Since we have a lot of "Armchair Resort Operators" online, I thought I'd throw this thread out there to see what kind of response we got:

Summit Ventures, owners of Sugarbush, come to you to improve or upgrade Sugarbush. You have no real budget limits except to say that the owners want to be able to have their investment(s) help spur more traffic and to pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time (long term investments are fine). Assume that Act 250 will approve of your plans (but don't get too huge now ).

Some examples of improvements include:
*New lifts
*New snowmaking
*New terrain
*New lodges
*New condos/etc.

What would you advise them to do? Why?

Be creative on this glum weather week

Slide brook development with a lift going "upways instead of crossways", for a start.

The terrain pod at North above Inverness that's been discussed.

Interconnect high traverse over to Castlerock.

And tons of thin classic, twisty NE trails and glades that seem to be begging to be cut. Castlerock lift could have about 10 rumble like trails spilling off it.

Sure, snowmaking and grooming improvements, why not.

Condo, lodges....they are already doing that plan.

Perhaps free latte's for every 100,000 in vertical clocked.....

1) New, larger Gate House lodge

2) Integrated skier services building

3) More lodging density in the base area on a piece by piece basis as it can be afforded.

4) Removal of Valley House lodge and extension of existing double chair to the true base. No need to increased capacity here! That lift is under-utilized as it is and those trails can't handle the increased skier traffic unless you install snowmaking, which is a BIG no-no on classics like Mall, Twist, and Moonshine.

5) Installation of chairlift and trails above Inverness where the old liftline is. This would spread out traffic at North and give you a lot of options to play with in terms of aspect. Would also provide a warmer area to ski with sun late into the day.

6) Cat track from Castlerock to North Lynx to provide easier access in case of Gate House closure and to keep people out of crowded base area when their presence isn't necessary there.

7) Holistic glade maintenance program ala MRG. The Paradise woods area is a disgrace. Other areas will need help before long. SB can't afford to effectively outsource the creation and maintenance of old and new lines to unorganized bands of uneducated (in forestry) tree skiers.

Increased frequency of pick ups at Slide Brook road turn off

9) Creation of cross-walk and turn-off across the street from Slide Brook for North-bound skiers

10) Creation of guided tours and official runs from North into Slide Brook basin

11) Installation of low-energy nozzles on all snowguns

12) Removal of snowmaking system bottlenecks through targeted investments in water capacity (full digging out the snowmaking pond if it hasn't been done) and compressed air so as to increase the upper limit of guns running at once to 125 (a completely arbitrary number pulled out of my rear end)

13) More extensive foodservice options in Allyn's Lodge including more healthy options than just waffles, candy bars, and hot dogs

14) A single, narrow, old school run (no snowmaking) from the top of North Lynx down to somewhere on the Castlerock Connector then continuing down into the ravine before traversing hard left back towards Sleeper.

15) Re-clearing of "Low Road" run to skier's left of Straight Shot at North

16) Burn the development office - nothing more needs to be done

....I just can't put my finger on it. Hmmm....um....oh, wait.....I remember now....

....the Lycra-clad liftie chicks, ambassador chicks, ski school chicks,.....

And they should be placed #1 on your list, not #17....



P.S. I though MRG's glades were "granola glades", not holistic ones....

Tin Woodsman wrote:

15) Re-clearing of "Low Road" run to skier's left of Straight Shot at North

Tin-

I'f you look closely, they kinda did do that this past summer. It looks to be much more cleared out than it was last year, although I did ski it last year just fine:) only problem now is the snowmaking building at the bottom of it.


I'd like to see Black Watch trimmed and skiable though..... (at North) I skiied that last year as well, although it was a little hard to follow along the stream towards the bottom:)



As far as the rest of the resort, I'd like to see:

-trails and a couple of low capacity lifts (doubles) in the Slide Brook Basin
-condos/skier services building in the Lincoln Peak area
-more gladed terrain to be developed between Castlerock and North Lynx
-The previously mentioned "above" inverness lift and trail system
-maybe an additional lift/trails above Northway at North
-a larger, more efficient lodge at North
-condos and small village at North base
-a t-bar installed on Snowflake and Cat's Meow just like there used to be waaay back.
-a t-bar starting at the base of Lower FIS into the basin with some new trails/glades accessible by lower FIS or by a few small trails off of Rim Run

dave

Defnitely build a new base lodge at ME!

djspookman wrote:

I'f you look closely, they kinda did do that this past summer. It looks to be much more cleared out than it was last year, although I did ski it last year just fine:) only problem now is the snowmaking building at the bottom of it. I'd like to see Black Watch trimmed and skiable though..... (at North) I skiied that last year as well, although it was a little hard to follow along the stream towards the bottom:)

I hadn't noticed that b/c I haven't skied at North since it went top to bottom in mid December. Regardless, more ways to the base from the bottom of North Ridge would be nice.

