I just have to laugh...this is the biggest bunch of whinny ass "back country" skiers I have ever encountered. What happened to the good old days when you had to walk, hitch or plan ahead to get back to the lodge if you dared to ski out-of-bounds. You people have it so damn good that you just don't seem to know what to whine about.

And I am not sure some of you get it...but you do realize that when you complain about little kids getting on the bus in front of you...no matter what the situation...there is no way to sound like you're right. It is a pissing into the wind situation...you might feel relieved but you are still covered in piss at the end.

That said. I love the MadBus and the only thing I wish is that they would run year around (like they were originally sanctioned to do) so that more people would use them.

jkvt

Right on!

Guess what. Kids that learn that they can push their way onto a bus ahead of everyone else who have been waiting become adults who think it's alright. Any harm in teaching a kid manners and patience at a young age??? My guess is that those people who push themselves ahead of everyone else now were once kids who got to because their parents never stepped up to teach them right and wrong. Just me whining some more I guess. Whine. Whine. Whine. When my opinion differs from yours its just whine whine whine. Cracks me up. Step in line. The complacency booth is over there.

MntMan4Bush wrote:

Guess what. Kids that learn that they can push their way onto a bus ahead of everyone else who have been waiting become adults who think it's alright. Any harm in teaching a kid manners and patience at a young age??? My guess is that those people who push themselves ahead of everyone else now were once kids who got to because their parents never stepped up to teach them right and wrong. Just me whining some more I guess. Whine. Whine. Whine. When my opinion differs from yours its just whine whine whine. Cracks me up. Step in line. The complacency booth is over there.

I don't think anyone was referring to kids pushing their way onto the bus, but groups of blazers who are being shepherded by their instructor and whether the latter should be given some priority and courtesy. I would agree that the former deserve 'nothing more than a polite lesson on etiquette and patience. However, for reasons previously mentioned, I would step aside for a group of blazers.

HowieT2 wrote:

MntMan4Bush wrote: Guess what. Kids that learn that they can push their way onto a bus ahead of everyone else who have been waiting become adults who think it's alright. Any harm in teaching a kid manners and patience at a young age??? My guess is that those people who push themselves ahead of everyone else now were once kids who got to because their parents never stepped up to teach them right and wrong. Just me whining some more I guess. Whine. Whine. Whine. When my opinion differs from yours its just whine whine whine. Cracks me up. Step in line. The complacency booth is over there. I don't think anyone was referring to kids pushing their way onto the bus, but groups of blazers who are being shepherded by their instructor and whether the latter should be given some priority and courtesy. I would agree that the former deserve 'nothing more than a polite lesson on etiquette and patience. However, for reasons previously mentioned, I would step aside for a group of blazers.

Yes (exactly) sorry if that was not clear in my post. As for the whining I was referring to was not that it was a differing opinion, which I actually enjoy because if we all had the same opinion it would be a really dull world, the whining comes from the whole plethora of comments from lots of people (hardly focusing one just one) on when and how the bus should pick people up who take it upon themselves to ski OB. Having spent years of hiking to earn my turns and planning ahead by parking cars everywhere along roads to get back to civilization I do think that some of the comments qualified as whining (JMHO). You finish a great run of fantastic turns in a pristine and beautiful surrounding...chill out...crack a beer or two, smoke a J or whatever and reflect on just how friggin amazing it is to be here and now and be psyched that you don't have to strap on snowshoes and hike back to the top for your second run.

JMHO - YMMV

jkvt

I appreciate that you are being nostalgic about older days. If we just focused on what thing used to be like we'd still be driving a manual transmission ford fairmont station wagon with rusted out sides because it was better then the horse and buggy and listening to cassette tapes because rocking out to AC/DC on tape was so much better then 8-track. Not to bust your chops or anything, but let's not get all caught in "modern" technology such as buses and public transportation. The fact is they're here and we should act with a certain decorum when dealing with them. I think pretty much international standard is first in, first out. (This concept by the way is completely foreign in the Near and Middle East where general pushing and shoving in any line is fully acceptable and in practice. Be warned)

