Treehugger wrote:

OK, the Tavern closed because the last owner wouldn't step up and make things right between himself, the State Police nazi who was the Barracks Commander at the time, and the liquor board. But this also shows the how the town has no vision because they let the cops harass the public until every liquor license holder was affected. That was more than a year after State police told the town they wanted Tavern closed. The same commander tried the same tactics at the Williamstown Music Club, and within a month, the Williamstown Selectboard told the cops to go away! Williamstown doesn't even have a tourist industry to protect. Gags and egans didn't trade places. Gags closed and never returned. S'bush would not close the Tooth if it was packed like 10 years ago. I was out touring the town last saturday night, and nobody had much of a crowd. Total capacity of MMT, Gags, Tooth, and Hyde is around 1000. Those 4 places would all be full on a decent saturday. Now we have Smokehouse, Phoenix and Hyde. Half the capacity, and nobody full. So, yes, the appeal is becoming much more selective.

The last owner of the Tavern/LocalfolkSmokehouse? When did John sell? As far as I know it has been the same owner for the last decade or more. And he did try and work things out with the police, but right for the commander at that time was to close down and the Waitsfield SB pussied out because they were told by the State Police that if they didn't support them they would be supporting drunk driving.

I agree The Valley got a bad rap for partying, even a write up in Skiing that said stay away fi you don't want to be pulled over. That had to hurt tourism.

jkvt

madhavok wrote:

Tin you and I both know the only tax burden is on out of staters so how does that have anything to do with what the local income is?

That is the kind of ignorant statement that show a lack of understanding. Second home owners and an influx of first home owners from other areas drive up the price of homes and real estate and hence the tax rate. The result is that this drives people from their homes because salaries do not rise at the same rate. As a result families that have been here for generations are being driven from their homes so that second homeowners can have a nice place to come and spend. I have absolutely no sympathy for someone complaining about the taxes on their second or third homes when natives/locals are being driven from their homes. I do think that second homeowners should have a voice on a local level politically, perhaps that would better incorporate them into local life and give them a chance to see their neighbors and how they are being effected.

That said I love that we are a mecca for second homeowners and people from across the country and world, but we have to find a way to balance things out. Looking at local businesses that can't keep employees because they can not afford to pay them enough to live in the area, or enough to make the drive here worth while. So some affordable housing is a great option. I think the area should look at Aspen as a model. They did a great job providing locals with stable property values so they have a good base of people who can live where they work. The mountain realized that if they did not provide housing for workers at a rate they could afford then the glitteratti would be loading themselves onto chairs to ski an ungroomed or maintained runs.

jkvt

jkvt wrote:

The last owner of the Tavern/LocalfolkSmokehouse? When did John sell? As far as I know it has been the same owner for the last decade or more. jkvt

Pretty close. John leased it to someone with an exceptionally poor business acumen- and I can't remember his name. A local restaurateur and I met with him to try and counsel him on the impact his business practice choices were having on the overall restaurant/nightlife climate. He was not particularly interested in our effort. Once he gave up his battle/was closed, John stepped back in, reorganized and has done pretty well as Localfolks Smokehouse.

madhavok wrote:

Tin you and I both know the only tax burden is on out of staters so how does that have anything to do with what the local income is?

I don't think that's exactly true. I thought there was a higher tax burden on "gold towns" and a still higher rate for second homeowners in those towns. Regardless, second homes are a huge driver of the market in the MRV and have an impact on real estate values in general. The restrivtive development policies of the MRV commuinities don't help this issue. As prices escalate, so do property taxes, even if the mill rate remains unchanged. So, yes, property values and the associated taxes are moving upwards MUCH faster than incomes of local residents.

noski wrote:

jkvt wrote: The last owner of the Tavern/LocalfolkSmokehouse? When did John sell? As far as I know it has been the same owner for the last decade or more. jkvt Pretty close. John leased it to someone with an exceptionally poor business acumen- and I can't remember his name. A local restaurateur and I met with him to try and counsel him on the impact his business practice choices were having on the overall restaurant/nightlife climate. He was not particularly interested in our effort. Once he gave up his battle/was closed, John stepped back in, reorganized and has done pretty well as Localfolks Smokehouse.

His name was Doug. He bought the MMT business and name. John leased him the space. After Doug got shut down he failed to make payments on the business and lease. When Doug first started, the empoyees called him Uncle Doug, near the end they called him Uncle DUMB.

Plowboy wrote:

noski wrote: jkvt wrote: The last owner of the Tavern/LocalfolkSmokehouse? When did John sell? As far as I know it has been the same owner for the last decade or more. jkvt Pretty close. John leased it to someone with an exceptionally poor business acumen- and I can't remember his name. A local restaurateur and I met with him to try and counsel him on the impact his business practice choices were having on the overall restaurant/nightlife climate. He was not particularly interested in our effort. Once he gave up his battle/was closed, John stepped back in, reorganized and has done pretty well as Localfolks Smokehouse. His name was Doug. He bought the MMT business and name. John leased him the space. After Doug got shut down he failed to make payments on the business and lease. When Doug first started, the empoyees called him Uncle Doug, near the end they called him Uncle DUMB.

Ohh yeah I remember him...drinking on the job...among othere things...he lasted so short a time that I had forgotten him.

jkvt

While everything you guys are saying is basically true the prices of real estate here doesn't come close to many of the other ski towns like Stowe, Manchester(maybe not a ski town but a tourist town, for sure) or Ludlow and certainly not even close to places out west like Aspen, Jackson, Ketchem, Telluride, Vail et al. According to my neighbor who has been a real estate broker in the valley for over 30 years the second home prices have not raised the prices of real estate prices in the valley much at all....yet. Some of the low end small condos at LP have gone up but the others not so much.

The real estate market in the valley has been pretty sedentary for alot of years and you can still find a decent house for 250k-300k. In Jackson or Aspen that same house would be well over a million. In Stowe or Manchester it would be 400k.

Didn't the guy who bought the MMT own a bar in the Burlington area and ran into problems with law enforcement there as well before he came to the valley? That's why law enforcement here were keying on him?

ski_resort_observer wrote:

Didn't the guy who bought the MMT own a bar in the Burlington area and ran into problems with law enforcement there as well before he came to the valley? That's why law enforcement here were keying on him?

No, that guy looked into it, but did't go for it. Doug was a K-mart skier from Jersey with a second home in Pittsfield and a dream of having a club.