on the Rt. 100 corridor between SB and Rt. 17 leave something to be desired. Seemingly lots of abandoned properties and some with just a bunch of junk lying around in the yard.

Can't help you with that one. Other than Hap's, I can't picture other offenders. I figure it's better to have all the junk cars in one place than all over the Valley in people's yards... They haul them out twice a year.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

The information stand at the base of the SB access road looks like it's been abandoned for years. In fact, the entire gateway to SB at the base of the access rd is quite unattractive. Again, a lot of these things are entirely out of your control or are out of scope, but I'm just typing stream of consciousness here.

Chamber is already negotiating with the landowner on this. Slow going, but is still moving forward.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

Riffing off of smootharc's idea, how about and MRG+ pass. This would be a pass good at MRG and at SB only on days when MRG isn't operating. Baseline price would be MRG's standard pass price plus an increment that would go to SB - maybe $150-200?

Interesting comprimise..... Let me run that around a bit.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

It would be great to have an integrated MRV trail system - both hiking and mtn biking - that took advantage of both ski areas and the rest of the valley area.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

As for what I like most, it's the skiing, the people, and the VT vibe. No pretention. No attitude. I love the lack of crowds. I love that I can get fresh meat and produce at Mehurons. I love that the local ski areas are owned by locals (for the most part) and not by a faceless, unaccountable corporation. Sure I was disappointed that Gate House was down on Saturday, but it was nice to see Win blowing up people's cell phones trying to get it fixed. He wants to ski too!

If you tell two friends, they'll tell two friends....

To echo Tin, the fallen down buildings at the bottom of the SB access IS a mess. Memory serves it's owned by someone out of the country(maybe Venezuala?) who could not care less about what it looks like. It's gotta be worth plenty. Then again, if it was torn down probably end up with some ugly convenience store there. The abandoned info center has become abit of a local joke. Curious if the pay phone is still there and working? Love the guy waving in the window.

I agree and disagree with the idea of no one central village like Stowe or Ludlow. Stowe Village is a classic but Rt 108 is alot of ugly sprawl heading up to the mountain. I look at the valley as having two villages, each with it's own character and charm. Irasville is another story entirely...

noski wrote:

This has been kicked around in different forms. Rt 100 is in the process of being named a "Scenic Highway". With that comes some $$- this endeavor would qualify under the Fed criteria. That would be a way to fund the project.

Well that covers Rt. 100 (once the govt machinery cranks through - no telling timetables on that) but what about the Ap Gap and 100B? You'd need four signs, two for 100, and one each on the other roads. Standard design, big bright letters saying welcome to the MRV.

Quote:

Can't help you with that one. Other than Hap's, I can't picture other offenders. I figure it's better to have all the junk cars in one place than all over the Valley in people's yards... They haul them out twice a year.

I guess I'm talking about the few places on the East side of the road with ugly 70s designs that look semi-abandoned. I think one is/was a hotel of some kind and it's hard to tell what the others are.

Quote:

Chamber is already negotiating with the landowner on this. Slow going, but is still moving forward.

Which landowner? The one where the info booth is or the one across the street where that white house is busy falling down?
And regardless of which landowner you're talking about, is there any idea of dealing with the problem across the street?

Quote:

If you tell two friends, they'll tell two friends....

I've told more than that this month alone.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

noski wrote: This has been kicked around in different forms. Rt 100 is in the process of being named a "Scenic Highway". With that comes some $$- this endeavor would qualify under the Fed criteria. That would be a way to fund the project. Well that covers Rt. 100 (once the govt machinery cranks through - no telling timetables on that) but what about the Ap Gap and 100B? You'd need four signs, two for 100, and one each on the other roads. Standard design, big bright letters saying welcome to the MRV.

Gotcha- nice little MRV graphic and Welcome!

Tin Woodsman wrote:

Quote: Can't help you with that one. Other than Hap's, I can't picture other offenders. I figure it's better to have all the junk cars in one place than all over the Valley in people's yards... They haul them out twice a year. I guess I'm talking about the few places on the East side of the road with ugly 70s designs that look semi-abandoned. I think one is/was a hotel of some kind and it's hard to tell what the others are.