In any case I digress. What is being talked about is why does one group get priority over another on a publicly funded bus. If you just came down and couldn't get on the bus it's a negligible difference (you only have to wait 30 minutes), but if you didn't make that bus and got bumped from the next one we're talking a decent amount of time not making turns. Let's forget about the fact that before there were combustible engines people would walk up hill both ways to get their turns in. Now if the argument is that tour groups and Blazers (or any other group for that matter) pays more then what about me? I have an all Mountain 7 Season Pass. I pay at least as much as the blazers do and certainly more then a guided tour at $65 a day. In fact I probably come up well more then the people doing the tour and drop some considerable coin into the CR pub and Timbers. So if we're talking about some people spending more then others we are probably not looking at the whole picture. You can also add in those people who have Sugarbush Condos and in some way subsidize the bus themselves through condo fees, etc. All that being said even though I may spend more then some Joey in a given season it doesn't give me the right to get on the bus ahead of them if they were there first. Now I'm not suggesting we act like animals here. If its a freezing cold day and there's some unhappy kids scampering about it's up to the individuals to make the decision whether it makes sense to be a decent human being or not. Some people might surprise you. It shouldn't be a given though because we all pay in some way and all deserve the privilege of a fair and equal service.

That's all just my humble opinion as well. Call it whining if you will, but hey it's my observation. Am I happy to have the bus at all. Sure am, but I'm certainly not happy with certain individuals getting special treatment over others. Everyone should learn patience and common courtesy and practice oith whenever possible.

MntMan4Bush wrote:

I appreciate that you are being nostalgic about older days. If we just focused on what thing used to be like we'd still be driving a manual transmission ford fairmont station wagon with rusted out sides because it was better then the horse and buggy and listening to cassette tapes because rocking out to AC/DC on tape was so much better then 8-track. Not to bust your chops or anything, but let's not get all caught in "modern" technology such as buses and public transportation. The fact is they're here and we should act with a certain decorum when dealing with them. I think pretty much international standard is first in, first out. (This concept by the way is completely foreign in the Near and Middle East where general pushing and shoving in any line is fully acceptable and in practice. Be warned) In any case I digress. What is being talked about is why does one group get priority over another on a publicly funded bus. If you just came down and couldn't get on the bus it's a negligible difference (you only have to wait 30 minutes), but if you didn't make that bus and got bumped from the next one we're talking a decent amount of time not making turns. Let's forget about the fact that before there were combustible engines people would walk up hill both ways to get their turns in. Now if the argument is that tour groups and Blazers (or any other group for that matter) pays more then what about me? I have an all Mountain 7 Season Pass. I pay at least as much as the blazers do and certainly more then a guided tour at $65 a day. In fact I probably come up well more then the people doing the tour and drop some considerable coin into the CR pub and Timbers. So if we're talking about some people spending more then others we are probably not looking at the whole picture. You can also add in those people who have Sugarbush Condos and in some way subsidize the bus themselves through condo fees, etc. All that being said even though I may spend more then some Joey in a given season it doesn't give me the right to get on the bus ahead of them if they were there first. Now I'm not suggesting we act like animals here. If its a freezing cold day and there's some unhappy kids scampering about it's up to the individuals to make the decision whether it makes sense to be a decent human being or not. Some people might surprise you. It shouldn't be a given though because we all pay in some way and all deserve the privilege of a fair and equal service. That's all just my humble opinion as well. Call it whining if you will, but hey it's my observation. Am I happy to have the bus at all. Sure am, but I'm certainly not happy with certain individuals getting special treatment over others. Everyone should learn patience and common courtesy and practice oith whenever possible.

I think we are having a difference over nomenclature. I, for one, was not arguing that the blazer groups should have some contractual/constitutional priority over someone waiting ahead of them. Although you should know that they pay a significant amount over and above their season passes. The way I see it, it is simply a matter of courtesy and a recognition that as adults we are better equipped to wait for the next bus then a bunch of kids and their instructor. Maybe it's because I have a 7 year old female blazer and I do not envy the responsibility her instructor has. I have a hard enough time keeping her in line, I can only imagine how it is dealing with 5 of them. Being stuck with the kids on the side of the road would be a nightmare.
Would it be legal to send the Sugar shuttle to pick up the blazer/guide groups from German Flats???
But isn't this much ado about 'nothing? How often has anyone experienced a situation where they didn't get on a bus because a blazer group cut them in line.
Also, if you are in such a rush to get more skiing in, perhaps slidebrook is not the best idea. When I want to do laps of wood skiing I hit the HG or CR lifts.

This debate is ridiculous. The FCC licensing guy made more sense. All Mountain 7 has no bearing on the Madbus. Paying clients ie: Guided Tours, Balzers etc. receive preferential treatment over non-paying. The Madbus is not totally publicly funded. It is subsidized by the Bush. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I can't take this anymore. If my wife calls, I'll be in the whiskey thread trying to unwind.