Quote:

As far as the rest of the resort, I'd like to see: -trails and a couple of low capacity lifts (doubles) in the Slide Brook Basin -condos/skier services building in the Lincoln Peak area -more gladed terrain to be developed between Castlerock and North Lynx -The previously mentioned "above" inverness lift and trail system -maybe an additional lift/trails above Northway at North -a larger, more efficient lodge at North -condos and small village at North base -a t-bar installed on Snowflake and Cat's Meow just like there used to be waaay back. -a t-bar starting at the base of Lower FIS into the basin with some new trails/glades accessible by lower FIS or by a few small trails off of Rim Run

I left out any development in Slide Brook simply b/c it's 100% unrealistic to expect any lifts and formal trails in there. Also, if you want to get technical, it's not just Act 250 (State of VT) that needs to be satisfied for anything in there, it's the USFS. In short, don't hold your breath.

Also, is the lodge at ME really that crowded that it needs to be replaced? I've never had a problem finding a seat upstairs.

Some of these have will be repeated

1) Lift and trails above Inverness

2) 2nd base lodge w/ housing at the base of lower FIS and a chair up to Glen House

3) I actually do not want to see any lifts in Slidebrook but more bus pick-ups.

4) An Olympic size pool re-built at South close to the Village to bring back the year round use and festive atmosphere of the past when it was there. And open to all.

NOW FOR THE BIG DREAM

5) A lift off the back of North and South so we can ski the west facing slopes. A lodge at the North end so that we can claim to be minutes away from the airport.

6) Continuation of buildings shops and housing to connect the Village to Claybrook

7) A local police force that has a better attitude then the sheriffs. That would watch over our property not just their pockets paid by tickets and DWI's

Turn the dug out snowmaking pond (which needs to be done) into a useable swimable lake.

9) Bike path paved from Waitsfield to Warren then up Access RD along the river (a lot less pitch and more beautiful) to South then across to Sugarbush and back to town. With a loop up to Mad River.

Tin Woodsman wrote:

djspookman wrote: I'f you look closely, they kinda did do that this past summer. It looks to be much more cleared out than it was last year, although I did ski it last year just fine:) only problem now is the snowmaking building at the bottom of it. I'd like to see Black Watch trimmed and skiable though..... (at North) I skiied that last year as well, although it was a little hard to follow along the stream towards the bottom:) I hadn't noticed that b/c I haven't skied at North since it went top to bottom in mid December. Regardless, more ways to the base from the bottom of North Ridge would be nice. Well that's actually Black Watch if you look at the old maps. Low Road starts about halfway down Straight Shot, and that's the one that looks somewhat cleared Quote: As far as the rest of the resort, I'd like to see: -trails and a couple of low capacity lifts (doubles) in the Slide Brook Basin -condos/skier services building in the Lincoln Peak area -more gladed terrain to be developed between Castlerock and North Lynx -The previously mentioned "above" inverness lift and trail system -maybe an additional lift/trails above Northway at North -a larger, more efficient lodge at North -condos and small village at North base -a t-bar installed on Snowflake and Cat's Meow just like there used to be waaay back. -a t-bar starting at the base of Lower FIS into the basin with some new trails/glades accessible by lower FIS or by a few small trails off of Rim Run I left out any development in Slide Brook simply b/c it's 100% unrealistic to expect any lifts and formal trails in there. Also, if you want to get technical, it's not just Act 250 (State of VT) that needs to be satisfied for anything in there, it's the USFS. In short, don't hold your breath. Also, is the lodge at ME really that crowded that it needs to be replaced? I've never had a problem finding a seat upstairs.

per Slide Brook-hey, a man can dream can't he??!!

As for the lodge, ever seen me dragging my friend in a wheelchair (he's a sit skiier) up the stairs so he can watch the game after skiing? (or have a seat for lunch?) That building is so out of code its not funny and honestly it would be cheaper in the long run to build a new building right than retrofit it. Heck, they're going to some day, its in the plans (according to Hardy)

Dave

I agree with most all of the previous suggestions. Here are my few suggestions:

1) New High Speed Lift (of some sort) for Heavens Gate. That lift is one of the slowest on the mountain that services some of the best terrain on the mountain. That is also one of the coldest rides on the mountain and they need to shorten that ride signfiicantly.

2) New, larger lodge to replace Glen House at North. I know there's not a lot of room at that location on the mountain for a large lodge but Glen House is tiny and is very outdated. Especially since North is open early/late season, they need more capacity there. Early in the season when you have to download on the GMX, it sucks to have to download in order to eat lunch if Glen House is packed.

3) Install a new lift between North Lynx and Castlerock. It looks like there's some great unexploited terrain in there. I know this will never happen but a guy can dream, can't he? Someone else suggested more gladed runs in this area. That would be fine too but a lift with some Castlerock-like runs would be better.

4) Expand food service operations and offerings at Allyn's Lodge (as someone already suggested). This is one of the most underutilized lodges at the entire resort. I would much rather eat lunch there if there were significant offerings, including beer, than ski down to Gatehouse Lodge all the time to eat.