The former hotel (Alpen Inn) is now Yestermorrow Design & Build School, but definite 70's design.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

Quote: Chamber is already negotiating with the landowner on this. Slow going, but is still moving forward. Which landowner? The one where the info booth is or the one across the street where that white house is busy falling down? And regardless of which landowner you're talking about, is there any idea of dealing with the problem across the street?

The information booth is on private property, not town property- and the falling-down house and barn on the corner of 100/Access Rd was removed last summer. Removed- as in bulldozed and burned- in exchange for being allowed to dismantle and keep the barn pieces that they took as payment for the job.

Quote:

If you tell two friends, they'll tell two friends....

I've told more than that this month alone. [/quote]

Good ideas and observations. Get that man a gun.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

Riffing off of smootharc's idea, how about and MRG+ pass. This would be a pass good at MRG and at SB only on days when MRG isn't operating. Baseline price would be MRG's standard pass price plus an increment that would go to SB - maybe $150-200?

I forgot about the logistics of my MRG pass....both my boys, and next year my girl, get season's passes on my one lousy adult pass. Can't beat that deal, and probably no way to merge that kind of pricing with a SB set up that replicates it.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

It would be great to have an integrated MRV trail system - both hiking and mtn biking - that took advantage of both ski areas and the rest of the valley area.

Absolutely. At least a master marked topographic map......Mtn. biking, hiking, snow shoe with good parking / access spots, and perhaps some public/private land indicators. The Mad River Path assoc. is a nice place for some starter info, but there seems to be so much more...

Tin Woodsman wrote:

The properties on the Rt. 100 corridor between SB and Rt. 17 leave something to be desired. Seemingly lots of abandoned properties and some with just a bunch of junk lying around in the yard.

Rt. 100 is like that from begining to end. "One man's junk is another man's treasure" As property values rise, maybe some of this will change. But, I wouldn't hold my breath too long!

I agree the old Top Gas information booth should be utilized better. I know a couple x inn keepers put a lot of work into getting that going. Nice to see that the Chamber is working on it.

smootharc wrote:

Absolutely. At least a master marked topographic map......Mtn. biking, hiking, snow shoe with good parking / access spots, and perhaps some public/private land indicators. The Mad River Path assoc. is a nice place for some starter info, but there seems to be so much more...

Guess what? There is a such a map. Come to the chamber or go to Clearwater Sports and pick one up for $5 or send me $5 and I will mail you a map. Honest. It is as good a map as we will have for awhile. Swim holes marked, all public trails, topo, call outs for Camels Hump access, etc.

noski wrote:

smootharc wrote: Absolutely. At least a master marked topographic map......Mtn. biking, hiking, snow shoe with good parking / access spots, and perhaps some public/private land indicators. The Mad River Path assoc. is a nice place for some starter info, but there seems to be so much more... Guess what? There is a such a map. Come to the chamber or go to Clearwater Sports and pick one up for $5 or send me $5 and I will mail you a map. Honest. It is as good a map as we will have for awhile. Swim holes marked, all public trails, topo, call outs for Camels Hump access, etc.

Thanks. I'll grab one at Clearwater this weekend. And just what do you think, I was born yesterday ? Sending some strange lady $5. Sheesh. How about I send you an $8 bill, and you send the map and keep the change ? I bet you've got a Tourist Information Kiosk on 100 for sale, cheap, too !

What I like most about the MRV is the beauty of fields, farms, woods and mountains with fabulous relatively uncrowded skiing. The MRV isn't perfect but very scenic.

What I like least is the current lack of early morning breakfast in the MRV (ie someplace that opens at 6:00 AM and serves sit down food).

noski wrote:

smootharc wrote: Absolutely. At least a master marked topographic map......Mtn. biking, hiking, snow shoe with good parking / access spots, and perhaps some public/private land indicators. The Mad River Path assoc. is a nice place for some starter info, but there seems to be so much more... Guess what? There is a such a map. Come to the chamber or go to Clearwater Sports and pick one up for $5 or send me $5 and I will mail you a map. Honest. It is as good a map as we will have for awhile. Swim holes marked, all public trails, topo, call outs for Camels Hump access, etc.

Does it have the mountain biking trails mapped? The MadRiverRiders site has a map that is poor at best. It would be great to see directions to trailheads and maps of the trails (similar to Fellowship of the Wheel). This is probably out of your jurisdiction, though.