HowieT2 wrote:

Also, if you are in such a rush to get more skiing in, perhaps slidebrook is not the best idea. When I want to do laps of wood skiing I hit the HG or CR lifts.

So as an All Mountain 7 Season Pass holder I'm not a paying customer? If the Bush subsidizes the Bus where exactly do you think they get some of their funding to do so? It's all income for the mountain. If my money is not used to help fund the bus (and I mean my season pass money, taxes I pay in the town, etc) and the bus is just for Blazers and Guided Tours then slap a sign on that bad boy that says so and I'm fine with it. Otherwise I don't see how this is a ridiculous argument but I appreciate you "adding" to the conversation. No where in the Blazers description does it say "Private Use of Bus" or "Preferential treatment over other paying second class citizens". Perhaps I missed it though and it's in the fine print. Maybe I just need a whiskey myself.

As for where I ski. I appreciate the tip, but I'm aware of the other woods on the mountain. If I choose to ski the Brook I dedicate a certain amount of time and make that commitment based on several factors. One of which is not will I get pushed aside in line at the bottom and end up waiting an hour to get on the bus. The extra wait time is what I'm concerned with, but I guess my time isn't valuable or count as much as others. That's fine just so long as you tell me ahead of time. It's a perfectly good argument you have.

I don't have kids so I have no idea what it's like to have to wait with a group of 7 year olds on the side of a road. I'll give you that and I'll sympathize with you for just so long. However if you don't think the kids can wait just like everyone else then don't take them back there. Patience is a lesson we all need to learn. If there's a couple kids waiting at the bottom that aren't blazers do they get shoved aside too in place of the "special" privileged kids? Or is it OK for them to have to wait and deal with it like everyone else. As I said I'm all for doing a good deed and letting the kids hop on, but let it be a choice. There's no reason they should barge ahead to the front of the line. I'd put a fair wager on the fact that some of those kids are the same ones who think it's OK to shove to the front of a ski line because they didn't feel like waiting. Nice lesson learned. No one else matters but me.

God do I need some snow right now. (And perhaps I'll join you for a double shot Yard.)

MntMan4Bush wrote:

So as an All Mountain 7 Season Pass holder I'm not a paying customer? If the Bush subsidizes the Bus where exactly do you think they get some of their funding to do so? It's all income for the mountain. If my money is not used to help fund the bus (and I mean my season pass money, taxes I pay in the town, etc) and the bus is just for Blazers and Guided Tours then slap a sign on that bad boy that says so and I'm fine with it. Otherwise I don't see how this is a ridiculous argument but I appreciate you "adding" to the conversation. No where in the Blazers description does it say "Private Use of Bus" or "Preferential treatment over other paying second class citizens". Perhaps I missed it though and it's in the fine print. Maybe I just need a whiskey myself. As for where I ski. I appreciate the tip, but I'm aware of the other woods on the mountain. If I choose to ski the Brook I dedicate a certain amount of time and make that commitment based on several factors. One of which is not will I get pushed aside in line at the bottom and end up waiting an hour to get on the bus. The extra wait time is what I'm concerned with, but I guess my time isn't valuable or count as much as others. That's fine just so long as you tell me ahead of time. It's a perfectly good argument you have. I don't have kids so I have no idea what it's like to have to wait with a group of 7 year olds on the side of a road. I'll give you that and I'll sympathize with you for just so long. However if you don't think the kids can wait just like everyone else then don't take them back there. Patience is a lesson we all need to learn. If there's a couple kids waiting at the bottom that aren't blazers do they get shoved aside too in place of the "special" privileged kids? Or is it OK for them to have to wait and deal with it like everyone else. As I said I'm all for doing a good deed and letting the kids hop on, but let it be a choice. There's no reason they should barge ahead to the front of the line. I'd put a fair wager on the fact that some of those kids are the same ones who think it's OK to shove to the front of a ski line because they didn't feel like waiting. Nice lesson learned. No one else matters but me. God do I need some snow right now. (And perhaps I'll join you for a double shot Yard.)