5) More gladed runs between Paradise and Castlerock (near the Church) coming from both Paradise and Castlerock.

6) Expand Inverness to skier's left of Brambles, if terrain is suitable. I'm not sure whether the terrain would be any good but that seems like a whole underdeveloped part of the mountain. I agree with installing the lift above Inverness as others have mentioned but they should do more there.

Listen, I realize most of my suggestions are crazy and will never happen but I thought that was part of the purpose of this thread. Brainstorm some ideas (many of which will never happen) to see what interesting concepts emerge.

djspookman wrote:

Well that's actually Black Watch if you look at the old maps. Low Road starts about halfway down Straight Shot, and that's the one that looks somewhat cleared

I dunno spook, I'm looking at my old maps and it doesn't seem that Black Watch went any lower than the current Which Way... it seems to end just across from where the start of today's Crackerjack and the slide brook terminus are... what are you using for evidence??

Treeskier wrote:

NOW FOR THE BIG DREAM 5) A lift off the back of North and South so we can ski the west facing slopes. A lodge at the North end so that we can claim to be minutes away from the airport.

....I thought hallucinagenics were outlawed in this thread......

Tin Woodsman wrote:

djspookman wrote: I'f you look closely, they kinda did do that this past summer. It looks to be much more cleared out than it was last year, although I did ski it last year just fine:) only problem now is the snowmaking building at the bottom of it. I'd like to see Black Watch trimmed and skiable though..... (at North) I skiied that last year as well, although it was a little hard to follow along the stream towards the bottom:) I hadn't noticed that b/c I haven't skied at North since it went top to bottom in mid December. Regardless, more ways to the base from the bottom of North Ridge would be nice. Quote: As far as the rest of the resort, I'd like to see: -trails and a couple of low capacity lifts (doubles) in the Slide Brook Basin -condos/skier services building in the Lincoln Peak area -more gladed terrain to be developed between Castlerock and North Lynx -The previously mentioned "above" inverness lift and trail system -maybe an additional lift/trails above Northway at North -a larger, more efficient lodge at North -condos and small village at North base -a t-bar installed on Snowflake and Cat's Meow just like there used to be waaay back. -a t-bar starting at the base of Lower FIS into the basin with some new trails/glades accessible by lower FIS or by a few small trails off of Rim Run I left out any development in Slide Brook simply b/c it's 100% unrealistic to expect any lifts and formal trails in there. Also, if you want to get technical, it's not just Act 250 (State of VT) that needs to be satisfied for anything in there, it's the USFS. In short, don't hold your breath. Also, is the lodge at ME really that crowded that it needs to be replaced? I've never had a problem finding a seat upstairs.

Regarding ME base lodge:

I think the lodge is pretty crowded. Especially if you are there on a Sat. Especialy the Bar area. Also, ME base loge is very old. Last year on several occasions there were plumbing issues (pipes bursting no h20, etc.) Also if they are going to continue to run the Vermont Adaptive Snow Sports clinic at ME,
the handicap accessibility must be improved. IMHO the handicap accessability is a joke!

Oh yeah, I never did my Sim Sugarbush...

Trails above Inverness
Snowflake Poma lift (what did they do with the old one from South? Should be there...)
New Heaven's Gate, Summit at North, both really crucial for tourist impressions...
New Inverness chair, it's painful to ride that thing because I could take 3 runs on GMX in the time I'm on one liftride...
New Village Chair - really crucial for beginners. The speed doesn't even have to increase that much, it would just be nice to be riding a lift that doesn't look like it's going to collapse at any moment...
Terrain in the basin between Gatehouse and Castlerock... whichever brook that is, would be off Castlerock Connection... yes, there is a good sized waterway in there, but you could have some really cool terrain on the sides of the gully...

And then of course my Sugarbush Master Plan Dream Thing...

Development of one big ski area from Lincoln to App Gaps... Sugarbush acquires MRG and develops an area bigger than Killington, all along Lincoln Mountain... the Whistler of the East...

New Base areas on Lincoln Gap Road, West Hill Road, Slide Brook Road, somewhere in the Big Basin... terrain development in the South-facing Mt. Abe basin, the narrowish basin between Lincoln Peak and Mt. Abe, Slide Brook, the entire south facing-ridge between MRG and Mt. Ellen, and Big Basin...

Now THAT would be a ski area...

Re: Black Watch - from the old trial maps I've seen, Black Watch did start pretty much where the base of North Ridge is today.

As for high speed lifts, while I agree on Inverness, I think the suggestions for high speed lifts to the summits are ill-advised. As it is now, people bitch and moan about how often those lifts are on wind hold. The problem would be twice as bad with a detatchable lift up there.

Also, any terrain between Castlerock and North Lynx would have to be designed carefully. That area faces almost due South, so you'd have to have narrow, windy trails and glades only.