Agreed, more snow is the sure fire cure all for what ails ya. And well, on the other matter, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. But I wouldn't let that stand in the way of a cocktail or two. It would be a pleasure (Honestly no sarcasm) to have a shot or a beer with you and all the other ranters for that matter. . . . I mean posters. Perhaps, if there is some type of end of the year apres tilt. . . . . (End of the year still being way far away, of course)

MntMan4Bush wrote:

I appreciate that you are being nostalgic about older days. If we just focused on what thing used to be like we'd still be driving a manual transmission ford fairmont station wagon with rusted out sides because it was better then the horse and buggy and listening to cassette tapes because rocking out to AC/DC on tape was so much better then 8-track. Not to bust your chops or anything, but let's not get all caught in "modern" technology such as buses and public transportation. The fact is they're here and we should act with a certain decorum when dealing with them. I think pretty much international standard is first in, first out. (This concept by the way is completely foreign in the Near and Middle East where general pushing and shoving in any line is fully acceptable and in practice. Be warned) In any case I digress. What is being talked about is why does one group get priority over another on a publicly funded bus. If you just came down and couldn't get on the bus it's a negligible difference (you only have to wait 30 minutes), but if you didn't make that bus and got bumped from the next one we're talking a decent amount of time not making turns. Let's forget about the fact that before there were combustible engines people would walk up hill both ways to get their turns in. Now if the argument is that tour groups and Blazers (or any other group for that matter) pays more then what about me? I have an all Mountain 7 Season Pass. I pay at least as much as the blazers do and certainly more then a guided tour at $65 a day. In fact I probably come up well more then the people doing the tour and drop some considerable coin into the CR pub and Timbers. So if we're talking about some people spending more then others we are probably not looking at the whole picture. You can also add in those people who have Sugarbush Condos and in some way subsidize the bus themselves through condo fees, etc. All that being said even though I may spend more then some Joey in a given season it doesn't give me the right to get on the bus ahead of them if they were there first. Now I'm not suggesting we act like animals here. If its a freezing cold day and there's some unhappy kids scampering about it's up to the individuals to make the decision whether it makes sense to be a decent human being or not. Some people might surprise you. It shouldn't be a given though because we all pay in some way and all deserve the privilege of a fair and equal service. That's all just my humble opinion as well. Call it whining if you will, but hey it's my observation. Am I happy to have the bus at all. Sure am, but I'm certainly not happy with certain individuals getting special treatment over others. Everyone should learn patience and common courtesy and practice oith whenever possible.

hehehe, It was not a Ford, but a Dodge Dart And damn that thing was fine in the Tahoe snow. (well with the chains it was fine - and the couch sized back seat...ohhh my). Don't get me wrong, I do understand the frustration of being cut in on by a pack of ruggrats...if you have ever skied in Italy you really get a feeling for it and would think these kids angelic. One year, about a decade back now, one of our group, a Pro-Racer, got so frustrated that he smacked a couple of kids with his pole as they skied across his skis cutting him in line, I thought it was going to be over right there...but they just looked back said a few colorful things and kept on going-the adults in line didn't even bat an eye. I know he felt better but it didn't change a thing.

It sounds like the mountain just needs to put up a sign that spells out the "rules" if you want to call them that. At least that way it is in writing.

jkvt

Yard Sale wrote:

This debate is ridiculous. The FCC licensing guy made more sense. All Mountain 7 has no bearing on the Madbus. Paying clients ie: Guided Tours, Balzers etc. receive preferential treatment over non-paying. The Madbus is not totally publicly funded. It is subsidized by the Bush. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I can't take this anymore. If my wife calls, I'll be in the whiskey thread trying to unwind.

Right on! Bring back the FCC licensing debate! I hear the ice cubes clinking in the Wiskey discussion

"It would be a pleasure (Honestly no sarcasm) to have a shot or a beer with you and all the other ranters for that matter. . . . I mean posters. Perhaps, if there is some type of end of the year apres tilt. . . . . (End of the year still being way far away, of course)"

Perhaps we could check with Tin Woodsman re. whether Castlerock Pub is large enough for this group??

On days when the organized groups plan to hit Slidebrook - especially when its en masse - maybe THEY ought to be courteous enough to arrange their transport. Otherwise they should be prepared to wait like the rest of us.

Sure, if it's -10F I'd make a personal decision as to help a kid out. But I don't think we're debating the exceptional cases here.

IMHO, any instructor or guide taking a group into Slidebrook ought to be prepared to wait their group's turn to board. Otherwsie they should put some of those extra fees they charge to good use & secure their own transport. They like everyone else should recognize that skiing in the backcountry involves, among other things, some planning and patience.

And now, I'll take a double of whatever you're drinking